Purpose driven life

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Apr 30, 2016
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#41
This makes no sense.
It's easy Drogovska
What Willie-T is saying is that no one here answering you thinks they were born to answer your questions.

We're just doing what we believe God would want us to do. You happened to come along, and we're here to try and answer your questions.

The reason we're here and why we spend time speaking to you is because we DO believe that man has a spirit that God put into Him. This spirit makes man search for God and this is why it's easy to let go of Santa and the tooth fairy, but it's not so easy to let go of God because HE is the one who made us in His image. In many ways we are like God because we ARE in His image. This is also a very interesting study that you could work on.

I'm worried that you have an incorrect perception of God.

Willie-T said that God is driving the car because we are all passengers in a car that is called Life. And God is driving the car in the sense that Life belongs to Him.

Here's a poem I like:

[h=2]God didn't promise days without pain,
laughter without sorrow, or sun without rain,
but He did promise strength for the day,
comfort for the tears,
and light for the way.
[/h]
Fran

 
Apr 30, 2016
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#42
You're trolling! As bitter as you are, as hate filled, you're not here to have a discussion or even seeking understanding. You're here to condemn the faith and the faithful. Couching it in the excuse that you've "tried" on the faith and it didn't work as promised and now you're seriously PO'ed and are here to defecate on everything we believe.

See, if you really have nothing more to do with the faith, if you ever had anything to do with it, you'd have no reason to be here saying that in vicious repetitive ways. Every post that hopes to lead you to better understanding, you condemn and berate and then enter into your insults toward the faith yet again.

I personally think you should be banned. Your screen name is an anagram for Gradskovo. Which is a village in Serbia. Regardless of the American flag that accompanies your profile. An American linked IP can be afforded via a VPN.

These promises we speak of are lies? OK. No one with any self respect would occupy their time with liars or believers in lies. Bye now.
AngelFrog,
If you ever feel you are losing your faith, YOU TOO will question everything you ever heard...

Fran
 
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#43
I have been listening to the messages by Rick Warren during the 40 day of purpose thing online.

In one of his talks, he keeps using the phrase, "God loves you SOOO MUCH . . . "

And it occurred to me, that I have been believing in a myth. I realized for the first time in my life, that God really does not love me.

I am in a crisis of faith. All the evidence tells me that God, if there is one, cannot be a personal God, and many of the claims about God and his character cannot be true.

I just completed day 12 of this series. I had to stop for a while, because I just couldn't listen to all the lies. I told a friend I would complete the series, so I have resumed.

I take away two things from this--1. God does not love me 2. There is no purpose to my life.
1. What's your evidence?
 
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#44
You joined this forum just to tell us God doesn't love you, and there's no purpose to your life?
Seems like a better reason than most I've heard, (including mine.)
 
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#45
While Rick Warren, in his defense, is no heretic, and offers true orthodox Christianity. However, his material is making me face the truth--that God does not love us. The evidences is just not there, but actually proves the opposite.

There is no evidence that God loves us on a personal level, or that God answers prayer, or helps us when it really counts.

I am continuing to listen, hoping that I will find something that will change my mind, but the more I listen to him, the more I am convinced that his claims, which are mainstream evangelical Christianity, are preposterous and false.
​Small correction: Rick Warren isn't orthodox. (Not a heretic either, but not orthodox.)
 
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#46
I will spare you the pain of all the incidents of rage in my childhood, as a child of what I now believe were alcoholics. I will not go into detail about the bullying, the 14 different neighborhoods by age 15, the confusion of the tornado, the fire, the beatings.

I turned my life over to Christ around age 14, and joined the church, got baptized. I wanted to become a minister, but I had to drop out of school because of depression. I went to church, memorized whole chapters of the Bible, went to psychiatrists, psychologists, counselors, nothing worked. I was hospitalized for while.

I had a brief reprieve from the depression and thought that perhaps God was smiling on me, and perhaps, at age 33, I could marry and have a normal life. I was so sure that this woman was the one God had for me. She turned out to be a spending addict, and would not take care of our child.

We prayed for a healthy child. We got something else. We prayed for a diagnosis. No one could give us one. We prayed for any kind of help with him. We got none. He couldn't function in school He was bullied in the neighborhood. We prayed for his safety. He was sexually assaulted by an older boy. We prayed for him all through his teen years. He could not hold a job. He would get into terrible tantrums and physical altercations.

