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Thread: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

  1. #41
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    I see America being at the centre of many problems in the world and the middle east, while trying to portray itself as the good shepherd, and the good policeman. But you will absolutely disagree, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    mj006i,

    Thank you for not answering any of my specific objections to your previous post.

    It verifies you have no objective argument... you're just bashing a country you don't happen to like.




    Thanks for clearing that up.
    Galatea likes this.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Not at all, but no doubt you will be right and I will be wrong, right? :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeraza_Bats View Post
    It seems to be his only reason for being here.

  3. #43
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    Default The American Flag IS NOT American?

    I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but...if I may offer a supposition?

    The American flag is not American...it's BRITISH!

    If you look into the REAL history of the USA, Inc. flag, not what's been spoon-fed to the masses...well...if you want to know, you'll research it.

    UK vs USA - American Flags That Include The British Union Jack
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce9rmHN6Hs4

    http://www.civil-liberties.com/books/

    http://www.civil-liberties.com/books/colony2.html

    "After writing British Colony parts 1 and 2, I was amazed how some people react, when confronted with information that goes against their prior programming. It is as if to even consider the possibility that their belief system may be incorrect, was a threat to their mental well being."



    Care for a little more REAL history?

    Hawaii is not legally a state!
    Hawaii is not legally a state! | WHAT REALLY HAPPENED





    "Territories"

    I see the Middle Kingdom between Heaven and Earth
    Like the Chinese call the country of their birth
    We all figure that our homes are set above
    Other people than the ones we know and love
    In every place with a name
    They play the same territorial game
    Hiding behind the lines
    Sending up warning signs

    The whole wide world
    An endless universe
    Yet we keep looking through
    The eyeglass in reverse
    Don't feed the people
    But we feed the machines
    Can't really feel
    What international means
    In different circles, we keep holding our ground
    In different circles, we keep spinning round and round

    We see so many tribes overrun and undermined
    While their invaders dream of lands they've left behind
    Better people...better food...and better beer...
    Why move around the world when Eden was so near?
    The bosses get talking so tough
    And if that wasn't evil enough
    We get the drunken and passionate pride
    Of the citizens along for the ride


    They shoot without shame
    In the name of a piece of dirt

    For a change of accent
    Or the color of your shirt
    Better the pride that resides
    In a citizen of the world
    Than the pride that divides
    When a colorful rag is unfurled



    Peace.


    Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
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  4. #44
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    So tell me, does anyone else in the world have a thread on this site called 'why everyone from my country should stand and honor our countries flag'? Most likely not. It's a prideful thread, but you won't see that, and no matter what I say, you will never see it. However, if you are not from America you might agree.
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    So tell me, does anyone else in the world have a thread on this site called 'why everyone from my country should stand and honor our countries flag'? Most likely not. It's a prideful thread, but you won't see that, and no matter what I say, you will never see it. However, if you are not from America you might agree.
    Thinking on making a thread on why Texans should stand and honor our flag. LOL.
    preacher4truth likes this.
    AWV

  6. #46
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    I see America being at the centre of many problems in the world and the middle east, while trying to portray itself as the good shepherd, and the good policeman. But you will absolutely disagree, of course.
    You are equivocating 2 completely different issues.

    1. How the U.S., at the NATIONAL GOVERNMENTAL LEVEL, which is BEYOND the control of any normal citizen, should conduct itself internationally... that is one issue.
    2. The fact that the ORDINARY CITIZENS of all nations, the u.s. included, have love for, and pride in, their homeland... that is another issue.


    You are conflating two entirely distinct issues.

    Most people of the world have love for their homeland, and most people of the world simultaeneously recognize their homeland isn't entirely perfect.


    You are conflating 2 entirely different issues.
    1. This is committing an error of logical equivocation.
    2. On top of that, you have enormous epistemic problems trying to prove there even IS such a thing as "too much pride in your country", let alone, the epistemic problem of how precisely that could possibly be measured, and then the problem of just who precisely has the qualifications to measure it.


    Conclusion:
    - If you don't like America, that's fine.
    - If you don't like Americans, that's fine.
    - But your arguments are illogical on numerous levels, and they fall under their own weight as nothing more than your personal, subjective opinions.





    I've already put more time into this thread than could possibly be needed.
    I'm done here, I won't be responding to anything else in this thread.
    Have fun everyone.
    Last edited by maxwel; October 6th, 2017 at 08:38 PM.

