Rapture teaching history
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I've never read anything by any of those you mentioned above. My understanding of the gathering of the church comes directly from scripture. When you compare and cross-reference all scriptures related to this subject, they you can come to a right conclusion. But, if you symbolize, spiritualize or misapply these events, then everything will be in error from then on.
One of the biggest errors made by expositors is not recognizing the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events. Regarding this, it is imperative to understand this in order to apply the correct scriptures to the appropriate event.
Another error made is not thoroughly understanding what the wrath of God entails. The church will be removed because Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve and thereby satisfying it. Believers in Christ have been reconciled to God and have been credited with righteousness and therefore, we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. It is only for those who have continued to reject Christ and continue living according to the sinful nature, that this wrath is coming.
Another common error is not recognizing that there is a difference between common trials and tribulation that Jesus said all believers would experience vs. God's coming wrath. Common trial and tribulation comes at the hands of men and the powers of darkness, where God's wrath will be unprecedented and will come directly from God with purpose.
One of the biggest errors made by expositors is not recognizing the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events. Regarding this, it is imperative to understand this in order to apply the correct scriptures to the appropriate event.
Another error made is not thoroughly understanding what the wrath of God entails. The church will be removed because Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve and thereby satisfying it. Believers in Christ have been reconciled to God and have been credited with righteousness and therefore, we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. It is only for those who have continued to reject Christ and continue living according to the sinful nature, that this wrath is coming.
Another common error is not recognizing that there is a difference between common trials and tribulation that Jesus said all believers would experience vs. God's coming wrath. Common trial and tribulation comes at the hands of men and the powers of darkness, where God's wrath will be unprecedented and will come directly from God with purpose.
Hello Ahwatukee,
One need not have to read the persons who propagated this teaching to be in its midst. Your teachings are highly influenced by their teachings whether you want to believe it or not. All of our teachings are, none of us are mavericks.
Also, for the record very few get all their teachings directly from the Scriptures alone on their own personal study. Many allude to this and attempt to paint themselves as such, but it is a misnomer. I thing, humanly, we wish to propagate our own spirituality and appear to have direct revelation from God when the fact remains what we arrive at has been taught for centuries (for the most part). Of course there are those who appear that come up with totally bizarre teachings that are remarkably heretical.
Note Ephesians 4:11ff, you and I are directly influenced by those we listen to and it affects what we believe. At timess we do arrive at different beliefs along the road as we mature, so our teachings may change over time, I know mine have. I too was of the 'Scofield camp' not having read his works directly, but those who taught me had been lead along by others who passed these things down. They too were probably unaware of how they really arrived at these conclusions thinking they did so by personal study without outside influence.
Take this for instance brother. Today, many are teaching the errors of Charles G. Finney, Robert Sandeman, Zane Hodges, Lewis Sperry Chafer, varied teachings from DTS &c. For example, not to derail this thread, and only to serve as to qualify my statement these false teachings center around; 1) Decisional Regeneration; 2) Free Grace Theology (a system of theology); 3) The false dichotomy of believer/disciple; 4) Believism, which became Easy-believeism vs. the true Gospel (derogatorily labelled 'Lordship Salvation'). Also, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones lamented and decried what he coined 'believism' in the church, all a by-product of the aforementioned false teachers. This has now become easy-believeism which is coupled with antinomianism. It has done much damage to the body of Christ.
Briefly, two Books arrived on the scene that taught both sides of this, one being 'The Gospel According to Jesus' by John MacArthur and 'The Grace Awakening' by Chuck Swindoll. The major reason that John MacArthur's work was belligerently attacked showed the deep issue of the church departing from sound doctrine. His book merely crystallized what the church had believed concerning the true Gospel, and people became up in arms when confronted with a non-truncated pure Gospel. Swindoll's book helped to crystallize the common notion that a person can live however they wish, as long as they made a decision to follow Christ, they are still going to heaven. Whether this was the intention of the book, I do not know, yet this is how many take the teachings therein. one last thing on this, and I believe this is where the misunderstanding begins; too many conflate evidence of conversion with a works gospel, and too many today mock the notion of self-examination.
