Odd Views: Art a Frivolous Thing

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ROSSELLA

Guest
#1
So in church on Sunday we talked about how God gave us artistic expression to glorify Him and I was surprised to hear the pastor mention how a lot of Christians view art as an unimportant or useless thing. This surprised me because what does the world demonstrate if not God's artistry? I was just wondering how common the idea that art is somehow worthless really is in the Christian community. Has anyone else heard of it?
 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
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#2
Hi rossella,

Sure, where i live, we cannot deny that mostly the can affords can truly find time to create, listen to/see most man-made art, and esp in the urban areas. But if God has put it in your heart to make/work on, search and listen to and see all kinds of art around us in nature and where we are (carving something, listening to morning birds or crickets, preparing that special dish, humming or whistling as we go about the day, drawing, or designing a pillow case, etc.), we can see art is all around us. And that it is very useful and not too expensive or far away as the cello or piano of the musicians at the concert hall (see who can afford cellos around here... not many), displays in museums, even real art materials=). Fortunately, there are other ways to be resourceful and make or learn that the Lord allows us to, and for that i am grateful.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
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#3
phil 1.jpg

God, Himself is an artist.
 

JonahLynx

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2014
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#4
It's definitely a view of the western world, where liberal arts make you sub-human to engineers and scientists. So I wouldn't be surprised if that mentality trickled into Christianity like pretty much everything else. Usually you aren't going to find someone who will outright say artists are inferior to mathematicians, but looking at group decisions and especially compensation will reveal the priorities real quick.
 

Pemican

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2014
954
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#5
I have not heard disparaging comments about people with real artistic ability in or outside of the church. I have heard that sort of thing about people who pretend they are artists and are really not. If you have the privilege of seeing a talented artist work all you can really say is "Wow! I wish I could do that, but I know I can't, it's not my gift." It can be a bit humbling.

I like to follow the work of a particular artist who does amazing paintings. She is truly great. Her paintings sell quickly for a lot of money, like $25,000 each, and she does at least one painting a week. I wish I could afford one. Her art is not worthless, it knocks your eyes out.
 
Last edited:
Feb 28, 2016
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#6
Just look what Jesus made out of clay...
 
T

Tinuviel

Guest
#7
That's a huge fat lie, but a lot of people sadly believe it. I bond with music. So I feel very close to God when I'm playing music, or singing praises to Him. I can't tell how many times I've thanked Him for the gift of music! Though, music tends to get less flack than painting or something; don't know why. Maybe because it is mentioned in scripture?
 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
4,927
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#8
That's a huge fat lie, but a lot of people sadly believe it. I bond with music. So I feel very close to God when I'm playing music, or singing praises to Him. I can't tell how many times I've thanked Him for the gift of music! Though, music tends to get less flack than painting or something; don't know why. Maybe because it is mentioned in scripture?
Some say because music is universal language... and w/ or w/out words it is easier to express stuff? And yes, here imagine a poor man w/ an easel, or even just paper and pencil seriously drawing and ppl would generally say he's wasting his time and to find better or real work. But if he was singing it is just 'normal.'
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#9
The only people I ever heard of that think art is worthless were the communists who ruled the soviet union back in the day. Even hitler had a deep appreciation for art and had his soldiers steal precious works all over europe for his private collection.
 
T

Tinuviel

Guest
#10
The only people I ever heard of that think art is worthless were the communists who ruled the soviet union back in the day. Even hitler had a deep appreciation for art and had his soldiers steal precious works all over europe for his private collection.
Christians who are more legalistic often speak of art as frivolous.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#11
I think it is more of an American attitude toward art than a Christian attitude. I really agree with Jonahlynx' statement. Americans are a practical people- we tend to think in terms of usefulness. This is why we think technology and inventions and things like this are more "important" than art. But it is art that makes us human- this God given ability to create and imagine. We are made in the image of God. He is the Supreme Creator. We are little creators. Only humans have this ability. It ought not to be disparaged. I don't know, but I think the statue of David is more important than a washing machine that turns itself on and washes your clothes without a person pushing any buttons.

I'm kind of passionate about this as I am teaching art and art history and appreciation this year. I think it is important.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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#12
Gone are the good old days when we taught Max Weber and washing machine appreciation.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#13
Gone are the good old days when we taught Max Weber and washing machine appreciation.
Are you an advocate of Utilitarianism? This made me think of the quote from Hard Times about why one should not buy carpets with flowered designs.