He finally got disability. He still could not have any dignity, and we prayed for him daily. He married a woman he met in the mental hospital. It was a horrible marriage, and she was physically violent to him, and I think he returned the favor. He is said to have a form of schizophrenia now. He is in jail for one of his temper tantrums, and his wife's guardian has changed the locks and moved his stuff out.

If I get him out of jail, he is homeless in the winter time. Every step of the way he prayed, just like I prayed as a child form the rage of my parents to stop. I can't do this any more. If a father loves his children, he HELPS THEM, he GUIDES THEM, he has a CONVERSATION WITH THEM.

If God loved me, he would help my son, and all the parents who pray for their mentally ill children would get some help for the children. If God loved my son, he would help.

If God loved his children, he would protect them. 90,000 Christians were killed for their faith in 2016. God watched and did nothing, said nothing. When my son was being sexually assaulted, God watched and said nothing, did nothing.

All my life, there has not been a correlation with prayer and receiving anything. If you get an outcome you were seeking, you say your prayer is answered, if you don't, then you make excuses like, "well we don't understand His plan."

I am finished with trusting God on a personal level. Either God is able to help, but unwilling, or he is willing but powerless to help.

Take your pick. If the former, then God is a liar and pretty much useless. If the latter, then I must learn that God is principle, not a personality. Either way, God does not involve himself in my life. He is not intervening on behalf of my son. He is not helping me at all. My whole life I have been looking to God and doing so in vain. Either God is the ultimate deadbeat dad, or God is just a principle or universal law.

I have done nothing but suffer all my life, and now I get to watch my child suffer. God watches, does nothing, says nothing. If it walks like a duck and acts like a duck, then it probably is. In this case an entity that says nothing and does nothing resembles very much an imaginary friend.

It hurts, but it is time for me to grow up and let go of childhood myths.
This is my life in Christ.

I went to see Jesus Christ Superstar and asked God to show me him as clearly as I could see that guy playing Jesus on the stage. I didn't go home after that musical. I was going back to my dysfunctional aunt and uncle's house, because my mother had already known she was dying of cancer when she left Dad a few months earlier and didn't want to burden her mother with taking care of her, two teenagers and one four year old brother. The next morning I woke up absolutely knowing God was real.

I had no idea what to do with that information, but on the way to school, I told my friend. She just happened to know about a Bible Study going on before school by some missionary.

He was the guy who mentored me and introduced me to a whole community of Christians. Several of them were also interns at the same hospital my mother was in and out of with her cancer. They laid hands on her and prayed. Then they told me God would heal her.

She died. She died, and I and my little brother were quickly whisked away to Dad's house 1500 miles away, in a subdivision 15 miles from town, and I didn't know how to drive, once more had my driver's licences. THAT's what God did to me.

EXCEPT, had he not done that to me, I would have never been forced to get to know my dad and take my first steps to figuring out how to be an adult by taking care of my five year old brother. (Tell me you would have come to love your son even more without all those trials. Can't say it, can you?)

And I rebelled against God for the first time in there. And I ended up being a druggie at college, barely making it through college only to find out I've got no skills to do what I wanted to do with that degree. (I wanted to be a high school English teacher. I stink at grammar.)

And I didn't make it unscathed. I went to friends house to tutor their son, and was returning home on a dark road by hitchhiking. Five guys picked me up and raped me. While raping me, one guy raised an ax over my head to tell me to shut up. I only had my coat on by that time, and I lowered the hood to give him a clean shot at my neck. He then raised a baseball bat above my head, and the same thing happened. I was not killed, despite desperately wanting to be killed. THAT was what God gave me. LIFE with a lot less pride!

And he gave it to me to get me to see how far I had fallen, and get me to go to drug rehab. (And, if you don't think that was God, I did not know that the friend I was helping by helping their son also was on the board of that rehab, until he told me about it. He was a pastor.)

So, I went through rehab, and helped others as they helped me. And about that time, I graduated with a degree in Communications, nix any use for the other part that says "Secondary Education," and poof! Got no where to go and nothing to do.

