The myth of low wages

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#1
We've heard this idea many times: industries must pay workers a minimum wage to keep their prices low and profits high. The argument goes that if companies are required to pay employees more, there will be fewer jobs available or prices will have to go up. But is that true?

A 2016 National Employment Law Project study looked at job growth trends every time the federal minimum wage increased (since it was first established in 1938). It found no correlation between federal minimum wage increases and lower employment levels.


Instead, the data suggests that employment actually increased about 68% of the time in the year after a minimum wage increase.

This is because when companies increase wages, workers spend their additional earnings, increasing demand. This, in turn increases business, creating jobs and innovation.

Luckily, many companies are choosing to do better by their employees — not only becoming great places to work but also proving this "trickle-down" theory of business wrong:

1. In-N-Out
In-N-Out has been named one of Glassdoor’s 2017 Best Places to Work, which is determined by employee ratings. This isn’t the first time the chain has been praised for being a great place to work; year after year, it ranks high on Glassdoor’s rankings.

The average In-N-Out associate makes around $12 an hour according to Glassdoor, which is above the national minimum wage of $7.25. The company is also known for promoting managers from within, creating job growth opportunities for its employees, and according to the OC Register, managers are paid well above the national average for restaurants.
The company's benefits include retirement accounts, health plans, and three weeks' vacation a year for those who have worked for the company more than six years. This fast food organization is also renowned for prioritizing work-life balance and a healthy work culture. Managers who meet their goals even get the additional perk of an all-expenses-paid trip abroad, according to Thrillist.

In-N-Out demonstrates how it's possible to operate a profitable, popular food chain without mistreating employees or relying on the trickle-down minimum wage myth.

2. Costco
Costco takes care of its employees and pays a living wage, which just this past March, rose again. The company’s entry-level pay is now $13 an hour for new and current employees, up from $11.50. And most of Costco’s employees receive health benefits and pension plans. Higher-paid workers at Costco — who make around $22.50 an hour — are also reported to be receiving a raise of about 2.5% this year.

Keeping its employees happy is important to Costco. “We think this will help, and it’s important to do,” Costco CFO Richard Galanti told CNN Money. “We want to be the premium at all levels.”

The wage increases don’t seem to be hurting business either. Costco is the second largest U.S. retailer — second only to Walmart, which also reportedly raised wages this past year for hourly workers. In addition, in March, the company reported an overall increase in cardholders from 82.7 million to 84 million— showing that keeping employees happy can make customers happy too.

3. Trader Joe’s
This popular grocery store also treats its workers with respect and fairness. While Trader Joe's is somewhat secretive about the way it runs its business, it is clear that the company goes out of its way to foster loyalty among its employees by making it a good working environment. They offer a fair wage (starting salaries are around $13 an hour), along with health and vacation benefits and relatively flexible schedules.

Turnover at Trader Joe's is around 4% yearly, according to a study published in a Pepperdine University business journal — which is substantially below that of traditional supermarkets. This means that the company doesn’t have to as much waste time and money training new employees and can invest more in the ones it already has.

4. Starbucks
Offering a strong benefit package is an example of what this coffee giant means when it refers to its employees as “partners. ”Starbucks offers bonuses, 401(k) matching, discounted stock purchase options, adoption assistance, college tuition reimbursement, health coverage for families, and of course, free coffee.

What makes its benefits packages even better though is that you don’t have to be a full-time employee to receive it — part-time employees that work at least 20 hours a week can get the benefits too. And, since Starbucks started offering its college tuition reimbursement program, its employee retention rate has improved, according to The Atlantic.

5. Ben & Jerry’s
Ben & Jerry’s gets a gold star when it comes to taking care of its employees. The ice cream company pays all its full-time workers a livable wage — $16.92 in 2015 — that is more than double the federal minimum wage. It also recalculates this livable wage every year to make sure it is keeping up with the actual cost of living, factoring in things like food, housing, and fuel costs.

Full-time employees also get health benefits, along with a bunch of other neat perks too, including a dog-friendly office (what's better than taking your furry friend to the office?), an employee nap room, a massage room, and lots of free ice cream (three pints per person, per day, to be precise).

None of these policies have held Ben & Jerry’s back like trickle-down economics says it should. “We outsell the overall U.S. ice cream market and profits are at the top end of the industry,” wrote board member Jeff Furman in an op-ed in Fortune. “Globally, we operate in more than 30 countries.”

By investing in their employees, these companies are reaping the benefits — turnover is down, productivity is up, and workers are loyal, motivated, and proud of their work.

And these companies have done all this while still keeping customers happy and building their businesses.

These five corporations are not only liked by their employees, but they are also shining examples of what can happen when we start to question the myth that low wages are the only way for companies to thrive.



 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#2
A 2016 National Employment Law Project study looked at job growth trends every time the federal minimum wage increased (since it was first established in 1938). It found no correlation between federal minimum wage increases and lower employment levels.