That's a broad-brushed generalization and rarely are these ever true. I believe the book of Revelation to be highly symbolic. Attempting to make symbolic references into purely literal interpretations is a huge problem. Surely you see events in prophecy as being symbolic, correct? Or, are each and every picture drawn in Scripture all to be taken in a pure and only literal manner?
By the way, the Lord will be returning, that is a guarantee!
One need not have to read the persons who propagated this teaching to be in its midst. Your teachings are highly influenced by their teachings whether you want to believe it or not. All of our teachings are, none of us are mavericks.
Also, for the record very few get all their teachings directly from the Scriptures alone on their own personal study. Many allude to this and attempt to paint themselves as such, but it is a misnomer. I thing, humanly, we wish to propagate our own spirituality and appear to have direct revelation from God when the fact remains what we arrive at has been taught for centuries (for the most part). Of course there are those who appear that come up with totally bizarre teachings that are remarkably heretical.
Note Ephesians 4:11ff, you and I are directly influenced by those we listen to and it affects what we believe. At timess we do arrive at different beliefs along the road as we mature, so our teachings may change over time, I know mine have. I too was of the 'Scofield camp' not having read his works directly, but those who taught me had been lead along by others who passed these things down. They too were probably unaware of how they really arrived at these conclusions thinking they did so by personal study without outside influence.
Take this for instance brother. Today, many are teaching the errors of Charles G. Finney, Robert Sandeman, Zane Hodges, Lewis Sperry Chafer, varied teachings from DTS &c. For example, not to derail this thread, and only to serve as to qualify my statement these false teachings center around; 1) Decisional Regeneration; 2) Free Grace Theology (a system of theology); 3) The false dichotomy of believer/disciple; 4) Believism, which became Easy-believeism vs. the true Gospel (derogatorily labelled 'Lordship Salvation'). Also, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones lamented and decried what he coined 'believism' in the church, all a by-product of the aforementioned false teachers. This has now become easy-believeism which is coupled with antinomianism. It has done much damage to the body of Christ.
Briefly, two Books arrived on the scene that taught both sides of this, one being 'The Gospel According to Jesus' by John MacArthur and 'The Grace Awakening' by Chuck Swindoll. The major reason that John MacArthur's work was belligerently attacked showed the deep issue of the church departing from sound doctrine. His book merely crystallized what the church had believed concerning the true Gospel, and people became up in arms when confronted with a non-truncated pure Gospel. Swindoll's book helped to crystallize the common notion that a person can live however they wish, as long as they made a decision to follow Christ, they are still going to heaven. Whether this was the intention of the book, I do not know, yet this is how many take the teachings therein. one last thing on this, and I believe this is where the misunderstanding begins; too many conflate evidence of conversion with a works gospel, and too many today mock the notion of self-examination.
That's a broad-brushed generalization and rarely are these ever true. I believe the book of Revelation to be highly symbolic. Attempting to make symbolic references into purely literal interpretations is a huge problem. Surely you see events in prophecy as being symbolic, correct? Or, are each and every picture drawn in Scripture all to be taken in a pure and only literal manner?
By the way, the Lord will be returning, that is a guarantee!
The Church Fathers taught all sorts of things but that doesn't make them right in every instance. In any case what did they define as ''The Rapture'' The main dispute concerns the timing of the Rapture not whether anyone taught a pre tribulation variety of it. Did the Church fathers believe in a second and third coming of Christ as opposed to one single event. If the early church believed why is their no mention of their belief in the writings of Darby and Scofield?
One of the earliest accounts of Christian belief and practice outside the NT is the Didache which is mentioned by Eusibius and copies of which were discovered in the 19th Century. It is believed by some to be earlier than some of the NT itself In the second part known as the Church Manual mention is made of the last days, the Antichrist and the second coming. What is NOT in it is any mention of a Pre Trib Rapture or some secret coming of Christ
The Didache Part 2 A Church Manual section 16
Be watchful over your life, never let your lamps go out, or your loins be ungirt,but keep yourselves always in readiness
for you can never be sure of the hour when our Lord may be coming. Come often together for spiritual improvement,because all the past years of your faith will be no good to you at the end, unless you have made yourselves perfect.
