sad panda time...
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D
Okay. I accept this challenge. (And yes, I know you didn't set it up as a challenge, but you keep assuming all of life is one way only.)
Why we don't go to church in no particular order. Because:
-- I cannot sit or stand for more that 30 minutes without squirming. Squirming distracts others who can. I sat in a chair at my brother's house for longer on Sunday. Today is the first day since then I'm almost back down to managed pain levels. If I went to church on Sunday, Monday through Thursday would make me do what I've been doing all this week. (You don't want to know, but it wasn't pretty.)
-- He cannot sleep right. He will not take a sleeping pill because he hates being groggy all day. Problem -- he's not up and ready to go out on Sunday mornings. Church meets on Sunday mornings.
-- He exhausts easily.
-- Church isn't just a place to sit, listen to a sermon, feel better about yourself, and go back to regular life. It's a place to edify. "Edify." Great word. When we're physically with other believers edify usually comes in three forms: voice, nearness to others, (which BTW comes back to standing our sitting for longer periods of times than I or he can do), or physical work. Bzzzz on the physical work. Backs and strength are required for that one, so we're left in the dust.
-- Churches are places people go to get help. Unfortunately, in this day and age, the only people churches help are those who are already able. If you can't go, you're not a member. If you're not a member, they think you're using them so won't or can't. (I never got the inside story to find out which it was, but it always ended up NOT!)
So, go for it, Mr. Everyone-should-be-in-a-church. Do tell. How does that happen?
Because little do you know? Most of the long-timers here are all in the same boat. We come here because we CANNOT go to church. What do we do? Keep waiting around until we can find a church that just happens to meet close to us at that particular moment when we can go?
And, nope! Can't start one at home, because our home looks pretty much like what one would picture it looking like with two disabled people living here and no one from church would dare come in. OR, if they dared, they'd expect tea and crumpets, not a bucket of soapy water and dusting cloth. (It's embarrassing. Particularly when there are people who would leave just to gossip on how much those people need church.)
So, do tell. How is it everyone here should be a part of church? (Especially given the concept of "where two or three are gathered" was thrown out the window.)
Why we don't go to church in no particular order. Because:
-- I cannot sit or stand for more that 30 minutes without squirming. Squirming distracts others who can. I sat in a chair at my brother's house for longer on Sunday. Today is the first day since then I'm almost back down to managed pain levels. If I went to church on Sunday, Monday through Thursday would make me do what I've been doing all this week. (You don't want to know, but it wasn't pretty.)
-- He cannot sleep right. He will not take a sleeping pill because he hates being groggy all day. Problem -- he's not up and ready to go out on Sunday mornings. Church meets on Sunday mornings.
-- He exhausts easily.
-- Church isn't just a place to sit, listen to a sermon, feel better about yourself, and go back to regular life. It's a place to edify. "Edify." Great word. When we're physically with other believers edify usually comes in three forms: voice, nearness to others, (which BTW comes back to standing our sitting for longer periods of times than I or he can do), or physical work. Bzzzz on the physical work. Backs and strength are required for that one, so we're left in the dust.
-- Churches are places people go to get help. Unfortunately, in this day and age, the only people churches help are those who are already able. If you can't go, you're not a member. If you're not a member, they think you're using them so won't or can't. (I never got the inside story to find out which it was, but it always ended up NOT!)
So, go for it, Mr. Everyone-should-be-in-a-church. Do tell. How does that happen?
Because little do you know? Most of the long-timers here are all in the same boat. We come here because we CANNOT go to church. What do we do? Keep waiting around until we can find a church that just happens to meet close to us at that particular moment when we can go?
And, nope! Can't start one at home, because our home looks pretty much like what one would picture it looking like with two disabled people living here and no one from church would dare come in. OR, if they dared, they'd expect tea and crumpets, not a bucket of soapy water and dusting cloth. (It's embarrassing. Particularly when there are people who would leave just to gossip on how much those people need church.)
So, do tell. How is it everyone here should be a part of church? (Especially given the concept of "where two or three are gathered" was thrown out the window.)
Actually, desperation is what led me here. AND God, of course. 
Following my last bout with depression, I desperately wanted to find some way of maintaining a better and more positive attitude. In my first year here, I found that. The last couple years however, just make me more sad and frustrated and wanting to rip my hair out..
Following my last bout with depression, I desperately wanted to find some way of maintaining a better and more positive attitude. In my first year here, I found that. The last couple years however, just make me more sad and frustrated and wanting to rip my hair out..
J
Exactly, Willie. There are many people who, for whatever reason, are mainly stuck online during what should be their social time or worship and prayer time. Damage may be one reason, resources another.
It's cool you got a social life, bro. Many of us do not have that, and while this may not be the greatest place to be for everybody all the time, we still have a responsibility to our brethren.
BUT... to lend credence to your stance this is an online environment. The unspoken rules say that you're gonna need somewhat of a thick skin if you're going to be on the internet socializing for any length of time and if you don't have one you'd better start developing it (though some of us are oversensitive emotional wrecks regardless).
It's cool you got a social life, bro. Many of us do not have that, and while this may not be the greatest place to be for everybody all the time, we still have a responsibility to our brethren.