EXCEPT, God did that to me, because had I not failed miserably, I would have gone on to get a degree at Penn State in Communications, (was accepted, except didn't go because I would have had to live with Dad which meant no partying), been successful in some way in Communications, except at the wrong time and place to meet hubby. (Had we not met, both of us would be dead.) And, had I been a success, i would have gone on to teach high school English, instead of learn to help kids in schools to not even fall into getting stoned, as well as help other druggies through rehab. That rehab gave me my first full-time job, 15 weeks after graduating. (The college degree gave me a summer of cleaning other people's houses. lol) And after that job was over, I went on to find another job helping runaways and throwaways. (Which is when I met hubby at church.)

AND, had hubby not just gone through one hell of a marriage, getting physically abused by his wife (talking knives and razor blades here, not merely some slapping by a little woman), he would not have had two kids who were stuck with their insane mother so her insanity didn't include twisting them up one way and the other by disparaging their dad so much that they were terrified every Friday night when they had to go see him, and then cried every Sunday afternoon because they had to go back to the insanity that was their mother. And those two kids would have both gone crazy and not had their kids, who have now had their own kids.

So, he and I married. And after the problems we had right before we met each other, I asked God to give us a rest. He did.

Two years, two days. Then hubby broke his back. Not paralyzed, but his doctor called him Quasimodo, until he was fitted into a back brace. And he'd never be able to go back to what he did (HVAC mechanic.) And I was trying out the housewife thing, (and found out I'm not), so I had no job, thus no income. And God took care of all that.

My communications degree taught me how to write a great resume. Before we met, hubby had spent his time helping kids at Christian day camps, and teaching them how to work on houses, so we both had the background to help kids, and were chosen to be group home parents to six teenage boys. Couldn't afford food or shelter, but both were provided because God knew we needed it.

Just enough time for hubby's back to heal, because that was the world's worst job. (One boy ran away every night, doorbell rang every night between 3-5 AM with cops returning him, and little did we know that kid had raped a 10 year old, until after we already gave our notice. Good thing though. God worked that out too. After the job, the kid wanted to be emancipated, and the courts asked me my opinion, so I was able to tell why he was dangerous in society. No emanciation. A warrant instead.)

We rebuilt our lives after that. Hubby could not go back on the streets doing HVAC work, however working on a federal government base doing steam pipes was doable, because the government is very protective of their worker's safety. AND he got the job when there was a hiring freeze because a friend of his was leaving his job and recommended hubby. Things were going smoothly for a while. (Not too smoothly, since I have always had trouble finding a new job, but after all this time, I'm fully aware God takes care of us.)

My grandmother died, giving us enough down payment for a house, but after spending so long being broke, we decided to buy a small home we could afford even if just one of us could work.

Good thing. God at work again. BRAC hit. (A committee in Congress that decided which bases would be shut down.) Used to be a government job was the safest job, because they don't downsize. There went hubby's pension. His livelihood too, but it was the government, so they gave five years noticed and retrained. Hubby got into Computer Networking classes when the average salary was $172,000 a year.

13 months later, when he graduated, they were making $40,000 a year. I had a home based business going, that was just going into the black. Gallstones passing through got me into surgery, and whoever moved me off the operating table pinched a nerve in my back that felt just like something was wrong with my gallbladder... except I no longer had one.

Lost my business and my health, but doctors wouldn't tell me what happened for 15 years. (Statue of limitation for malpractice is 3 years.) End of 1999, or the Y2K bug.

Hubby's temp jobs for that year were fixing the Y2K bug. After that was fixed, the computer field was glutted, and after that three jets rammed into three buildings, causing no flying in the US for three days, causing many businesses to fail, and, oh yeah, the dotcommers lost a lot of businesses. Soooo, $172,000 a year became $30,000 a year WITH a college degree.

Ends up, God was in all that too. Had I been able to work, I would have. Had I been working, I wouldn't have had the time to nag hubby to go see the eye doctor about that blind spot in his eye. Had the eye doctor not told him it was caused by a rupture that would have been a stroke if it happened anywhere else in his head, besides his eye, he wouldn't have gone to our primary, who then took blood tests, who then found out it was a deep depression. He had Hepatitis C. I took care of him through treatment, because he was too sick to go to doctors!

We also ran out of money -- including our savings and retirement -- and we got foreclosure on the house, but God worked out us living on $839 a month with a $550 mortgage for a year, until hubby found out Hep C hid other health problems and the chemo wrecked his body in new ways, and he was disabled.

