To Troll or not to Troll,That is the Question

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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#41
Well yeah, but how much learning can get done when you're sincerely trying to help a troll, and someone keeps cutting in with "you're a fool to indulge that troll". That would kind of make me want to eventually say forget it and give up.. :/ It's hard to learn, or even teach for that matter, when someone constantly calls you a fool and an idiot for trying to help a troll, even if you DO realize the troll is playing you..



This seems to be true from time to time, though I'd say what can be even better than that, is having them do that yet they might think on something they might have never thought about until the visit here. Hopefully if all possible to be positive, though I'm the first to admit it can be challenging for them and me as well.. lol.. :) I think learning can be of a two way street per say, for God works in mysterious ways, and we don't really know where or when that will be. "eyes and ears open, slow to speak quick to think" is of great value, easier said than done indeed hehe..
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#42
Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post

This seems to be true from time to time, though I'd say what can be even better than that, is having them do that yet they might think on something they might have never thought about until the visit here. Hopefully if all possible to be positive, though I'm the first to admit it can be challenging for them and me as well.. lol.. I think learning can be of a two way street per say, for God works in mysterious ways, and we don't really know where or when that will be. "eyes and ears open, slow to speak quick to think" is of great value, easier said than done indeed hehe..
Well yeah, but how much learning can get done when you're sincerely trying to help a troll, and someone keeps cutting in with "you're a fool to indulge that troll". That would kind of make me want to eventually say forget it and give up.. :/ It's hard to learn, or even teach for that matter, when someone constantly calls you a fool and an idiot for trying to help a troll, even if you DO realize the troll is playing you..
Do you seriously think you are doing any teaching when you are giving exactly the answer the Troll expected you to give when he posted that pre-planned question that entangled you?

While you are telling yourself you are somehow "teaching", he is off looking for the next bogus question to copy. He isn't listening to a thing you say. He is waiting for you to finish so he can continue with his programed presentation. He will never listen to you until you openly and bluntly cut his plan short, and force him to actually speak words from his own heart.
 
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Mar 2, 2016
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#43
Do you seriously think you are doing any teaching when you are giving exactly the answer the Troll expected you to give when he posted that pre-planned question that entangled you?

While you are telling yourself you are somehow "teaching", he is off looking for the next bogus question to copy. He isn't listening to a thing you say. He is waiting for you to finish so he can continue with his programed presentation. He will never listen to you until you openly and bluntly cut his plan short, and force him to actually speak words from his own heart.
And sometimes he speaks from his heart and doesn't mean too. Frustrating them is sometimes the only way to accomplish it. By that point they start saying stuff that will get them banned.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#44
And sometimes he speaks from his heart and doesn't mean too. Frustrating them is sometimes the only way to accomplish it. By that point they start saying stuff that will get them banned.
But, the intent shouldn't be to get them banned, but to get them to quickly understand they have the choice to get themselves banned, or to join in on a rational conversation.... and that the upcoming ban will be strictly their choice.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#45
And sometimes he speaks from his heart and doesn't mean too. Frustrating them is sometimes the only way to accomplish it. By that point they start saying stuff that will get them banned.
That is a good tactic if it truly is your intention to just get them banned.

But, I think it is sometimes better to help them feel they can still have some control, and yet be able to stay, too.
 
Mar 2, 2016
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#46
That is a good tactic if it truly is your intention to just get them banned.

But, I think it is sometimes better to help them feel they can still have some control, and yet be able to stay, too.
I don't think it's my intention as much as they often they just make the choice to give up on someone who doesn't bite their hook. Then it becomes fun I suppose to insult.
 
