Do you stifle your thinking?

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Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
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#1
I discovered I sometimes do....... when I read this.

Much of the Bible is written in symbols. A helpful way to understand this, perhaps, would be to speak of these symbols as a set of patterns and associations. By this I mean that Biblical symbolism is not a code. It is, instead, a way of seeing, a perspective. For example, when Jesus speaks of "living water" (John 4:10), we rightly recognize that He is using water as a symbol. We understand that when He spoke to the woman at the well, He was not merely offering her "water." He was offering her eternal life. But He called it "water." We should immediately ask: Why did He do that? He could have simply said "eternal life." Why did He speak in metaphor? Why did He want her to think of water?

Now this is where we can make a big mistake, and this is the primary error of some interpreters who try to take a "symbolic" approach. It is to think that Biblical symbolism is primarily a puzzle for us to solve. We can suddenly decide: "Aha! Water is a special code-word which means eternal life. That means that whenever the Bible talks about water symbolically, it is really talking about eternal life; whenever someone takes a drink, he is really becoming a Christian." It just doesn't work that way (as you will see if you try to apply it throughout the Bible). Besides, what sense would it make for the Bible simply to put everything in code? The Bible is not a book for spies and secret societies; it is God's revelation of Himself to His covenant people. The puzzle-solving, mystical interpretation tends to be speculative; it does not pay sufficient attention to the way the Bible itself speaks.

When Jesus offered "water" to the woman, He wanted her to think of the multiple imagery connected with water in the Bible. In a general sense, of course, we know that water is associated with the Spiritual refreshment and sustenance of life which comes through salvation. But the Biblical associations with water are much more complex than that. This is because understanding Biblical symbolism does not mean cracking a code. It is much more like reading good poetry.

The symbolism of the Bible is not structured in a flat, this-means-that style. Instead, it is meant to be read visually. We are to see the images rise before us in succession, layer upon layer, allowing them to evoke a response in our minds and hearts. The prophets did not write in order to create stimulating intellectual exercises. They wrote to teach. They wrote in visual, dramatic symbols; and if we would fully understand their message we must appreciate their vocabulary. We must read the Bible visually. The visual symbols themselves, and what the Bible says about them, are important aspects of what God wants us to learn; otherwise, He wouldn't have spoken that way.

So, when the Bible tells us a story about water, it is not "really" telling us about something else; it is telling us about water. But at the same time, we are expected to see the water, and to think of the Biblical associations with regard to water. The system of interpretation offered here is neither "literalistic" nor "symbolic"; it takes the "water" seriously and literally, but it also takes seriously what God's Word associates with water throughout the history of Biblical revelation.

What are some of the Biblical associations which might have occurred to the woman at the well, and to the disciples? Here are a few of them:
1. The watery, fluid mass that was the original nature of the earth at the creation, and out of which God formed all life (Gen. 1);
2. The great river of Eden that watered the whole earth (Gen. 2);
3. The salvation of Noah and his family by the waters of the
Flood, out of which the earth was re-created (Gen. 6-9);
4. God's gracious revelations to Hagar by a fountain (Gen. 16) and a well (Gen. 21);
5. The well called Rehoboth, where God gave Isaac dominion (Gen. 26);
6. The river out of which the infant Moses, the future Deliverer of Israel, was taken and made a prince (Ex.2);
7. The redemptive crossing of the Red Sea, where God again saved His people by water (Ex. 14);
8. The water that flowed from the stricken Rock at Sinai, giving life to the people (Ex. 17);
9. The many ritual sprinklings in the Old Testament, signifying the removal of filth, pollution, sickness and death, and the bestowal of the Spirit upon the priests (e.g., Lev. 14; Num. 8);
10. The crossing of the Jordan River (Josh. 3);
11. The sound of rushing waters made by the pillar of cloud (Ezek. 1);
12. The River of Life flowing from the Temple and healing the Dead Sea (Ezek. 47).

Thus, when the Bible speaks of water, we are supposed to have in our minds a vast host of associative concepts, a complex of Biblical images that affects our thinking about water. To put it differently, water is supposed to be something like a "buzz-word," a term that calls up many associations and connotations. When we read the word water we should be reminded of God's saving acts and revelations by water throughout Scripture. The Bible uses many of these "buzz-words," and increases the number of them as it goes on; until, by the time we get to Revelation (the capstone of Biblical prophecy), they all come rushing toward us at once, in a blizzard of associative references, some of which are obvious, some obscure. To the one who really knows his Bible and has noted the literary patterns and images, much of the book will look familiar; to the rest of us, it's confusing. In Revelation, we are confronted with all the Biblical connotations of numerous images: not only water, but light, fire, clouds, angels, stars, lamps, food, stones, swords, thrones, rainbows, robes, thunder, voices, animals, wings, scavengers, eyes, keys, trumpets, plagues, mountains, winds, seas, altars, blood, locusts, trees, heads, horns, and crowns.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#2
Revelation also presents us with pictures of a Woman, a Dragon, a wilderness, a mark in the forehead, a sickle, pearls, a winepress, a cup of wine, a Harlot, a river, Sodom, Egypt, Babylon, resurrection, a wedding, a marriage supper, the Bridegroom, and the Bride/City in the shape of a pyramid. And then there's the use of symbolic numbers: two, three, four, seven, ten, twelve, and multiples thereof-24, 42, 144, 666, 1,000, 1,260, 7,000, 12,000, and 144,000.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#3
Revelation 22:17
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" Let the one who hears say, "Come!" And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

Revelation 21:6
And He told me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life.