To start with...
the National Employment Law Project is an extremely left-leaning group, funded by other left-wing political groups.

Therefore, I would be tend to ignore any of their findings, or opinions, until it's corroborated by other sources.




*Depending on the precise methodology used to do a study, a study can be skewed to prove almost anything.

If Ricky wants to show us ALL the details of this study, with their funding sources, precise scope, regional and other demographics used, exact list of companies included in the study, precise method for extracting data from their demographics, a copy of the actual raw data before analysis, and a full list of their specific project limiters and delimiters... then I'll take it seriously.



* Example of Skewed Research:
Right now the Democrats are pushing new "favorability polls" about Trump, which are using completely skewed data... they simply interview more Democrats than Republicans... and goodness, Trump's favorability seems surprisingly low!
A poll or study can be skewed to prove anything.
It's done every day.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#3
Or, we could (and will) continue to drive the middle class into extinction, then watch the rich people cry because now they have no one to buy their stuff and they'll pay 100% of all taxes.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#4
And we can also continue to ignore all that God said about hording wealth and not paying people a living wage:

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

1 Timothy 3:3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.

Matthew 6:24 No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

Luke 16: No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth

Matthew 4:9-10 and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"

James 4:4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Matthew 13:22 And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Mark 4:19 but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Luke 8:14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

Matthew 19:21-22Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

Mark 10:21-22 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

Luke 18:22-23 When Jesus heard this, He said to him, "One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when he had heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich.

1 Timothy 6:17 Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy.

Job 31:24-28 If I have put my confidence in gold, And called fine gold my trust, If I have gloated because my wealth was great, And because my hand had secured so much; If I have looked at the sun when it shone or the moon going in splendor, And my heart became secretly enticed, And my hand threw a kiss from my mouth, That too would have been an iniquity calling for judgment, For I would have denied God above.

Psalm 52:6-7 The righteous will see and fear, And will laugh at him, saying, "Behold, the man who would not make God his refuge, But trusted in the abundance of his riches And was strong in his evil desire."

Proverbs 11:28 He who trusts in his riches will fall, But the righteous will flourish like the green leaf.

Jeremiah 49:4 How boastful you are about the valleys! Your valley is flowing away, O backsliding daughter who trusts in her treasures, saying, 'Who will come against me?'

Ezekiel 28:5 By your great wisdom, by your trade You have increased your riches And your heart is lifted up because of your riches

Psalm 62:10 Do not trust in oppression and do not vainly hope in robbery; If riches increase, do not set your heart upon them.

Proverbs 18:23 The poor man utters supplications, But the rich man answers roughly.

Proverbs 28:11 The rich man is wise in his own eyes, But the poor who has understanding sees through him.

Job 20:17-20 He does not look at the streams, The rivers flowing with honey and curds. He returns what he has attained And cannot swallow it; As to the riches of his trading, He cannot even enjoy them. For he has oppressed and forsaken the poor; He has seized a house which he has not built. Because he knew no quiet within him, He does not retain anything he desires.

Proverbs 15:6 Great wealth is in the house of the righteous, But trouble is in the income of the wicked.

Proverbs 30:8-9 Keep deception and lies far from me, give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion, That I not be full and deny You and say, "Who is the LORD?" Or that I not be in want and steal, And profane the name of my God.

Deuteronomy 32:15 Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, they became heavy and sleek. They abandoned the God who made them and rejected the Rock their Savior.
Nehemiah 9:25-26 They captured fortified cities and a fertile land They took possession of houses full of every good thing, Hewn cisterns, vineyards, olive groves, Fruit trees in abundance So they ate, were filled and grew fat, And reveled in Your great goodness. "But they became disobedient and rebelled against You, And cast Your law behind their backs And killed Your prophets who had admonished them So that they might return to You, And they committed great blasphemies.

Hosea 13:6 As they had their pasture, they became satisfied, And being satisfied, their heart became proud; Therefore they forgot Me.

Proverbs 23:4 Do not weary yourself to gain wealth, Cease from your consideration of it.

Haggai 1:3-5 Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet, saying, "Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses while this house lies desolate?" Now therefore, thus says the LORD of hosts, "Consider your ways!

Luke 16:19-21 Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores … 25 But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony

1 Timothy 6:8-9 If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction.

Leviticus 19:13 You shall not oppress your neighbor, nor rob him. The wages of a hired man are not to remain with you all night until morning.

Deuteronomy 24:12-15 If he is a poor man, you shall not sleep with his pledge. When the sun goes down you shall surely return the pledge to him, that he may sleep in his cloak and bless you; and it will be righteousness for you before the LORD your God. You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

Proverbs 22:16 He who oppresses the poor to make more for himself or who gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.

Isaiah 1:23 Your rulers are rebels And companions of thieves; Everyone loves a bribe And chases after rewards. They do not defend the orphan, Nor does the widow's plea come before them.