God was in that too. We're still in our house. We still eat. We still pay the bills.

And then there was his cancer, which should have been major surgery with a 14 inch incision, except God provided the booboo that made the resident blab a different way of taking care of it, so it was removed by freezing it with a long needle.

And if we weren't both disabled, I wouldn't have been home, when he decided that feeling in his abdomen was indigestion, not a heart attack, until four days later when he just couldn't breathe. and I wouldn't have been able to visit him in the hospital for the next 8 months to deal with doctors and crises....

And mostly? God was there, when I asked his will for my husband, when he should NOT have lived! And my husband is with me today.

God never promised us a rose garden! He promised us he'd be there for us and grow us into being more like him. We don't learn patience, trust, joy, kindness, endurance, perseverance, etc. by everything working out hunky dory. We learn it the hard way! And that IS God doing that for us!

Of course it hurts! We have to let go of ego and trust God. He HAS proven himself trustworthy. We have proven to be untrustworthy enough already. He is very real. Being mad at him does NOT stop him from being real, and you know this!!!
 
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#47
My son is not the Messiah. Your point makes my point. Good news, my disciples--after I die, you will all be beaten, tortured, and killed. After you are all dead, the world will be in chaos, no peace, no order, and Islam will appear, and communism, and will kill millions of you. You should look forward to all this. It will be so rewarding.

My son is mentally ill. He is not one of the twelve. If God loved us, he would not put us in the situation where we will be slaughtered like sheep, burned alive, drowned in cages, skinned alive, buried alive, and crucified. What kind of father lets this happen to his children?

I have reached my breaking point with all this "walk by faith" stuff. God is not there when you need him, and there is no reward for doing what you think he wants of you.
Right! This is not a good-puppy reward system. It is not about us and what we want. What we want is to hide from God and keep doing our sins. Not about that. It's about God. And, to a man, each one of those apostles loved the life they were given! God's life!
 
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#48
Every nanosecond? How about NONE AT ALL, EVER. I am changing my view to number 2 on your list. That is the only thing that makes sense. I didn't ask him to send his son to die. If he loves me, he doesn't need anyone to die. He can just say, "I forgive you." Done. Finished, complete.

The gospel is a confusing thing. First, in order to appreciate the good news, you must convince people they are going to hell. Unless you believe this, then the other news won't mean much. Then you tell them, "but there is a way out of hell."

This is just nonsense. It is like the islanders in the old movies, where you throw a virgin in the volcano. If God loves us so much, he doesn't need someone to die. He can just forgive.

God makes a race of humans, knowing that they are going to sin, and then punishes them FOREVER. If that is your story, then what a monster God must be.

God has not showed any indication that he loves me, or anyone else for that matter. No, I must explore you option no 2
Let's use your logic.

Your son was mistreated, bullied, and tormented. Nothing should happen to those people though, right? Just say, "You're forgiven." Works, right?

No justice in that, is there? Is it even okay for you to do that to those who abused your son?

So reverse it. Your crimes are equal to theirs. Don't you deserve something for your crimes? You really do! That's justice, after all.

And yet, should God be unjust and just simply forgive you for your sins? Or should he be merciful?

He did both! He couldn't fairly not punish those sins. No justice in that. But he does have a cool rule. If you want, you can take on the punishment of those people who abused your son. That way there is punishment, so the law is met, but there is also mercy. One caveat though. You can only take on their punishment if you've never ever (even minorly... like maybe to a sibling or a dweeb at school) done the same thing. Can you do that? Would you do that?

Jesus did. Except it wasn't for a few bullies. It was for whosoever will believe. And the only way he could do that was he never did that sin. Look at your life. You say you've been a Christian all this time. (And I believe you still are. You're merely depleted at the moment so angry at God.) You know the commandments. How many of them have you broken? (I hit all ten myself.) Doesn't someone deserve that punishment? Actually, you do. Jesus didn't merely say you're forgiven. He proved it on that cross. And that cross, and that death, and that journey to hell was your punishment, my punishment, and the punishment of all whosoever believes.

Much bigger than a mere "Meh. I forgive you." That's putting the actions to the words.
 