John 7:38
To the one who believes in Me, it is just as the Scripture has said: 'Streams of living water will flow from within him.'"

Isaiah 55:1
"Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost.

Revelation 3:18
I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#4
I'm glad someone read this. Several days ago, I tried to get some opinions about what people thought the mention of "Sun, Moon, and Stars" meant in Biblical text. Only one person risked answering the question.

Makes me wonder just how many people either have no idea, or have made the conclusive leap that the mention of any symbolic reference is actually a "code" word..... and thereafter, always carries that particular and specific alternate meaning.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#5
I'm glad someone read this. Several days ago, I tried to get some opinions about what people thought the mention of "Sun, Moon, and Stars" meant in Biblical text. Only one person risked answering the question.

Makes me wonder just how many people either have no idea, or have made the conclusive leap that the mention of any symbolic reference is actually a "code" word..... and thereafter, always carries that particular and specific alternate meaning.
here's a deep meaning of the Sun, Moon, Stars, though anybody reading this I'm not implying to worship the sun or any other objects in the sky at all, Just a symbolic meanings.

Jesus, cross, sheep
 

G00WZ

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
1,313
447
83
37
#6
I discovered I sometimes do....... when I read this.

Much of the Bible is written in symbols. A helpful way to understand this, perhaps, would be to speak of these symbols as a set of patterns and associations. By this I mean that Biblical symbolism is not a code. It is, instead, a way of seeing, a perspective. For example, when Jesus speaks of "living water" (John 4:10), we rightly recognize that He is using water as a symbol. We understand that when He spoke to the woman at the well, He was not merely offering her "water." He was offering her eternal life. But He called it "water." We should immediately ask: Why did He do that? He could have simply said "eternal life." Why did He speak in metaphor? Why did He want her to think of water?

Now this is where we can make a big mistake, and this is the primary error of some interpreters who try to take a "symbolic" approach. It is to think that Biblical symbolism is primarily a puzzle for us to solve. We can suddenly decide: "Aha! Water is a special code-word which means eternal life. That means that whenever the Bible talks about water symbolically, it is really talking about eternal life; whenever someone takes a drink, he is really becoming a Christian." It just doesn't work that way (as you will see if you try to apply it throughout the Bible). Besides, what sense would it make for the Bible simply to put everything in code? The Bible is not a book for spies and secret societies; it is God's revelation of Himself to His covenant people. The puzzle-solving, mystical interpretation tends to be speculative; it does not pay sufficient attention to the way the Bible itself speaks.

When Jesus offered "water" to the woman, He wanted her to think of the multiple imagery connected with water in the Bible. In a general sense, of course, we know that water is associated with the Spiritual refreshment and sustenance of life which comes through salvation. But the Biblical associations with water are much more complex than that. This is because understanding Biblical symbolism does not mean cracking a code. It is much more like reading good poetry.

The symbolism of the Bible is not structured in a flat, this-means-that style. Instead, it is meant to be read visually. We are to see the images rise before us in succession, layer upon layer, allowing them to evoke a response in our minds and hearts. The prophets did not write in order to create stimulating intellectual exercises. They wrote to teach. They wrote in visual, dramatic symbols; and if we would fully understand their message we must appreciate their vocabulary. We must read the Bible visually. The visual symbols themselves, and what the Bible says about them, are important aspects of what God wants us to learn; otherwise, He wouldn't have spoken that way.

So, when the Bible tells us a story about water, it is not "really" telling us about something else; it is telling us about water. But at the same time, we are expected to see the water, and to think of the Biblical associations with regard to water. The system of interpretation offered here is neither "literalistic" nor "symbolic"; it takes the "water" seriously and literally, but it also takes seriously what God's Word associates with water throughout the history of Biblical revelation.