Feb 5, 2017
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#47
I don't think the idea of labelling peoples as trolls is found anywhere in the Bible. No matter what the label, there is a person underneath, and when we label people it is pure ignorance really, and it is nothing like love, and therefore is not of a Godly nature. People can spew all kinds of things at me, but often, I wonder why, and where it comes from. I befriended some apparent trolls in my time (not here) to try and understand them better. One of them was very open about the attitude they have, and said that they looked to be judged, because they judged themselves a lot. I'll always remember that when I see someone apparently trolling, as to, what are they getting from it, does it 'truly' make them feel better, or is it some temporary gratification which is not helpful to themselves. I'd rather deal with trolls, than people who twist and distort words, because there is no end to what those type of people will say to counteract anything you say. And usually that comes from pride and anger put together, which to me is quite dangerous and toxic.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#48
Well yeah, but how much learning can get done when you're sincerely trying to help a troll, and someone keeps cutting in with "you're a fool to indulge that troll". That would kind of make me want to eventually say forget it and give up.. :/ It's hard to learn, or even teach for that matter, when someone constantly calls you a fool and an idiot for trying to help a troll, even if you DO realize the troll is playing you..
Well it is true this can happen when two peeps dig their heels in after while both parties can end up neck deep in it, so some wiping of the feet is necessary for ones peace of mind, yet that doesn't mean to run away and ignore them or act like they don't exists. Just wait until that person wants to talk again (legit), if they don't that's not the other person fault, a person can only reach out so far. The prog. story is a good one on that.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#49
I don't think it's my intention as much as they often they just make the choice to give up on someone who doesn't bite their hook. Then it becomes fun I suppose to insult.
Yeah, you do have a point there, I have seen that plenty.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#50
Well yeah, but how much learning can get done when you're sincerely trying to help a troll, and someone keeps cutting in with "you're a fool to indulge that troll". That would kind of make me want to eventually say forget it and give up.. :/ It's hard to learn, or even teach for that matter, when someone constantly calls you a fool and an idiot for trying to help a troll, even if you DO realize the troll is playing you..
Well it is true this can happen when two peeps dig their heels in after while both parties can end up neck deep in it, so some wiping of the feet is necessary for ones peace of mind, yet that doesn't mean to run away and ignore them or act like they don't exists. Just wait until that person wants to talk again (legit), if they don't that's not the other person fault, a person can only reach out so far. The prog. story is a good one on that.
Uh.......... She was talking about me cutting-in when she was "teaching" the Troll.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#51
So I hope this isn't improper. A thread was just closed. It was 30+ pages long and I came in on the end.I just got the truth of what the person was saying when the thread was closed. So here's the question,how do we know when a person is trolling? Ive called it before and been rebuked by all for saying so. So if you ought not to respond to a troll or trouble maker,what have you,how am I suppose to know who is or is not a troll? Any thoughts?
How about differentiating on troll/not-troll?

It is as if there's a prize if someone gets to claim "troll" first.

Meanwhile there is a young woman on this forum who apparently had quite a few people PMing her to give her the wonderful news that she is a troll, when, in reality? Probably not.

There was another guy in exhausting pain because of all the pain his son is in. He was furious at God. He got the "you're a troll" so fast, now he is furious at God and Christians. Peachy keen. The only differences between he and I one year ago were -- my husband, not my son. And, people knew me before my meltdown so gave me comfort. (Well, most did.)

There are two guys who stayed on here after being hounded for a good two weeks with the "you're a troll" game. You know what they really are? Neuro-atypical. The only reason they survived the hazing.

I can think of quite a few people who came and left after the trouncing. I remember them because they weren't trolls. They had serious mental illnesses. (Usually schzioaffective disorders, but I think one might have been on the downside of bipolar. Never had enough time to find out.) Still don't know how to deal with people like that, but I'm sure trouncing them with "TROLL" doesn't work, and certainly isn't what we're supposed to be doing as believers.

And then there really are trolls. They come in a few varieties too. The standard issue:
-- "I can prove to you that God isn't real."
-- "I am the prophet of God/Jesus himself."
-- "How far can I yank your chain?"
-- "How many posts of pure nonsense can I create before anyone calls me on it."

The first one bores me, because it's usually the same ole same ole with no ears to hear. BUT, what if we formed groups ourselves? I've got no more heart to listen to that garbage; however, if no one had that heart, my husband wouldn't be a believer today. He met a woman who knew her Bible inside out and backwards. Before her, he ran into marginal christians or babes, and he could slice and dice their beliefs to shreds. I see lots of people trying to prove God with that kind, but frankly, most of them can be sliced-and-diced. Can we, as a group, (compared to make this a thing the mods have to deal with), function in such a way that only those with the hearts to deal with those trolls, and the Bible background to kill the delusions being posed respond? And then the rest of us PM the newbies or babes to let them know that they should back away while the Evangelists/Apologists take center field for that battle? Or maybe create a warning/informational post saved, so any one of us can post as needed?