  7. #47
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    People here conflate being patriotic with being Christian. One person challenged me on that, and said they are both the same thing.

    Uh. Huh.

    Anyhow, I told her you have to be born again to be a Christian. Hold on to your buttocks, here was her response:

    "What does being born again have to do with being a Christian?"
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Well it would be a very popular thread of course. Anything that glorifies any part of your country or your belief system, gains attention.

    Here's an idea, start a thread called 'I Love America Because...' that would be a perfect American counter to my apparent dislike for America. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Susanna View Post
    Thinking on making a thread on why Texans should stand and honor our flag. LOL.
    Galatea likes this.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Well being a Christian is a label, a label for a path you are on. So in a sense being born again is being born again. The idea of being a good or bad Christian is kind of childish really. Many say they are Christian and are not born again. But what is good at the very least, is that someone is on the Christian path, however far they have got, or however much they struggle.

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    People here conflate being patriotic with being Christian. One person challenged me on that, and said they are both the same thing.

    Uh. Huh.

    Anyhow, I told her you have to be born again to be a Christian. Hold on to your buttocks, here was her response:

    "What does being born again have to do with being a Christian?"
    Galatea likes this.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    Well it would be a very popular thread of course. Anything that glorifies any part of your country or your belief system, gains attention.

    Here's an idea, start a thread called 'I Love America Because...' that would be a perfect American counter to my apparent dislike for America. :-)
    I love England too. I can still recall my first visit back in the 90s.
    Galatea likes this.
    AWV

  11. #51
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    Well...
    You're oblivious as to my statement. Way over your head. You've missed it entirely.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Innerfire89's Avatar
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    American Pride is about becoming a sheep and a slave to a system. It's no different from every other country or empire that uses the same tactics, teaching you this when you are a child. You grow up with some huge pride in your amazing country, and allow it to do whatever it wants in the world, because it CAN do what it wants, its the 'greatest' country on earth of course. Kill innocent people when you take out the bad guys? Of course, as long as they are not American it's ok!

    It's really weird and bizarre how some American's defend 'their country' and 'their flag'. It just seems a bit robotic, with no spiritual basis, just a material one. They are God-neutered when they are a child, and then think that they know more about God than everyone else when they are older! No wonder 70% of Americans take at least one prescription drug. I guess God can't cure everything. Wait there... it must have been God that advised them to take meds. Yes there is a spiritual answer to everything, so of course that must be it. America, the land of having an answer for everything, and being right about everything. What a dream!

    All the best military arsenal on the planet and you can't even take out ISIS, and you let your weapons fall into their hands (by accident?). The Russians come along, and actually SAVE people, innocent Syrian people. I'm so glad the Russians intervened, and all you can do is rebuke them. Rebuke them while they try to get rid of ISIS.
    That quite an assumption, you seriously think anyone here supports the killing of innocent people? Where do you get that idea?
    How are we neutered of God, I grew up going to church every Sunday, we had the ten commandments in the courthouses before some athirst got his panties in a was.

    God can allow healing though medication, God doesn't promise to cure everything it's is still his will if one gets better or not. Did Paul not tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomahe? Same principle.

    Does Isis wear uniforms? Do they have a base somewhere that everyone knows about. No.
    They hide hide their location and identity until they're ready to kill a bunch of people. What difference do weapons make?


    The only reason you came into this thread was to spew hate and be offensive, a very discuting way to behave on a site for Christian fellowship.
    Matthew 22:37
    "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind" and " Love your neighbor as you love yourself."


    A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw God's truth attacked and yet keep silent. John Calvin

  13. #53
    Senior Member Innerfire89's Avatar
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    I see America being at the centre of many problems in the world and the middle east, while trying to portray itself as the good shepherd, and the good policeman. But you will absolutely disagree, of course.
    Islam is the source of problems in the middle east. The problems the world has are all from sin and satanic lies.
    oldethennew likes this.
    Matthew 22:37
    "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind" and " Love your neighbor as you love yourself."