What are some of the Biblical associations which might have occurred to the woman at the well, and to the disciples? Here are a few of them:
1. The watery, fluid mass that was the original nature of the earth at the creation, and out of which God formed all life (Gen. 1);
2. The great river of Eden that watered the whole earth (Gen. 2);
3. The salvation of Noah and his family by the waters of the
Flood, out of which the earth was re-created (Gen. 6-9);
4. God's gracious revelations to Hagar by a fountain (Gen. 16) and a well (Gen. 21);
5. The well called Rehoboth, where God gave Isaac dominion (Gen. 26);
6. The river out of which the infant Moses, the future Deliverer of Israel, was taken and made a prince (Ex.2);
7. The redemptive crossing of the Red Sea, where God again saved His people by water (Ex. 14);
8. The water that flowed from the stricken Rock at Sinai, giving life to the people (Ex. 17);
9. The many ritual sprinklings in the Old Testament, signifying the removal of filth, pollution, sickness and death, and the bestowal of the Spirit upon the priests (e.g., Lev. 14; Num. 8);
10. The crossing of the Jordan River (Josh. 3);
11. The sound of rushing waters made by the pillar of cloud (Ezek. 1);
12. The River of Life flowing from the Temple and healing the Dead Sea (Ezek. 47).

Thus, when the Bible speaks of water, we are supposed to have in our minds a vast host of associative concepts, a complex of Biblical images that affects our thinking about water. To put it differently, water is supposed to be something like a "buzz-word," a term that calls up many associations and connotations. When we read the word water we should be reminded of God's saving acts and revelations by water throughout Scripture. The Bible uses many of these "buzz-words," and increases the number of them as it goes on; until, by the time we get to Revelation (the capstone of Biblical prophecy), they all come rushing toward us at once, in a blizzard of associative references, some of which are obvious, some obscure. To the one who really knows his Bible and has noted the literary patterns and images, much of the book will look familiar; to the rest of us, it's confusing. In Revelation, we are confronted with all the Biblical connotations of numerous images: not only water, but light, fire, clouds, angels, stars, lamps, food, stones, swords, thrones, rainbows, robes, thunder, voices, animals, wings, scavengers, eyes, keys, trumpets, plagues, mountains, winds, seas, altars, blood, locusts, trees, heads, horns, and crowns.
I just see it as He was offering himself/ the spirit, the endless source of life.. He attributes it to water, because
like bodies of water they seem endless... and even speaking in a non spiritual sense to a natural minded person, they know how essential water is.. So its like he is speaking spiritually and to the carnal/ natural minded person on both levels so anyone can get the gist of what he is saying... And for the spiritually minded person who sees it, they can always go deeper in scripture to find out deeper meanings of the truth, because there are always links that tie it all together.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#7
I know lots on here are sceptical about dreams, but i frequently get Godly
dreams full of symbolism. God still uses symbolism to speak to people. :)

Just an example, I had a dream where I was stood by the kitchen sink. I turned the
tap on but instead of the water going down the drain, it shot up to the ceiling like a
fountain. There was no ceiling and therefore no limit on how high the water could go.
It just gushed up.

Thats also true of the living water in the bible, it has no limits, never runs out.
But we don't always go with the flow, we just paddle in it.

See also the river - how far will we wade in. We make limits but the reality is there is
none.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#8
I'm glad someone read this. Several days ago, I tried to get some opinions about what people thought the mention of "Sun, Moon, and Stars" meant in Biblical text. Only one person risked answering the question.

Makes me wonder just how many people either have no idea, or have made the conclusive leap that the mention of any symbolic reference is actually a "code" word..... and thereafter, always carries that particular and specific alternate meaning.
I think sometimes people don't answer because they know their words will be met with a b-slap and not thoughtful consideration.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#9
I think sometimes people don't answer because they know their words will be met with a b-slap and not thoughtful consideration.
Sounds like a heck of a fearful way to go through life.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#10
I know lots on here are sceptical about dreams, but i frequently get Godly
dreams full of symbolism. God still uses symbolism to speak to people. :)

Just an example, I had a dream where I was stood by the kitchen sink. I turned the
tap on but instead of the water going down the drain, it shot up to the ceiling like a
fountain. There was no ceiling and therefore no limit on how high the water could go.
It just gushed up.

Thats also true of the living water in the bible, it has no limits, never runs out.
But we don't always go with the flow, we just paddle in it.

See also the river - how far will we wade in. We make limits but the reality is there is
none.
That's neat.
 
Y

Yahweh_is_gracious

Guest
#11
Sounds like a heck of a fearful way to go through life.
It has nothing to do with fear. It's simply a matter of not wanting to listen to "teaching" for every response to a post.
 
Y

Yahweh_is_gracious

Guest
#13
Does someone come to a forum like this just to have their ideas verified?
Willie, don't be silly. You already know the answer to that just as well as I do. Let's try thinking in more than 2 dimensions, shall we? It's not an either/or situation...very little involving human behavior is.

I theorize that it's possible for people to have a discussion about religion without some yahoo barging in trying to teach everyone his perplexing ideas while at the same time brow beating everyone who doesn't agree with him. I theorize this is possible, but thus far, I've never seen it.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#14
I think sometimes people don't answer because they know their words will be met with a b-slap and not thoughtful consideration.
========================================================

this is very true Rick, but as we 'grow-up' into Christ, our Swords should also be growing
hand-in-hand; this is our Saviour's way of teaching us to Trust in Him and Love Him more and more:
what can prevail against such an Holy Connection?