In the last days of the world false prophets and deceivers will abound, sheep will be perverted and turn into wolves and love will change to hate, for with the growth of lawlessness men will begin to hate their fellows and persecute them and betray them. Then the deceiver of the world will show himself,pretending to be a Son of God and doing signs and wonders and the earth will be delivered into his hands, and he will work such wickedness as there has never been since the beginning. After that all all humankind will come up for their fiery trial, multitudes of them will stumble and perish, but such as remain steadfast in the faith will be saved by the curse*.
And then the signs of the truth will appear first the sign of the opening heavens, next the sign of the trumpets voiced and thirdly the rising of the dead - not all the dead but as it says the Lord himself will come and with him all his holy ones. And then the whole world will see the Lord as he comes riding on the clouds of heaven.
* This is an obscure saying which may be a reference to Christ being made a curse for us
The Didache Part 2 A Church Manual section 16
Be watchful over your life, never let your lamps go out, or your loins be ungirt,but keep yourselves always in readiness
for you can never be sure of the hour when our Lord may be coming. Come often together for spiritual improvement,because all the past years of your faith will be no good to you at the end, unless you have made yourselves perfect.
In the last days of the world false prophets and deceivers will abound, sheep will be perverted and turn into wolves and love will change to hate, for with the growth of lawlessness men will begin to hate their fellows and persecute them and betray them. Then the deceiver of the world will show himself,pretending to be a Son of God and doing signs and wonders and the earth will be delivered into his hands, and he will work such wickedness as there has never been since the beginning. After that all all humankind will come up for their fiery trial, multitudes of them will stumble and perish, but such as remain steadfast in the faith will be saved by the curse*.
And then the signs of the truth will appear first the sign of the opening heavens, next the sign of the trumpets voiced and thirdly the rising of the dead - not all the dead but as it says the Lord himself will come and with him all his holy ones. And then the whole world will see the Lord as he comes riding on the clouds of heaven.
* This is an obscure saying which may be a reference to Christ being made a curse for us
Y
Why do pre-trib believers defend their positions so strongly? Is it because they think they are right, or because they are scared that they are going to have to suffer like the rest of us and be sorted?
Personally, I really couldn't care less when the rapture happens. I won't live long enough to see it. Whatever. I'm just curious why the believers are so adamant about their position. It seems a silly thing to get so worked up over. Either you're going to go to heaven or not. If you get swept away beforehand or have to go through the sewer like the rest of us, what does it matter? Are you scared? Is it fear that drives your beliefs?
Personally, I really couldn't care less when the rapture happens. I won't live long enough to see it. Whatever. I'm just curious why the believers are so adamant about their position. It seems a silly thing to get so worked up over. Either you're going to go to heaven or not. If you get swept away beforehand or have to go through the sewer like the rest of us, what does it matter? Are you scared? Is it fear that drives your beliefs?
Hello Yahweh_is_gracious,
First of all, the Lord warns all believers to watch and be ready, for his return to gather the church will be "like a thief in the night." A thief works under the cover of stealth. He doesn't want anyone to know that he is there. He wants to take his goods and disappear into the night without being detected. This is how it will be when the Lord comes to gather the church.
The description of the living being gathered states the following:
"We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."
That word "flash" is a translation of the Greek word "atomos" defined as (A "not" - tomos "to cut") - properly, not able to cut because too small to be measured. That is how quickly the resurrection and catching away of the living in Christ will be. The Lord will appear like a thief in the night (undetected) and gather his church in a nano second.
In opposition to this, when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, scripture states that "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him."
There were some false teachers in Thessalonica teaching that the resurrection had already taken place, which prompted them to write to Paul. In his response he writes back to them and says:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come."
The reason for the Thessalonians concern was that, Paul had previously taught them that when the Lord appeared the dead would rise first, followed by the living believers being changed and caught up together with them, with the wrath of God following the gathering of the church. Therefore, their concern was, "Hey Paul, if these guys are saying that the resurrection has already come, why are we still here? Why haven't we been transformed and caught up?" They were also concerned because they knew that after the resurrection and catching away, that the wrath of God would follow. Paul of course reassures them that it has not yet taken place and to not become easily unsettled or alarmed by that teaching.
After Paul gave a detailed account of the resurrection and catching away of the dead and living in Christ, he then said for all believers to comfort each other with those words. In writing to Titus Paul refers to the Lord's appearing and our being gathered to Him as "the blessed hope."