    A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw God's truth attacked and yet keep silent. John Calvin

  14. #54
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    And you can say that, there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not going to sit here and dissect your points of view, or strict analysis. We all have different points of view. Nothing is really illogical, only little understood, or maybe unelaborated. If one argues what you look like but neither has a mirror, usually the 3rd party sees more than the person who cannot see themselves. I embrace any thoughts on myself. But while I talk about America, Americans most often react, and see it as a reason to attack me subtly. It's ok, I just observe it, every single time. Of course I'm not going to continue down the path of, why that is, because I'll be hitting my head against a brick wall. However if I'm having the conversation with a fellow observer it's a different matter, with often honest answers.

    North Korea has a lot of pride in their country. Good for them? Probably. Good for everyone else? Probably not. I guess the point of too much pride is when it not only becomes isolative, but when it becomes aggressive. America is more of a threat than North Korea, but because you are American and probably have a different stream of facts coming at you, North Korea is probably a massive threat to the world.

    It was ISIS, but the Russians have fixed that threat. Time to find another threat. There always appears to be a threat in the world that America needs to be a part of the solution for. I personally just think it is all to do with weapon sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    You are equivocating 2 completely different issues.

    1. Ho
    w the U.S., at the NATIONAL GOVERNMENTAL LEVEL, which is BEYOND the control of any normal citizen, should conduct itself internationally... that is one issue.
    2. The fact that the ORDINARY CITIZENS of all nations, the u.s. included, have love for, and pride in, their homeland... that is another issue.


    You are conflating two entirely distinct issues.

    Most people of the world have love for their homeland, and most people of the world simultaeneously recognize their homeland isn't entirely perfect.


    You are conflating 2 entirely different issues.
    1. This is committing an error of logical equivocation.
    2. On top of that, you have enormous epistemic problems trying to prove there even IS such a thing as "too much pride in your country", let alone, the epistemic problem of how precisely that could possibly be measured, and then the problem of just who precisely has the qualifications to measure it.


    Conclusion:
    - If you don't like America, that's fine.
    - If you don't like Americans, that's fine.
    - But your arguments are illogical on numerous levels, and they fall under their own weight as nothing more than your personal, subjective opinions.





    I've already put more time into this thread than could possibly be needed.
    I'm done here, I won't be responding to anything else in this thread.
    Have fun everyone.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Where there is war or military intervention there is always collateral. Maybe I'm a pacifist but I believe there are always political solutions to problems, rather than military.

    Quote Originally Posted by Innerfire89 View Post
    That quite an assumption, you seriously think anyone here supports the killing of innocent people? Where do you get that idea?
    How are we neutered of God, I grew up going to church every Sunday, we had the ten commandments in the courthouses before some athirst got his panties in a was.

    God can allow healing though medication, God doesn't promise to cure everything it's is still his will if one gets better or not. Did Paul not tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomahe? Same principle.

    Does Isis wear uniforms? Do they have a base somewhere that everyone knows about. No.
    They hide hide their location and identity until they're ready to kill a bunch of people. What difference do weapons make?


    The only reason you came into this thread was to spew hate and be offensive, a very discuting way to behave on a site for Christian fellowship.
    Galatea likes this.

  16. #56
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    And you can say that, there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not going to sit here and dissect your points of view, or strict analysis. We all have different points of view. Nothing is really illogical, only little understood, or maybe unelaborated. If one argues what you look like but neither has a mirror, usually the 3rd party sees more than the person who cannot see themselves. I embrace any thoughts on myself. But while I talk about America, Americans most often react, and see it as a reason to attack me subtly. It's ok, I just observe it, every single time. Of course I'm not going to continue down the path of, why that is, because I'll be hitting my head against a brick wall. However if I'm having the conversation with a fellow observer it's a different matter, with often honest answers.

    North Korea has a lot of pride in their country. Good for them? Probably. Good for everyone else? Probably not. I guess the point of too much pride is when it not only becomes isolative, but when it becomes aggressive. America is more of a threat than North Korea, but because you are American and probably have a different stream of facts coming at you, North Korea is probably a massive threat to the world.

    It was ISIS, but the Russians have fixed that threat. Time to find another threat. There always appears to be a threat in the world that America needs to be a part of the solution for. I personally just think it is all to do with weapon sales.

    That is called relativism... and it is inherently, and utterly, illogical.
    Relativism is so absurd, it is self refuting.

    When you retreat to a place where you begin to deny logic, you have retreated to lunacy, and admitted that you are not rational.... when you deny logic, you have lost the debate.




