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Thread: WORKS SALVATION

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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default WORKS SALVATION

    This is not in BDF because I'm hoping to have a quiet and civil conversation.

    You could use scripture or you could not. However, it is allowed to ask for scripture,
    of course, if necessary.

    So...

    I believe that one must obey God.
    I've been told that this is "works salvation" and that it is not a good thing.

    Would anyone care to explain exactly what Works Salvation is?

    Thanks.
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    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    This is not in BDF because I'm hoping to have a quiet and civil conversation.

    You could use scripture or you could not. However, it is allowed to ask for scripture,
    of course, if necessary.

    So...

    I believe that one must obey God.
    I've been told that this is "works salvation" and that it is not a good thing.

    Would anyone care to explain exactly what Works Salvation is?

    Thanks.
    Simply put,works salvation is the belief that you can do enough good things to earn your way into heaven. The Bible teaches against that.There is nothing we can do to earn salvation. With that being said I always say we are saved by faith for good works. Once we are saved we want to do good works,but it is faith that saves us.

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    Zi
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Works salvation as I understand is doing whats in the Bible because it is in there. That is working for your place or ticket in.

    verses doing whats in the Bible because it flows out naturally due to the change in you that is brought about by your relationship with God
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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Simply put,works salvation is the belief that you can do enough good things to earn your way into heaven. The Bible teaches against that.There is nothing we can do to earn salvation. With that being said I always say we are saved by faith for good works. Once we are saved we want to do good works,but it is faith that saves us.
    Hi Kaylagirl,

    I don't know any Church that teaches what you say ---- that you could do enough works to EARN your way into heaven.
    And that includes the Catholic Church who also teaches Ephesians 2:8. Sure of this.

    Of course we can't earn our own salvation! God is ALMIGHTY.

    So, is there a difference between saying that we are to obey God, or that it's necessary to obey God and works salvation?

    I mean, if I say that I believe we are required to obey God --- would you understand that to mean that I'm talking about works salvation??
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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Zi View Post
    Works salvation as I understand is doing whats in the Bible because it is in there. That is working for your place or ticket in.

    verses doing whats in the Bible because it flows out naturally due to the change in you that is brought about by your relationship with God
    If someone is reading the bible, aren't they searching for God and trying to do their best? This is good.

    However, yes, once one has met Jesus they change internally and they WANT to do good works (or whatever it's called).

    THIS is the Whole difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

    But if we do the works because there's an internal change, isn't it still right to say that we are to OBEY God?

    It seems to me that some have a problem with that wording. Just because we're saved, and know our Lord, He still expects us to obey Him....
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    This is not in BDF because I'm hoping to have a quiet and civil conversation.

    You could use scripture or you could not. However, it is allowed to ask for scripture,
    of course, if necessary.

    So...

    I believe that one must obey God.
    I've been told that this is "works salvation" and that it is not a good thing.

    Would anyone care to explain exactly what Works Salvation is?

    Thanks.
    Works salvation as I have had it explained to me is basically the idea that you're saved by grace, but you have to do good works to get to heaven. Which is a very sticky situation! That is basically saying that Christ isn't enough, and you need works to "help" yourself along. Totally not Biblical, since the Bible makes it very clear that Christ IS enough.

    But to say that we shouldn't work for Christ is also not Biblical. So...? I like the term saved BY grace FOR works. Works do not save us. They are merely an outgrowing of our faith given by grace.
    “If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for.”
    ~Charles Spurgeon

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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    If someone is reading the Bible just to find what "to do" but tries not to cultivate a relationship with God then that is works and does nothing for them. Sadly I know people who think this is enough
    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    If someone is reading the bible, aren't they searching for God and trying to do their best? This is good.

    However, yes, once one has met Jesus they change internally and they WANT to do good works (or whatever it's called).

    THIS is the Whole difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

    But if we do the works because there's an internal change, isn't it still right to say that we are to OBEY God?

    It seems to me that some have a problem with that wording. Just because we're saved, and know our Lord, He still expects us to obey Him....
    ,

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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    This is not in BDF because I'm hoping to have a quiet and civil conversation.

    You could use scripture or you could not. However, it is allowed to ask for scripture,
    of course, if necessary.

    So...

    I believe that one must obey God.
    I've been told that this is "works salvation" and that it is not a good thing.

    Would anyone care to explain exactly what Works Salvation is?

    Thanks.
    There are those who teach one must be baptized to be saved.
    There are those who teach that one must be a member of a certain church to be saved.
    There are those that you must speak in tongues to be saved.
    There are those who teach you must live a sinless life to be saved or to keep your salvation.
    There are those who teach you must KEEP your faith to keep your salvation.
    These are works because your salvation it is based on what you do or do not do and not on what Jesus did and continues to do.

    I have people in my area who teach these things.
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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Zi View Post
    If someone is reading the Bible just to find what "to do" but tries not to cultivate a relationship with God then that is works and does nothing for them. Sadly I know people who think this is enough
    OK. I do understand this.
    It would make the bible be an instruction manual.