BUT... to lend credence to your stance this is an online environment. The unspoken rules say that you're gonna need somewhat of a thick skin if you're going to be on the internet socializing for any length of time and if you don't have one you'd better start developing it (though some of us are oversensitive emotional wrecks regardless).
"The single greatest cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyles. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
Part of the lyrics on the album, Jesus Freak, by dc Talk.
Be Well,
cavil
Part of the lyrics on the album, Jesus Freak, by dc Talk.
Be Well,
cavil
Not carefully reading what I said, you went and typed out a nice long post about why you don't go to church.... and I didn't say a word about church. I suggested encouraging them to connect with, and become involved with, local Christians.
I hardly ever encourage someone jump to go to church.... unless they are specifically looking for a church. But, yes, I do believe everyone should be involved, personally, and IRL, with a group of Christians.
I hardly ever encourage someone jump to go to church.... unless they are specifically looking for a church. But, yes, I do believe everyone should be involved, personally, and IRL, with a group of Christians.
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T
Many times Ive been the first to pray. However, I too noticed that others didnt pray so started to be quiet to see what happened. I then started getting people PM me saying "that person needs prayer didnt you see it?". My response is now very simple. If YOU see someone that needs prayer then don't moan about others when you too are not praying. Why is it that people are very quick to look at others as though it is their responsibility for something you could do yourself? People on mic dont always notice what is being written in the room as they often are reading scripture too or holding other conversations. If you see someone asks for prayer and you yourself dont pray but complain that others arent praying then you too need to look at your own heart
Although this sounds good, it isn't biblical.
The greatest cause of atheism is the atheist.
People CHOOSE to ignore the revelation of God in conscience and in creation.
Rom 1:19
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
God has revealed himself to all men... and they willfully choose to ignore him.
Should we all try to live good lives that honor God?
Of course.
We should do that because it honors and pleases God.
But when Christians fail, that does not CAUSE the atheists to be an atheist.
It simply gives the atheist another EXCUSE for his SINFUL DISOBEDIENCE.
(We should not give atheists more excuses... but nonetheless, excuses are still just excuses.)
We should do our best to live right, and try to honor God with our lives.
But let's not accept the atheist rhetoric that they don't believe in God because they've seen Christians "mess up."
That's just an excuse.
We should not give them these excuses... but excuses are still just excuses.
The greatest cause of atheism is the atheist.
People CHOOSE to ignore the revelation of God in conscience and in creation.
Rom 1:19
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
God has revealed himself to all men... and they willfully choose to ignore him.
Should we all try to live good lives that honor God?
Of course.
We should do that because it honors and pleases God.
But when Christians fail, that does not CAUSE the atheists to be an atheist.
It simply gives the atheist another EXCUSE for his SINFUL DISOBEDIENCE.
(We should not give atheists more excuses... but nonetheless, excuses are still just excuses.)
We should do our best to live right, and try to honor God with our lives.
But let's not accept the atheist rhetoric that they don't believe in God because they've seen Christians "mess up."
That's just an excuse.
We should not give them these excuses... but excuses are still just excuses.
J
The church has seriously hurt a lot of people and caused them to abandon the idea of a loving God.
It's not God's fault, it's the fault of the people who failed in their responsibilities to him and to those they should be serving.
Fact remains, the church abuses its authority a lot of times. I've experienced it, and if it wasn't for the fact that God sent his spirit to me repeatedly to call me to him many times in some powerful and undeniable ways, I would most likely have abandoned faith for the way I was treated.
cavil is probably right. Those who claim to be of the church but aren't dedicated to service have committed many, many atrocities throughout history.
It's not God's fault, it's the fault of the people who failed in their responsibilities to him and to those they should be serving.
Fact remains, the church abuses its authority a lot of times. I've experienced it, and if it wasn't for the fact that God sent his spirit to me repeatedly to call me to him many times in some powerful and undeniable ways, I would most likely have abandoned faith for the way I was treated.
cavil is probably right. Those who claim to be of the church but aren't dedicated to service have committed many, many atrocities throughout history.
Ricky,
I would never claim all christians, or all churches, have done a great job of spreading the light of the gospel.
I would never deny that overall, the state of Christ's church (at least here in the West) seems to be a mess.
Nonetheless, it is a clear, biblical fact, that men all receive revelation of God, through conscience and nature, and they WILLFULLY CHOOSE to reject God.
I didn't make this up.
It's right in the bible.
An atheist, even once he hardens his own conscience, still receives "general revelation" from God every moment of every day of his life... just from seeing creation.
An atheist is, quite literally, rejecting revelation from God every moment of every day.
The atheist is responsible for his rejection of God.
I would never claim all christians, or all churches, have done a great job of spreading the light of the gospel.
I would never deny that overall, the state of Christ's church (at least here in the West) seems to be a mess.
Nonetheless, it is a clear, biblical fact, that men all receive revelation of God, through conscience and nature, and they WILLFULLY CHOOSE to reject God.
I didn't make this up.
It's right in the bible.
An atheist, even once he hardens his own conscience, still receives "general revelation" from God every moment of every day of his life... just from seeing creation.
An atheist is, quite literally, rejecting revelation from God every moment of every day.
The atheist is responsible for his rejection of God.