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#49
I really really get being mad at God. I was mad at him the weeks after I was raped. I was mad at him when mom died. I was mad at him when I became disabled. I was really mad at him when hubby became disabled. (It hurts worse when it's family, not us, right?) And I was furious 20,000 times last year when hubby had that heart attack and kept almost-dying in another 20,000 different ways.

That last one is the reason my name is Depleted. I truly was, like you are now.

In the end, as often as I tried to deny God, I just never could. We know what we know. We can't unknow it. As angry as you are, you know God is. And when you calm down a little bit and look back, you also see God taking care of you and yours all along the way.

You slipped at one moment. You said that if your son wasn't in prison right now, he'd be homeless in wintertime. I know you'd rather God give him a sound mind and a $5 million house. Who wouldn't? But that wasn't the plan. That wasn't what would guide you and your son to be closer to God. (The purpose in life. God!) And in that, your son is not homeless in wintertime. He's also not with you causing you even more frustration and confusion, giving you some time to rest for when he's out again. AND it gives your son time with medications that calms his mind and helps him get a bit of reality versus all that terror he was sure he saw and experienced that is the hallucinations of the schizophrenic mind. AND he's getting the time need to regulate those medicines.

No, prison isn't the best case scenario, but it is helping him get a grip and it is stopping him from freezing to death until he's able to get that grip. (Surely, he has often decided medication makes it worse, so he quit. Like a never ending nightmare merry-go-round. Prison is where he's less likely to quit the meds.)

That too is God helping both of you. And you know this. So when you calm down, face that again. Because that is the God who loves you without giving you the rose garden.

When you get to the point of realizing this temper tantrum isn't getting you anywhere either, (and don't feel like I'm putting you down. I just know what an adult temper tantrum looks like from personal experience), PM me. I know a book that teaches us why some of us get what appears to be the stinky life. God has put us through what he's put us through for a very good reason. A reason many people never need. We are his problem children so he guides us more. When you get to the point when you want to go back to God, but you aren't entirely sure because you're still mad at him, I can recommend a book that got me through my worst temper tantrum.

It answers the obvious question, "Why me, God?"
 
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#50
What is it that he says that is so erroneous? He sounds like every other fundamentalist pastor I have listened to over the last 45 years.
Kind of the problem I have with fundamental pastors. They teach it's all about us. (Good-doggy treats.) It's not. It's all about God.
 
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#51
Would you read a fairly long book a friend of mine wrote kind of countering Rick's book if I sent it to you? It's not a "Here's what is wrong with Warren" book. It is simply a "I see it another way." book.
Would it help drog with his more pressing problems? I'm left thinking Rick Warren is on the bottom of a very long list of things-not-working-as-expected.
 
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#52
You're trolling! As bitter as you are, as hate filled, you're not here to have a discussion or even seeking understanding. You're here to condemn the faith and the faithful. Couching it in the excuse that you've "tried" on the faith and it didn't work as promised and now you're seriously PO'ed and are here to defecate on everything we believe.

See, if you really have nothing more to do with the faith, if you ever had anything to do with it, you'd have no reason to be here saying that in vicious repetitive ways. Every post that hopes to lead you to better understanding, you condemn and berate and then enter into your insults toward the faith yet again.

I personally think you should be banned. Your screen name is an anagram for Gradskovo. Which is a village in Serbia. Regardless of the American flag that accompanies your profile. An American linked IP can be afforded via a VPN.

These promises we speak of are lies? OK. No one with any self respect would occupy their time with liars or believers in lies. Bye now.
You tend to get the concept of anger only when you're angry. You're angry now over a guy who comes on here furious that life hasn't been easy? Worst yet, his SON's life has been way too hard?

Honestly? Makes me wonder if you aren't a troll.
 
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#53
Lord,
Please make Drog angry enough to come back.

Please soften Angel Frog's heart.

And please give Drog the words and understanding he needs to hear.

Amen.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#54
Would it help drog with his more pressing problems? I'm left thinking Rick Warren is on the bottom of a very long list of things-not-working-as-expected.
If I didn't think it would, I wouldn't recommend it. (It costs me money every time I send a book to someone.)
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#55
I am finished with trusting God on a personal level. Either God is able to help, but unwilling, or he is willing but powerless to help.

Take your pick. If the former, then God is a liar and pretty much useless. If the latter, then I must learn that God is principle, not a personality. Either way, God does not involve himself in my life. He is not intervening on behalf of my son. He is not helping me at all. My whole life I have been looking to God and doing so in vain. Either God is the ultimate deadbeat dad, or God is just a principle or universal law.