IDK. I do get there are trolls. I just don't think the default should be "assume troll until otherwise notified." And, I don't think once it's established that the person really is a troll, it's time to report. Sometimes it's past time to report, but most of the reporting we do is to sustain our comfort levels, and they're merely bogarting our buzz.

I still remember Willie made friends with a troll right before the guy was banned from previous infractions. That's one guy who might have stuck around and become real. (One guy. Came more than once, but later visits, a few of us caught on he was okay despite his antics.)

WWJD?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#52
From wikipedia:
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[SUP][1][/SUP] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[SUP][2][/SUP] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[SUP][3][/SUP] often for the troll's amusement.

So the troll does what?

~ Sows discord
~ Starts arguments
~ Upsets others
~ Posts inflammatory, extraneous or off-topic messages to provoke an emotional response
~ They're
amused by what they do
Not sure you're catching this, Rose, (since you're one of the few), but doesn't that describe about 90% of us on any given day of the week? lol

(And, yup. That amuses me too. lol)
 
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Depleted

Guest
#53
We had this discussion a few months back, and I think we came to the conclusion that some of us are better at recognizing troll behavior than others. And, while we don't want to mistakenly label someone a troll who is genuinely seeking, but just socially inept, we also don't want to waste days and days arguing with someone whose sole purpose is to create and encourage arguments.

This is why some of us will mention that we are seeing red flags, to hopefully alert others that a poster is exhibiting the signs of "troll-hood"...
And this is where we differ. I don't think anyone seeks God until after God reveals himself. And there's the problem -- God doesn't tell us which person we're running across -- one he has chosen or one he has not chosen. Therefore, how do we know we're wasting time?

Again, THREE weeks, every night after work -- until he had to go to bed to go to work the next day -- and every weekend most of the day, my husband trolled the godly wife of his coworker. (Coworker was a believer too, but he was the quiet curmudgeon, and his wife was the tireless evangelist. I bet he was amused by what was happening. lol) THREE weeks of hubby badgering them with the strict purpose of persuading them to stop believing in that foolish God.

And then God regenerated him sometime during the night and he woke up born again.

Who knows who God will keep deaf and who he will give ears to hear?

I really get most of us don't have that heart. I certainly don't. BUT do we keep kicking people off this site out of selfish reasons? Can't we be the quiet curmudgeons and let the tireless evangelists do their thing? I like both curmudgeon and tireless. Just because I'm curmudgeon doesn't mean I should let the tireless not be themselves.
 
Feb 5, 2017
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#54
Interesting you say that because there have been a few in high standing here who would fit in that category. :)

Not sure you're catching this, Rose, (since you're one of the few), but doesn't that describe about 90% of us on any given day of the week? lol

(And, yup. That amuses me too. lol)
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,639
1,392
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#55
The question remains....

To troll..... trolling motor.jpg

or NOT to troll.....

troll ban.png


THAT is the question.....
 
Feb 5, 2017
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#56
Well I meant the post of DesertRose
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,639
1,392
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#58
Being contentious is NOT being a troll. Everyone should know that. Trolls are people that come on the site only to start arguments, or to spread lies/falsehoods. Basically just cause disruption.

They are usually pretty easy to spot... once you recognize the behavior. Asking seemingly innocent questions, then totally ignoring the answers given, coming back to the same arguing point over and over... there are many signs. Some trolls are better at disguising their intentions, so it might take longer to see them for what they are.

I have no problem with someone who is truly wanting to learn, but is obstinate....even disagreeable...

it's the ones that have no intention of becoming a part of "the group" of CC'ers, who simply want to disrupt and cause dissent that I have heartburn with.

For those of you that remember "Yet".... several people called him a troll, but he was no more troll than I am. He was simply fixated on one topic, and every discussion led back to that...

There are those on this forum that are perpetually disagreeable, but that doesn't make them a troll...
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#59
How about differentiating on troll/not-troll?

It is as if there's a prize if someone gets to claim "troll" first.

Meanwhile there is a young woman on this forum who apparently had quite a few people PMing her to give her the wonderful news that she is a troll, when, in reality? Probably not.

There was another guy in exhausting pain because of all the pain his son is in. He was furious at God. He got the "you're a troll" so fast, now he is furious at God and Christians. Peachy keen. The only differences between he and I one year ago were -- my husband, not my son. And, people knew me before my meltdown so gave me comfort. (Well, most did.)

