The Gun Thread

[hornetguy]

good info, thanks, I purchased a 9mm from an officer who used it as a back up, he chose Speer Gold Dot ammo, this was a while back before the current generation of rounds and Speer Gold Dot was well regarded for expanding well under various situations.

From what I've read online, Gold Dot is still considered one of the best SD rounds. It's also, like most of them, expensive...

I found some PPU ammo at Cabela's once, that was 147gr HP ammo, for just under $20 for a 50 round box. I bought a couple of them. I'm sure those HP's are not as good as the "premium" rounds like Gold Dot, or Fed HST's, but, for me, they would be more than adequate. Certainly not "the best", but way better than FMJ ammo.

 

[mailmandan]

From what I've read online, Gold Dot is still considered one of the best SD rounds. It's also, like most of them, expensive...

I found some PPU ammo at Cabela's once, that was 147gr HP ammo, for just under $20 for a 50 round box. I bought a couple of them. I'm sure those HP's are not as good as the "premium" rounds like Gold Dot, or Fed HST's, but, for me, they would be more than adequate. Certainly not "the best", but way better than FMJ ammo.

There is a pawn shop near me that sells guns and ammo and I noticed they carry 124 grain hollow points for a reasonable price. I believe they were Fed HST's. I had previously purchased a box of 50 115 grain Blazer Brass rounds there for between $10-$11 a box. Do most of the hollow point home defense rounds have brass casings? I was told that the 9mm Hornady HP Critical Defense rounds I bought were nickel plated brass. The casings look silver.

 

[mailmandan]

There is a pawn shop near me that sells guns and ammo and I noticed they carry 124 grain hollow points for a reasonable price. I believe they were Fed HST's. I had previously purchased a box of 50 115 grain Blazer Brass rounds there for between $10-$11 a box. Do most of the hollow point home defense rounds have brass casings? I was told that the 9mm Hornady HP Critical Defense rounds I bought were nickel plated brass. The casings look silver.

After double checking with the pawn shop, it turns out the 124 grain HP ammo there is Sig Sauer. $12 for a box of 20. It’s way more expensive than that at Bass Pro Shop! I’ve checked out so many different kinds of ammo at so many different places that I’m getting them mixed up. At my local Walmart, all they had in HP home defense 9mm ammo was 147 grain.

 

[hornetguy]

After double checking with the pawn shop, it turns out the 124 grain HP ammo there is Sig Sauer. $12 for a box of 20. It’s way more expensive than that at Bass Pro Shop! I’ve checked out so many different kinds of ammo at so many different places that I’m getting them mixed up. At my local Walmart, all they had in HP home defense 9mm ammo was 147 grain.

$12 for 20 rounds for "premium" SD ammo is a good price. You might google to see if anyone has done any ballistic gel testing with the Sig ammo, but I imagine it is probably as good as any, and better than most.

I would just recommend shooting a box or so through your pistol, to make sure there are no feeding/ejecting issues.

And, it seems that most of the premium SD ammo uses nickel plated brass casings. Supposedly because brass can tarnish, but nickel plated doesn't.

Or, because it looks cool.... ?

 

[hornetguy]

I just watched a video on the Sig ammo in gelatin... shooting through two layers of denim into gel (standard FBI test), there was 14" of penetration (perfect) and expansion of approx. .67". It was also shot without the denim (which can sort of clog the HP, inhibiting expansion) and it expanded more rapidly to about .8" or so... which really cut down on the penetration. It only penetrated about 7" or so.

All in all, that Sig ammo looks like it would be excellent for SD.

$14.99 a box at Cabela's.....

 

[shittim]

just "pulled the trigger" on a S&W Model 19.

 

[shittim]

last year for the fp on the hammer.

 

[EarnestQ]

just "pulled the trigger" on a S&W Model 19.

Congrats...

 

[hornetguy]

wow.... way to go! Model 19's are slick, slick. Post pics!

 

[shittim]

From what I read , in his 80's, Bill Jordan could still put a ping-pong ball on his right hand, through a 1" wood block with his left, draw and shoot the block, getting the ping pong ball to drop in the holster.
He had a lot of influence in the design of the Model 19, or so I have heard.
A dear friend had one as a back up in Vietnam. Have heard of two breaking at the forcing cones from continued heavy magnums, yet I read so much that decries that tendency

 

[mailmandan]

I just watched a video on the Sig ammo in gelatin... shooting through two layers of denim into gel (standard FBI test), there was 14" of penetration (perfect) and expansion of approx. .67". It was also shot without the denim (which can sort of clog the HP, inhibiting expansion) and it expanded more rapidly to about .8" or so... which really cut down on the penetration. It only penetrated about 7" or so.

All in all, that Sig ammo looks like it would be excellent for SD.

$14.99 a box at Cabela's.....

I may go a head and pick up a box.