    I didn't intend to post in this thread again... but this was impossible to ignore.
    When you deny logic, you deny rationality, and admit you're irrational...
    in essence, you admit that you're just babbling nonsense.



    When people admit they are irrational... it's time to walk away, and leave the crazy people to play in the rubber room with their rubber toys.




  17. #57
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    And no I'm not here spewing hatred or being offensive, but if you are looking to be offended when I'm not directing anything at you personally, then that's a bit of an over reaction sorry.

    In regards to being God-neutered, I just think if you are growing up with pride, whether you go to church or not, it is like a virus in your system. Makes it harder to be humble, to ever admit you are wrong, or to be sorry.

    And if things came out a little forward or passionate, I apologise for that. I should better engage in good discussion than in being somewhat against the way some Americans present themselves.

    One lady said she admired the fact that I stand up to American bullies on this site. But I think saying anything against your country is maybe not so helpful, because it just seems to be a trigger for you people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Innerfire89 View Post
    That quite an assumption, you seriously think anyone here supports the killing of innocent people? Where do you get that idea?
    How are we neutered of God, I grew up going to church every Sunday, we had the ten commandments in the courthouses before some athirst got his panties in a was.

    God can allow healing though medication, God doesn't promise to cure everything it's is still his will if one gets better or not. Did Paul not tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomahe? Same principle.

    Does Isis wear uniforms? Do they have a base somewhere that everyone knows about. No.
    They hide hide their location and identity until they're ready to kill a bunch of people. What difference do weapons make?


    The only reason you came into this thread was to spew hate and be offensive, a very discuting way to behave on a site for Christian fellowship.
    Galatea likes this.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Whatever makes you feel right about yourself Maxwel. I'll just be some crazy person to you. That's pretty much as irrational as it gets! No matter what I say, you will look for cracks in it. It's always the same, look for the points that can be turned back on people. I'm not sure why you grabbed the 1st part of the sentence. Nothing is particularly (maybe it was the 'really' that confused you?) illogical, only little understood, or unelaborated. So yes I admit making points without elaborating on them, and maybe somewhat subjective.

    On that note, any good points you agree with? Can you be humble?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    That is called relativism... and it is inherently, and utterly, illogical.
    Relativism is so absurd, it is self refuting.

    When you retreat to a place where you begin to deny logic, you have retreated to lunacy, and admitted that you are not rational.... when you deny logic, you have lost the debate.




    I didn't intend to post in this thread again... but this was impossible to ignore.
    When you deny logic, you deny rationality, and admit you're irrational...
    in essence, you admit that you're just babbling nonsense.



    When people admit they are irrational... it's time to walk away, and leave the crazy people to play in the rubber room with their rubber toys.




  19. #59
    Senior Member Innerfire89's Avatar
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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    And no I'm not here spewing hatred or being offensive, but if you are looking to be offended when I'm not directing anything at you personally, then that's a bit of an over reaction sorry.

    In regards to being God-neutered, I just think if you are growing up with pride, whether you go to church or not, it is like a virus in your system. Makes it harder to be humble, to ever admit you are wrong, or to be sorry.

    And if things came out a little forward or passionate, I apologise for that. I should better engage in good discussion than in being somewhat against the way some Americans present themselves.

    One lady said she admired the fact that I stand up to American bullies on this site. But I think saying anything against your country is maybe not so helpful, because it just seems to be a trigger for you people.
    Pride is part of the sinful nature, makes no difference where someone is from. That's an offensive thing to say, it would be like me saying you love tea and worship the queen. Let's not judge by stereotypes.

    Is their pride in Americans? Yes, just like anywhere else.
    Matthew 22:37
    "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind" and " Love your neighbor as you love yourself."


    A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw God's truth attacked and yet keep silent. John Calvin

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    Default Re: why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

    I fear for some of you with this ideology.. time to decide where your heart be.. if you are Children of GOD then you can not get caught up in this world and its pride.

    Anyone reaching for the Old Testament to justify blood shed condemns themselves because the Messiah said we are not to love our lives here and those who live by the sword die by the sword.

    I have family who died for their flag and told it is for our freedom today.. and to say otherwise would be an insult.. because they believed that they fought for good... but friends you see not the darkness without the light of GOD.

    Where is it written that we should devote ourselves to the world and the pride that leads to not Loving even our enemies?

    Tell me will you pray for them that despise you or kill them?
    oldethennew likes this.

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