Jeremiah 22:13 Woe to him who builds his house without righteousness And his upper rooms without justice, Who uses his neighbor's services without pay And does not give him his wages,

Micah 6:12 For the rich men of the city are full of violence, Her residents speak lies, And their tongue is deceitful in their mouth.

Malachi 3:5 Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me," says the LORD of hosts.

James 2:6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?

James 5:4 Behold, the pay off the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabbath.

Job 31:24, 25, 28 If I have put my confidence in gold, And called fine gold my trust, If I have gloated because my wealth was great, And because my hand had secured so much; ... That too would have been an iniquity calling for judgment, For I would have denied God above.

Psalm 52:7 Behold,the man who would not make God his refuge, But trusted in the abundance of his riches And was strong in his evil desire."

Proverbs 18:11 A rich man’s wealth is his strong city, And like a high wall in his own imagination.

Luke 12:20 "But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

James 5: 1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#5
And before you all get up in arms about how I'm 'coveting others riches', I'll remind you that we are in the 8% (meaning 92 percent of the people in this country make less) and covet nothing more than helping that 92% out.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,325
2,416
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#6
So Ricky,

Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?

;)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#7
Frankly I am aghast that so many in Christian circles wholeheartedly support the hording of wealth at the expense of workers, in DIRECT VIOLATION of God's Word.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,325
2,416
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#8
Frankly I am aghast that so many in Christian circles wholeheartedly support the hording of wealth at the expense of workers, in DIRECT VIOLATION of God's Word.
I think if we were to dissect both views fairly, instead of using straw men, we mind find something very different.


And in post #6 I was just teasing you.
I have no problem with you expressing your views.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#9
I know you were teasing. No worries. But this IS a serious subject.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#10
20170117_184624.jpg
Income inequality is NOT a straw man... it is a major factor in the decline of this country.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,325
2,416
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#11
Ricky, the straw man is found in how you sometimes present the rationale, or the motives, of the opposing side.

In all fairness, both sides are prone to use straw men.


This is fairly complicated stuff, and I'm not going to do this today.
My head already hurts from other things, lol.
You take care.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,923
8,654
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#12
Ricky, you really have an axe to grind against businesses and others that YOU deem have too much. What the heck happened to you to be so bitter in this area?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#13
Hope your head feels better soon :)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#14
Ricky, you really have an axe to grind against businesses and others that YOU deem have too much. What the heck happened to you to be so bitter in this area?
I'm not bitter, I'm concerned that so many are being cheated, that such cheating is destroying this country (and world), and mostly that so many support it. Especially Christians ​who have God's word that it is wrong.

Since Reagan was in office, CEO compensation has skyrocketed while worker compensation has been stagnant or decreased. That's not one man's opinion, it is established fact.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
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#15
12$ an hour? Thats pretty typical for fast food, I mean I live in a state with a low minimum wage and the fast food jobs around here generally pay around 10$ for anyone who starts working for them. The pay has to be worth the work a person is doing : p

Im not so much against raising minimum wage as much as I am against people that believe that will solve all their woes. I dont believe that these corporations are really these evil scheming greedy villians youd see in a 50s film, I believe that they have to budget how much they spend and on what. The store next to the store I work for offers better wages, but it often cuts down on hours, and many of the people who work there are getting less than 20 hours a week. Meanwhile my work place gives around 30 hours a week and often offers extra hours for anyone willing to take them.

I dont believe that forcing everyone who has employees to pay more is gonna make everything right.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
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#16
I wish threads would quit leaning left or right.... I like your thread by the way I am just sick of everything being tied to politics. The election is over can't we move on....

I like the idea of being paid enough to be able to actually spend money.

I was rich according to my measure for about 10 years and then they laid me off in 2013 and I lived off the 401k until there is no more 401k.

Medical costs ate up a lot of it because I didn't have insurance and paid full price and now that they took the full price amount I go to the area free clinic and pay what I can and if I can't I don't.... Sad the way the system works to rob you blind and then after working for 45 years I'm flat broke.

Top it all off the 45 years I did work they are trying to tell me that Social Security is an entitlement....Nope I paid into it for 45 years but yet they want to rob us in that regard too....

I was one of the lucky ones that not having a college education made a decent wage for a good portion of my working life at least half of it. I don't know how people are expected to live off minimum wage....God bless the companies that are trying to be fair to their employees.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#17
God took the opportunity on several occasions to speak out against lust of the flesh and sexual immorality. If a claimed Christian stated that partaking in pornography is perfectly ok, would that not be something that needs correction?

I've listed 45 scriptures that God spoke directly against hording riches and not paying workers a living wage (I'm sure there has to be even more). Is it not a correctible thing when claimed Christians say hording riches and impoverishing workers is ok?

Besides, someone has to offer up for debate something besides the usual Hypergrace and gifts stuff that has been worked to death around here ;)