    Which it is, but the spirit of God has to be present to be able to put the "parts" together.
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Fear God and Keep His Commandments, for this is the whole duty of MAN.'
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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by oldethennew View Post
    Fear God and Keep His Commandments, for this is the whole duty of MAN.'
    "Oh no, you're preaching works salvation!!"
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Persuaded View Post
    There are those who teach one must be baptized to be saved.
    There are those who teach that one must be a member of a certain church to be saved.
    There are those that you must speak in tongues to be saved.
    There are those who teach you must live a sinless life to be saved or to keep your salvation.
    There are those who teach you must KEEP your faith to keep your salvation.
    These are works because your salvation it is based on what you do or do not do and not on what Jesus did and continues to do.

    I have people in my area who teach these things.
    Thanks Pursuaded. I've been living out of the U.S. a very long time now. (the flag was a mistake because I AM American)

    I DO see a difference between GETTING SAVED and staying saved.
    I do believe that once we are saved we do have to keep our faith. If we don't, we go back to the condition we were in before...
    That would be be getting into eternal security and that's not why I'm here.

    As far as getting saved, yes, Jesus said IT IS FINISHED. He did everything He had to do to get us into the New Covenant.

    Thanks for your reply.

    I wish we could discuss your last item on the list, but I'm worried it might start an argument...
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    like uniformity.
    Every 'salvation' must hit certain points in the same order and way or its not true salvation
    Quote Originally Posted by Persuaded View Post
    There are those who teach one must be baptized to be saved.
    There are those who teach that one must be a member of a certain church to be saved.
    There are those that you must speak in tongues to be saved.
    There are those who teach you must live a sinless life to be saved or to keep your salvation.
    There are those who teach you must KEEP your faith to keep your salvation.
    These are works because your salvation it is based on what you do or do not do and not on what Jesus did and continues to do.

    I have people in my area who teach these things.
    ,

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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Thanks Pursuaded. I've been living out of the U.S. a very long time now. (the flag was a mistake because I AM American)

    I DO see a difference between GETTING SAVED and staying saved.
    I do believe that once we are saved we do have to keep our faith. If we don't, we go back to the condition we were in before...
    That would be be getting into eternal security and that's not why I'm here.

    As far as getting saved, yes, Jesus said IT IS FINISHED. He did everything He had to do to get us into the New Covenant.

    Thanks for your reply.

    I wish we could discuss your last item on the list, but I'm worried it might start an argument...
    I am sure it would!

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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Thanks Pursuaded. I've been living out of the U.S. a very long time now. (the flag was a mistake because I AM American)

    I DO see a difference between GETTING SAVED and staying saved.
    I do believe that once we are saved we do have to keep our faith. If we don't, we go back to the condition we were in before...
    That would be be getting into eternal security and that's not why I'm here.

    As far as getting saved, yes, Jesus said IT IS FINISHED. He did everything He had to do to get us into the New Covenant.

    Thanks for your reply.

    I wish we could discuss your last item on the list, but I'm worried it might start an argument...
    Have you ever known anyone who has "lost their faith"?
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuviel View Post
    Works salvation as I have had it explained to me is basically the idea that you're saved by grace, but you have to do good works to get to heaven. Which is a very sticky situation! That is basically saying that Christ isn't enough, and you need works to "help" yourself along. Totally not Biblical, since the Bible makes it very clear that Christ IS enough.

    But to say that we shouldn't work for Christ is also not Biblical. So...? I like the term saved BY grace FOR works. Works do not save us. They are merely an outgrowing of our faith given by grace.
    Hi T,

    Yes, this is the confusion I have also. Not for ME, but for how Others explain it to me.
    We ARE saved by grace through faith.

    We DO have to do good works because Jesus said so. He said to do as He commanded.
    NOT to "help me along" but because HE said so.

    This is when I'm told I believe in works salvation. It's quite confusing to say the least.

    You said that works are an outgrowing of our faith.
    Perfect.
    OK. So what if I STOP doing anything, go back to m old ways because anyway I'm saved by grace????
    I see this as very wrong...
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Some teach certain things must take place or you're not saved when reality the Spirit works with all of us differently.. My process won't look like yours. When im asked to conform that is works based
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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Persuaded View Post
    Have you ever known anyone who has "lost their faith"?
    Well, actually I have. But then the person who believes in eternal salvation will say that they were never saved to begin with!
    (which is doing something we're not supposed to do --- judge another person's soul)

    Actually, that's not the item on the list that I was talking about.

    It was this item...:

    These are works because your salvation it is based on what you do or do not do and not on what Jesus did and continues to do.
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    our 'works' don't get us into heaven, our Love, Calling, and Faith does this, but what we do
    with these 'gifts' is where we are 'placed' when we get there...
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    Default Re: WORKS SALVATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Persuaded View Post
    Have you ever known anyone who has "lost their faith"?
    I have, Persuaded.
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