All of that said, we should have the same attitude that the Thessalonians had. We should also be longing for the Lord's appearing to gather us. After we are gathered, then comes the wrath of God. If the church is to be gathered after God,s wrath upon the whole earth, how could the Lord's appearing be a blessed hope? How could we comfort one another with His promise to gather us if we must first to go through his wrath?
"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!'"
First of all, the Lord warns all believers to watch and be ready, for his return to gather the church will be "like a thief in the night." A thief works under the cover of stealth. He doesn't want anyone to know that he is there. He wants to take his goods and disappear into the night without being detected. This is how it will be when the Lord comes to gather the church.
The description of the living being gathered states the following:
"We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."
That word "flash" is a translation of the Greek word "atomos" defined as (A "not" - tomos "to cut") - properly, not able to cut because too small to be measured. That is how quickly the resurrection and catching away of the living in Christ will be. The Lord will appear like a thief in the night (undetected) and gather his church in a nano second.
In opposition to this, when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, scripture states that "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him."
There were some false teachers in Thessalonica teaching that the resurrection had already taken place, which prompted them to write to Paul. In his response he writes back to them and says:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come."
The reason for the Thessalonians concern was that, Paul had previously taught them that when the Lord appeared the dead would rise first, followed by the living believers being changed and caught up together with them, with the wrath of God following the gathering of the church. Therefore, their concern was, "Hey Paul, if these guys are saying that the resurrection has already come, why are we still here? Why haven't we been transformed and caught up?" They were also concerned because they knew that after the resurrection and catching away, that the wrath of God would follow. Paul of course reassures them that it has not yet taken place and to not become easily unsettled or alarmed by that teaching.
After Paul gave a detailed account of the resurrection and catching away of the dead and living in Christ, he then said for all believers to comfort each other with those words. In writing to Titus Paul refers to the Lord's appearing and our being gathered to Him as "the blessed hope."
All of that said, we should have the same attitude that the Thessalonians had. We should also be longing for the Lord's appearing to gather us. After we are gathered, then comes the wrath of God. If the church is to be gathered after God,s wrath upon the whole earth, how could the Lord's appearing be a blessed hope? How could we comfort one another with His promise to gather us if we must first to go through his wrath?
"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!'"
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The primary reason pre-tribbers make their mistake is they fail to understand that the "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus in Mat 24 and Mark 13 happened in AD 66-70. This great tribulation was aimed squarely at the unbelieving Jews and particularly the religious leaders of the day who where responsible for crucifying Christ. The OT prophets spoke of it and John the Baptist was the first in the NT to discuss it, even before Jesus came on the scene.
Here is the first mention of the great tribulation (although not by name) in the NT and it comes from John the Baptist in Mat 3:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance..
This wrath is the great tribulation to come to Jerusalem and those who did not heed the warning to flee when "they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies (Luke 21:20)." There are three accounts of the Olivet Discourse. All three must be taken together to understand the passage.
In Luke 19, Jesus laments over Jerusalem because He knows what's soon coming to them because they failed to recognize Him and instead would kill their Messiah. This wrath to come IS THE GREAT TRIBULATION of Israel some 1,900 years ago that you think the Church will be raptured from.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, [SUP]42 [/SUP]saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. [SUP]43 [/SUP]For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, [SUP]44 [/SUP]and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
Many people think that only the temple complex had every stone removed but not so. The entire city of Jerusalem was completely and utterly dismantled stone by stone. Josephus saw the results and described the city as a desolate wilderness that one would not recognize was ever there except for 3 Roman towers left as a tribute to Rome's conquest.
But before you get too upset, you are correct, another tribulation is coming. It's called the "Wrath of God" by many. This wrath is poured out when Jesus is revealed from Heaven but before He returns. This is taught in many places such as 2 Thes 1, Rev 6 and in Luke 17. Please pay careful attention to the underlined wording.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God...
“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
It is this tribulation that Jesus returns immediately after, not the great tribulation of AD 66-70. We, as Christ's church, need not worry and fret about this tribulation. We also don't need to be "raptured" from it either because Paul assures us that we are not appointed to God's wrath. So, take a deep breath and relax. We will be spared the tribulation wrath to come just as the church was spared back in AD 70 as they heeded Christ's warnings and fled before Jerusalem fell.