It hurts, but it is time for me to grow up and let go of childhood myths.


Trolling.


I have to agree with the people who suggest you're trolling.



1. Your statement above is a classic atheist apologetic regarding theodicy...
and you didn't get it from reading Rick Warren, you got if from reading atheist apologists.

2. All you've done is complain, in various ways, to make a case for that atheist apologetic.

3. You haven't asked for prayer, for fellowship, for counseling, for biblical answers, for philosophical answers, for any kind of answers or solutions at all... you haven't asked any questions at all, you've just presented your apologetic.

4. Since you haven't been asking questions, it's clear you DON'T HAVE ANY. You aren't SEEKING anything, you're just here presenting an atheist apologetic.





 
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Feb 28, 2016
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#56
when I am able, hubby will take me to a local park and we will walk as far as I can
and then we will come back to our van and get-out our 50cent bread and feed the
ducks and geese and turtles and other species of aquatic birds...then we get out our
chairs and just sit and gaze in wonder at so many of Jesus' gracious gifts that our eyes
just cannot ever seem to get enough of...of course we cannot help but to know that it is our
Saviour who has been the Master-Mind' of our 'whole-entire-lives', and if we could be more
grateful, then I pray that our Lord will show us how...

looking-back, we both can vividly see how we served the 'world' and its ways' and we did it with
complete trust and faith that we were doing the very best that we could in our lives -
another words, we were 'totally-blind', even though we had 'both' been put through 'false-conversions',
hubby and I both being subjected to much and varied 'abuse' in this 'fallen-world'...

how in God's Name, could we ever, after ALL that we have been through, BELIEVE/TRUST HIM
when He spoke to us in the ways/manner that He chose...???

can you answer us, drog??? you seem to have all of the 'answers' that satisfy you...
 
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Fenner

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#57
My son is not the Messiah. Your point makes my point. Good news, my disciples--after I die, you will all be beaten, tortured, and killed. After you are all dead, the world will be in chaos, no peace, no order, and Islam will appear, and communism, and will kill millions of you. You should look forward to all this. It will be so rewarding.

My son is mentally ill. He is not one of the twelve. If God loved us, he would not put us in the situation where we will be slaughtered like sheep, burned alive, drowned in cages, skinned alive, buried alive, and crucified. What kind of father lets this happen to his children?

I have reached my breaking point with all this "walk by faith" stuff. God is not there when you need him, and there is no reward for doing what you think he wants of you.

I'm really sorry about your Son, I wish I had something better to say. You're obviously under a huge amount of stress. I don't want to sound all cliche but I wonder if maybe a support group with people who are in similar shoes as yours.

If the Purpose Driven Life isn't something you're getting anything from stop listening to it. It seems to be dredging up a lot of bad feelings for you and you don't need that. My stressful times are nothing like yours but my very well meaning Sister thinks I should go to this retreat called Koinia. I think that's how you spell it, but frankly I don't want to go. I am not much for sleeping in the same room as a bunch of strangers and I just don't want to. I think you know what works best for you.


If there's someone in your life that can help you with all that's on your shoulders I hope you talk to them. Again I'm sorry.
 
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#58
Trolling.


I have to agree with the people who suggest you're trolling.



1. Your statement above is a classic atheist apologetic regarding theodicy...
and you didn't get it from reading Rick Warren, you got if from reading atheist apologists.

2. All you've done is complain, in various ways, to make a case for that atheist apologetic.

3. You haven't asked for prayer, for fellowship, for counseling, for biblical answers, for philosophical answers, for any kind of answers or solutions at all... you haven't asked any questions at all, you've just presented your apologetic.

4. Since you haven't been asking questions, it's clear you DON'T HAVE ANY. You aren't SEEKING anything, you're just here presenting an atheist apologetic.
He sounds like me at post 374 of this thread.

Am I a troll too?

(I wouldn't be surprised to find out some do call me a troll.)
 
Apr 30, 2016
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#59
This is my life in Christ.

I went to see Jesus Christ Superstar and asked God to show me him as clearly as I could see that guy playing Jesus on the stage. I didn't go home after that musical. I was going back to my dysfunctional aunt and uncle's house, because my mother had already known she was dying of cancer when she left Dad a few months earlier and didn't want to burden her mother with taking care of her, two teenagers and one four year old brother. The next morning I woke up absolutely knowing God was real.