There are two guys who stayed on here after being hounded for a good two weeks with the "you're a troll" game. You know what they really are? Neuro-atypical. The only reason they survived the hazing.

I can think of quite a few people who came and left after the trouncing. I remember them because they weren't trolls. They had serious mental illnesses. (Usually schzioaffective disorders, but I think one might have been on the downside of bipolar. Never had enough time to find out.) Still don't know how to deal with people like that, but I'm sure trouncing them with "TROLL" doesn't work, and certainly isn't what we're supposed to be doing as believers.

And then there really are trolls. They come in a few varieties too. The standard issue:
-- "I can prove to you that God isn't real."
-- "I am the prophet of God/Jesus himself."
-- "How far can I yank your chain?"
-- "How many posts of pure nonsense can I create before anyone calls me on it."

The first one bores me, because it's usually the same ole same ole with no ears to hear. BUT, what if we formed groups ourselves? I've got no more heart to listen to that garbage; however, if no one had that heart, my husband wouldn't be a believer today. He met a woman who knew her Bible inside out and backwards. Before her, he ran into marginal christians or babes, and he could slice and dice their beliefs to shreds. I see lots of people trying to prove God with that kind, but frankly, most of them can be sliced-and-diced. Can we, as a group, (compared to make this a thing the mods have to deal with), function in such a way that only those with the hearts to deal with those trolls, and the Bible background to kill the delusions being posed respond? And then the rest of us PM the newbies or babes to let them know that they should back away while the Evangelists/Apologists take center field for that battle? Or maybe create a warning/informational post saved, so any one of us can post as needed?

IDK. I do get there are trolls. I just don't think the default should be "assume troll until otherwise notified." And, I don't think once it's established that the person really is a troll, it's time to report. Sometimes it's past time to report, but most of the reporting we do is to sustain our comfort levels, and they're merely bogarting our buzz.

I still remember Willie made friends with a troll right before the guy was banned from previous infractions. That's one guy who might have stuck around and become real. (One guy. Came more than once, but later visits, a few of us caught on he was okay despite his antics.)WWJD?
Thank you for that. But it deserves full disclosure that in my arrogance and impatience, I have also deliberately run off my fair share of people.

I still will confront someone when I think they are just BSing around. (I am actually doing it right now with Troy), but I am resolved to be much more quickly open with those I think are true trolls...... in the hopes that blunt, straightforward zeroing-in on their actions will help them realize they have found a place where some of us, sometimes, may try to actually address most real concerns they are truly interested in resolving.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#60
Good luck trying to figure THAT one out... he/she? was bouncing off the walls...
Jack is schizophrenic. Of course he's bouncing off the walls. There's the problem.

Back in the days we went to church, (before we both became disabled), we had a three members who were, literally, off their meds. (Well, one was on her meds, but the meds didn't bring her back to reality enough.) I admit it. I've got no clue how to deal with that. I really wish I knew because that has got to be permanently unsettling to that person.

We stayed away, except to be polite. But there were also people in our church who could treat them well -- friendly, curious, conversed, and even could talk to them about God. (I saw two people in that thread doing just that.) And not platitudes either. When the person was out of line, they would let them know and tell them the consequences for their behavior.

Because of that, and because the rest of us didn't constantly give them flack for what they couldn't help, two out of three stayed as members in that church. The third one was removed because he would not behave during service.

I'm not against having consequences against inappropriate behavior, but I saw the other side of that thread too. Some were attacking because either they couldn't get a straight answer, (which, by the very nature of the disease, you can't usually, but I noticed they can give answers that make some kind of sense, even if I disagreed with them), or because they were uncomfortable.

Honestly? What is more uncomfortable? Watching a serious mental health disease or having it?

It really does make me uncomfortable, but at least I can go to bed at night without a bunch of voices babbling nonsense in my head, and trying to constantly try to figure out how to get from A to B via Path 1, Path "feather + love = St. Louis," or circling my body with a match I lit and put out.

Jack is certifiable. Jack, somehow, understood two people in that thread. The two people are both sane.

I keep remembering Jesus took someone who was certifiable (in the way they described it back then), and placed that form of nuts right into a herd of pigs. We don't have that power. (Maybe God would use us if we all prayed.) But I saw just as bad, or worse, being thrown at Jack as what Jack was giving out in that thread.

We're sane. We're believers. This just ain't another forum. Shouldn't we be trying for better than this rather than SOP?

WWJD?