 

[mailmandan]

I just watched a video on the Sig ammo in gelatin... shooting through two layers of denim into gel (standard FBI test), there was 14" of penetration (perfect) and expansion of approx. .67". It was also shot without the denim (which can sort of clog the HP, inhibiting expansion) and it expanded more rapidly to about .8" or so... which really cut down on the penetration. It only penetrated about 7" or so.

All in all, that Sig ammo looks like it would be excellent for SD.

$14.99 a box at Cabela's.....

Do you have the link to that video? I found some videos for various HP self defense ammo. - Best 9mm Ammo Review 2018 for Self-Defense/Range Shooting | Epic Wilderness

 

[hornetguy]

Do you have the link to that video? I found some videos for various HP self defense ammo. - Best 9mm Ammo Review 2018 for Self-Defense/Range Shooting | Epic Wilderness

this is the one I watched....


[video=youtube;6Lr23j0Vx6g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lr23j0Vx6g[/video]

Definitely not the most "thorough" test of the ammo, but it gives a pretty good idea of what to expect. I was impressed with the performance.

 

[mailmandan]

this is the one I watched....

[video=youtube;6Lr23j0Vx6g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lr23j0Vx6g[/video]

Definitely not the most "thorough" test of the ammo, but it gives a pretty good idea of what to expect. I was impressed with the performance.

Thanks! Interesting test. That ammo was said to be $22.50 online price, yet at Cabela's it's $14.99 a box and at a local pawn shop near me it's only $12.99 a box. I find it strange that ammo is cheap at that pawn shop, but their handguns are high priced compared to others.

 

[hornetguy]

From what I read , in his 80's, Bill Jordan could still put a ping-pong ball on his right hand, through a 1" wood block with his left, draw and shoot the block, getting the ping pong ball to drop in the holster.
He had a lot of influence in the design of the Model 19, or so I have heard.
A dear friend had one as a back up in Vietnam. Have heard of two breaking at the forcing cones from continued heavy magnums, yet I read so much that decries that tendency

I would love to find a video of Bill Jordan going through his shooting demonstration. His skills were on the edge of unbelievable... much like Jerry Miculek's speed/accuracy is.

I understand Jordan used wax bullet loads for many of his shooting "stunts", for safety's sake (don't want to perforate any crowd members ).... but he would draw and point shoot aspirin tablets.... fast....

He was also a rather large individual.... I saw a pic once in a gun magazine article by Skeeter Skelton where Jordan was holding a quarter in the palm of his hand. It looked like a dime would look in my hand. Big guy.

this is a pic of him beside some guy demonstrating the "FBI crouch" shooting style.

 

[hornetguy]

Thanks! Interesting test. That ammo was said to be $22.50 online price, yet at Cabela's it's $14.99 a box and at a local pawn shop near me they are only $12.99 a box. I find it strange that ammo is cheap at that pawn shop, but their handguns are high priced compared to others.

Yes, that is backwards to what usually happens. I'd buy several boxes at $12.99 .....

 

[mailmandan]

I was checking out ammo on the Cabela's website and noticed that Speer Gold Dot ammo is said to be:

Speer Gold Dot® Pistol Ammunition
[TABLE]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

• • *Preferred by law enforcement*
  • Engineered to prevent jacket separation
  • Optimal expansion and penetration
  • Decisive terminal performance
  • Superior weight retention
  • Reliable function and feeding

 

[shittim]

sounds ,like it has a lot going for it.

 

[hornetguy]

I was checking out ammo on the Cabela's website and noticed that Speer Gold Dot ammo is said to be:

Speer Gold Dot® Pistol Ammunition
[TABLE]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

• • *Preferred by law enforcement*
  • Engineered to prevent jacket separation
  • Optimal expansion and penetration
  • Decisive terminal performance
  • Superior weight retention
  • Reliable function and feeding

YIKES! ... and, they are just about a buck apiece.... goodness.

This sort of illustrates what I was talking about in the selection of ammo.... there are so many GOOD self defense rounds available now, that I'm not sure that it makes a huge difference for the average citizen which one they choose. There are probably at least 7 or 8 loads that would be pretty much equally effective....

Personally, I would just find one that I could regularly find at a reasonable price, that functioned flawlessly in my pistol, and stock up on it, and be done with it.

I think we can "second-guess" ourselves to death over something like this.... I've had friends argue for DAYS over which is better... the .270 or the .30-06.... when in reality... real life situations, there's not a nickel's worth of difference in terminal performance.

Interesting mental exercises, but that's about all they are....

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, that is backwards to what usually happens. I'd buy several boxes at $12.99 .....

After talking to a guy who works at the pawn shop, that price is temporary and will rise to $14.99 a box soon. He said the Blazer Brass ammo will also go up soon from $10.99 a box to $12.99 a box. I better jump soon on the Sig ammo!