I had no idea what to do with that information, but on the way to school, I told my friend. She just happened to know about a Bible Study going on before school by some missionary.

He was the guy who mentored me and introduced me to a whole community of Christians. Several of them were also interns at the same hospital my mother was in and out of with her cancer. They laid hands on her and prayed. Then they told me God would heal her.

She died. She died, and I and my little brother were quickly whisked away to Dad's house 1500 miles away, in a subdivision 15 miles from town, and I didn't know how to drive, once more had my driver's licences. THAT's what God did to me.

EXCEPT, had he not done that to me, I would have never been forced to get to know my dad and take my first steps to figuring out how to be an adult by taking care of my five year old brother. (Tell me you would have come to love your son even more without all those trials. Can't say it, can you?)

And I rebelled against God for the first time in there. And I ended up being a druggie at college, barely making it through college only to find out I've got no skills to do what I wanted to do with that degree. (I wanted to be a high school English teacher. I stink at grammar.)

And I didn't make it unscathed. I went to friends house to tutor their son, and was returning home on a dark road by hitchhiking. Five guys picked me up and raped me. While raping me, one guy raised an ax over my head to tell me to shut up. I only had my coat on by that time, and I lowered the hood to give him a clean shot at my neck. He then raised a baseball bat above my head, and the same thing happened. I was not killed, despite desperately wanting to be killed. THAT was what God gave me. LIFE with a lot less pride!

And he gave it to me to get me to see how far I had fallen, and get me to go to drug rehab. (And, if you don't think that was God, I did not know that the friend I was helping by helping their son also was on the board of that rehab, until he told me about it. He was a pastor.)

So, I went through rehab, and helped others as they helped me. And about that time, I graduated with a degree in Communications, nix any use for the other part that says "Secondary Education," and poof! Got no where to go and nothing to do.

EXCEPT, God did that to me, because had I not failed miserably, I would have gone on to get a degree at Penn State in Communications, (was accepted, except didn't go because I would have had to live with Dad which meant no partying), been successful in some way in Communications, except at the wrong time and place to meet hubby. (Had we not met, both of us would be dead.) And, had I been a success, i would have gone on to teach high school English, instead of learn to help kids in schools to not even fall into getting stoned, as well as help other druggies through rehab. That rehab gave me my first full-time job, 15 weeks after graduating. (The college degree gave me a summer of cleaning other people's houses. lol) And after that job was over, I went on to find another job helping runaways and throwaways. (Which is when I met hubby at church.)

AND, had hubby not just gone through one hell of a marriage, getting physically abused by his wife (talking knives and razor blades here, not merely some slapping by a little woman), he would not have had two kids who were stuck with their insane mother so her insanity didn't include twisting them up one way and the other by disparaging their dad so much that they were terrified every Friday night when they had to go see him, and then cried every Sunday afternoon because they had to go back to the insanity that was their mother. And those two kids would have both gone crazy and not had their kids, who have now had their own kids.

So, he and I married. And after the problems we had right before we met each other, I asked God to give us a rest. He did.

Two years, two days. Then hubby broke his back. Not paralyzed, but his doctor called him Quasimodo, until he was fitted into a back brace. And he'd never be able to go back to what he did (HVAC mechanic.) And I was trying out the housewife thing, (and found out I'm not), so I had no job, thus no income. And God took care of all that.

My communications degree taught me how to write a great resume. Before we met, hubby had spent his time helping kids at Christian day camps, and teaching them how to work on houses, so we both had the background to help kids, and were chosen to be group home parents to six teenage boys. Couldn't afford food or shelter, but both were provided because God knew we needed it.

Just enough time for hubby's back to heal, because that was the world's worst job. (One boy ran away every night, doorbell rang every night between 3-5 AM with cops returning him, and little did we know that kid had raped a 10 year old, until after we already gave our notice. Good thing though. God worked that out too. After the job, the kid wanted to be emancipated, and the courts asked me my opinion, so I was able to tell why he was dangerous in society. No emanciation. A warrant instead.)