This is probably too long:
[FONT=&quot]‘
"This is a new principle, a discovery, a great discovery,’ said the gentleman. ‘Now, I’ll try you again. Suppose you were going to carpet a room. Would you use a carpet having a representation of flowers upon it?’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There being a general conviction by this time that ‘No, sir!’ was always the right answer to this gentleman, the chorus of NO was very strong. Only a few feeble stragglers said Yes: among them Sissy Jupe.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘Girl number twenty,’ said the gentleman, smiling in the calm strength of knowledge.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sissy blushed, and stood up.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘So you would carpet your room — or your husband’s room, if you were a grown woman, and had a husband — with representations of flowers, would you?’ said the gentleman. ‘Why would you?’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘If you please, sir, I am very fond of flowers,’ returned the girl.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘And is that why you would put tables and chairs upon them, and have people walking over them with heavy boots?’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘It wouldn’t hurt them, sir. They wouldn’t crush and wither, if you please, sir. They would be the pictures of what was very pretty and pleasant, and I would fancy — ’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘Ay, ay, ay! But you mustn’t fancy,’ cried the gentleman, quite elated by coming so happily to his point. ‘That’s it! You are never to fancy.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘You are not, Cecilia Jupe,’ Thomas Gradgrind solemnly repeated, ‘to do anything of that kind.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘Fact, fact, fact!’ said the gentleman. And ‘Fact, fact, fact!’ repeated Thomas Gradgrind.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘You are to be in all things regulated and governed,’ said the gentleman, ‘by fact. We hope to have, before long, a board of fact, composed of commissioners of fact, who will force the people to be a people of fact, and of nothing but fact. You must discard the word Fancy altogether. You have nothing to do with it. You are not to have, in any object of use or ornament, what would be a contradiction in fact. You don’t walk upon flowers in fact; you cannot be allowed to walk upon flowers in carpets. You don’t find that foreign birds and butterflies come and perch upon your crockery; you cannot be permitted to paint foreign birds and butterflies upon your crockery. You never meet with quadrupeds going up and down walls; you must not have quadrupeds represented upon walls. You must use,’ said the gentleman, ‘for all these purposes, combinations and modifications (in primary colours) of mathematical figures which are susceptible of proof and demonstration. This is the new discovery. This is fact. This is taste.’[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The girl curtseyed, and sat down. She was very young, and she looked as if she were frightened by the matter-of-fact prospect the world afforded."[/FONT]
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
#14
Utilitarian? Far from it.

I'm a humorist.

Are you an advocate of Utilitarianism? This made me think of the quote from Hard Times about why one should not buy carpets with flowered designs.

This is probably too long:

"This is a new principle, a discovery, a great discovery,’ said the gentleman. ‘Now, I’ll try you again. Suppose you were going to carpet a room. Would you use a carpet having a representation of flowers upon it?’
There being a general conviction by this time that ‘No, sir!’ was always the right answer to this gentleman, the chorus of NO was very strong. Only a few feeble stragglers said Yes: among them Sissy Jupe.
‘Girl number twenty,’ said the gentleman, smiling in the calm strength of knowledge.
Sissy blushed, and stood up.
‘So you would carpet your room — or your husband’s room, if you were a grown woman, and had a husband — with representations of flowers, would you?’ said the gentleman. ‘Why would you?’
‘If you please, sir, I am very fond of flowers,’ returned the girl.
‘And is that why you would put tables and chairs upon them, and have people walking over them with heavy boots?’
‘It wouldn’t hurt them, sir. They wouldn’t crush and wither, if you please, sir. They would be the pictures of what was very pretty and pleasant, and I would fancy — ’
‘Ay, ay, ay! But you mustn’t fancy,’ cried the gentleman, quite elated by coming so happily to his point. ‘That’s it! You are never to fancy.’
‘You are not, Cecilia Jupe,’ Thomas Gradgrind solemnly repeated, ‘to do anything of that kind.’
‘Fact, fact, fact!’ said the gentleman. And ‘Fact, fact, fact!’ repeated Thomas Gradgrind.
‘You are to be in all things regulated and governed,’ said the gentleman, ‘by fact. We hope to have, before long, a board of fact, composed of commissioners of fact, who will force the people to be a people of fact, and of nothing but fact. You must discard the word Fancy altogether. You have nothing to do with it. You are not to have, in any object of use or ornament, what would be a contradiction in fact. You don’t walk upon flowers in fact; you cannot be allowed to walk upon flowers in carpets. You don’t find that foreign birds and butterflies come and perch upon your crockery; you cannot be permitted to paint foreign birds and butterflies upon your crockery. You never meet with quadrupeds going up and down walls; you must not have quadrupeds represented upon walls. You must use,’ said the gentleman, ‘for all these purposes, combinations and modifications (in primary colours) of mathematical figures which are susceptible of proof and demonstration. This is the new discovery. This is fact. This is taste.’
The girl curtseyed, and sat down. She was very young, and she looked as if she were frightened by the matter-of-fact prospect the world afforded."
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,580
4,268
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#16
Christians who are more legalistic often speak of art as frivolous.
Yes, true. There are always those who dismiss art as nonsense, but I don't think it's tied to any particular group, except maybe hardcore scientists... but that's just a guess..
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
#18
Makes me want to read Hard Times, actually. That's one I've never dug into.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
#19
I think the best articulation on the worth of art is Solzhenitsyn's.

Going back to the OP though, I think historically the Christian views of art tend to ebb and flow based on the cultural connections of art makers.

A great book which handles the subject is Schaeffer's ​How Should We Then Live?
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#20
Makes me want to read Hard Times, actually. That's one I've never dug into.
To be honest, I haven't either. My youngest sister did, and one night while we were reading, she was so struck with the passage, she read it aloud to me.