We rebuilt our lives after that. Hubby could not go back on the streets doing HVAC work, however working on a federal government base doing steam pipes was doable, because the government is very protective of their worker's safety. AND he got the job when there was a hiring freeze because a friend of his was leaving his job and recommended hubby. Things were going smoothly for a while. (Not too smoothly, since I have always had trouble finding a new job, but after all this time, I'm fully aware God takes care of us.)

My grandmother died, giving us enough down payment for a house, but after spending so long being broke, we decided to buy a small home we could afford even if just one of us could work.

Good thing. God at work again. BRAC hit. (A committee in Congress that decided which bases would be shut down.) Used to be a government job was the safest job, because they don't downsize. There went hubby's pension. His livelihood too, but it was the government, so they gave five years noticed and retrained. Hubby got into Computer Networking classes when the average salary was $172,000 a year.

13 months later, when he graduated, they were making $40,000 a year. I had a home based business going, that was just going into the black. Gallstones passing through got me into surgery, and whoever moved me off the operating table pinched a nerve in my back that felt just like something was wrong with my gallbladder... except I no longer had one.

Lost my business and my health, but doctors wouldn't tell me what happened for 15 years. (Statue of limitation for malpractice is 3 years.) End of 1999, or the Y2K bug.

Hubby's temp jobs for that year were fixing the Y2K bug. After that was fixed, the computer field was glutted, and after that three jets rammed into three buildings, causing no flying in the US for three days, causing many businesses to fail, and, oh yeah, the dotcommers lost a lot of businesses. Soooo, $172,000 a year became $30,000 a year WITH a college degree.

Ends up, God was in all that too. Had I been able to work, I would have. Had I been working, I wouldn't have had the time to nag hubby to go see the eye doctor about that blind spot in his eye. Had the eye doctor not told him it was caused by a rupture that would have been a stroke if it happened anywhere else in his head, besides his eye, he wouldn't have gone to our primary, who then took blood tests, who then found out it was a deep depression. He had Hepatitis C. I took care of him through treatment, because he was too sick to go to doctors!

We also ran out of money -- including our savings and retirement -- and we got foreclosure on the house, but God worked out us living on $839 a month with a $550 mortgage for a year, until hubby found out Hep C hid other health problems and the chemo wrecked his body in new ways, and he was disabled.

God was in that too. We're still in our house. We still eat. We still pay the bills.

And then there was his cancer, which should have been major surgery with a 14 inch incision, except God provided the booboo that made the resident blab a different way of taking care of it, so it was removed by freezing it with a long needle.

And if we weren't both disabled, I wouldn't have been home, when he decided that feeling in his abdomen was indigestion, not a heart attack, until four days later when he just couldn't breathe. and I wouldn't have been able to visit him in the hospital for the next 8 months to deal with doctors and crises....

And mostly? God was there, when I asked his will for my husband, when he should NOT have lived! And my husband is with me today.

God never promised us a rose garden! He promised us he'd be there for us and grow us into being more like him. We don't learn patience, trust, joy, kindness, endurance, perseverance, etc. by everything working out hunky dory. We learn it the hard way! And that IS God doing that for us!

Of course it hurts! We have to let go of ego and trust God. He HAS proven himself trustworthy. We have proven to be untrustworthy enough already. He is very real. Being mad at him does NOT stop him from being real, and you know this!!!
Hi Depleted,
Maybe sometime we'll be disagreeing about something or other.
But I just want you to know that I love you and pray for you.
As I hope you will do for me.

Fran
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
448
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#60
Trolling.


I have to agree with the people who suggest you're trolling.



1. Your statement above is a classic atheist apologetic regarding theodicy...
and you didn't get it from reading Rick Warren, you got if from reading atheist apologists.

2. All you've done is complain, in various ways, to make a case for that atheist apologetic.

3. You haven't asked for prayer, for fellowship, for counseling, for biblical answers, for philosophical answers, for any kind of answers or solutions at all... you haven't asked any questions at all, you've just presented your apologetic.

4. Since you haven't been asking questions, it's clear you DON'T HAVE ANY. You aren't SEEKING anything, you're just here presenting an atheist apologetic.





Not sure if he is a troll. I did google his name and a phrase or two from his posts and in the past few days an hours,he has posted on other Christian sights . Either looking for help or trying to drag others down . I suggest we pray for this man that The LORD helps this man find peace.
Blessings
Bill