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Thread: When (timewise) are we judged?

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    Default When (timewise) are we judged?

    What do you think? In the here and now? Immediately upon death? After we are resurrected from the grave? Sometime in between? Never?

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    Senior Member Prov910's Avatar
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)

    This is after the thousand years, after the first resurrection of believers, after Satan, the beast and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, after the sea gave up the dead, and after Hades and Death are thrown into the Lake of Fire. (See Rev. 20)

    So it doesn't seem like judgment comes immediately upon our earthly death. It seems like a lot of things have to happen before the lost stand before the white throne and are judged.
    ================================================== ===========
    10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Prov. 9:10

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prov910 View Post
    "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)

    This is after the thousand years, after the first resurrection of believers, after Satan, the beast and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, after the sea gave up the dead, and after Hades and Death are thrown into the Lake of Fire. (See Rev. 20)

    So it doesn't seem like judgment comes immediately upon our earthly death. It seems like a lot of things have to happen before the lost stand before the white throne and are judged.
    Then what does this do to the opinion that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man was a true story that had already happened? Nothing in the parable indicates that either one of the dead men was either bad or good, yet one of them is already being punished in torment.
    Last edited by Willie-T; November 23rd, 2017 at 11:43 AM.
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    Senior Member Prov910's Avatar
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Then what does this do to the opinion that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man was a true story that had already happened? Nothing in the parable indicates that either one of the dead men was either bad or good, yet one of them is already being punished in torment.
    I think the operative term is "parable". Sometimes not all things in a parable translate to real life. Take the parable of the ten virgins for example. The five foolish virgins don't have oil for their lamp. The oil is thought to represent the presence of God, or perhaps the Holy Spirit. The foolish virgins went out to buy oil. But that doesn't make sense. You can't *buy* the presence of God or the Holy Spirit. Similarly, not all the components of the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man make sense in real world terms. /jmho
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    ================================================== ===========
    10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Prov. 9:10

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    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    When timewise are we judged?

    6:25

    I've just always felt it would be 6:25

    Probably on a Monday.

    Probably on a Monday right after you hit the snooze alarm for the 3rd time.

    Bam!

    Then you're standing in front of God, and he's just staring at you... with his arms folded... wondering how anyone can be so lazy.

    And right then you are just POSITIVE you are not getting employee of the year.
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    When does a father judge his erring child? (Note: Not "when does he correct his erring child." Big difference.)

    When do you judge whether a new recipe is a success or failure? When it is complete of course.

    When do you judge the winner of a race? At the end of it.
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    "Do you sing at church?"
    "Yes I sing at church. And I sing at work. And I sing at home... and in the car... at the supermarket... at Wal-Mart..."

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    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Ok, all joking aside, we should probably consider some distinctions.

    We should probably consider some distinctions between eternal judgement, temporal discipline, and the differences in judgement between the lost and the redeemed.



    We need to first make some distinctions and be sure we're all talking about the same things, and not blurring lines between entirely different things... if in fact these are different things.




    And to be perfectly frank,
    Willie might be at risk of eternal judgement himself...
    for making such a serious post on a day the rest of us just want to stuff our faces with turkey and pie until we pass out.

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    Senior Member tanakh's Avatar
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    When timewise are we judged?

    6:25

    I've just always felt it would be 6:25

    Probably on a Monday.

    Probably on a Monday right after you hit the snooze alarm for the 3rd time.

    Bam!

    Then you're standing in front of God, and he's just staring at you... with his arms folded... wondering how anyone can be so lazy.

    And right then you are just POSITIVE you are not getting employee of the year.
    I think your theory sounds right if your working. Monday is a lousy day but for retired people any day would do just as well.
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    What if time is not what we think it is? While slaves to time we think of beginnings and end. But maybe all time exists right now.
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    What do you think? In the here and now? Immediately upon death? After we are resurrected from the grave? Sometime in between? Never?
    My theory. God created time and space. He's in it and not in it. He's not governed by it. He governs it. So when this life is over, or even when earth is over, there is no time, aka "eternity." Without time, we won't be thinking, acting, or experiencing linear.

    Therefore Judgement Day hits at once, except there is no "once" and there is no "day."
    oldethennew, Laish and Prov910 like this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    When timewise are we judged?

    6:25

    I've just always felt it would be 6:25

    Probably on a Monday.

    Probably on a Monday right after you hit the snooze alarm for the 3rd time.

    Bam!

    Then you're standing in front of God, and he's just staring at you... with his arms folded... wondering how anyone can be so lazy.

    And right then you are just POSITIVE you are not getting employee of the year.
    6:25 AM or PM?
    oldethennew and Laish like this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by tanakh View Post
    I think your theory sounds right if your working. Monday is a lousy day but for retired people any day would do just as well.
    Why do you think I asked him if it was AM or PM? I'm wondering if I have to get up early again. lol
    Laish likes this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    My view......saved at the Bema seat of Christ when gathered at the 7th trump while God pours out his wrath on the lost world and then the lost at the Great White Throne a 1000 years later......

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    My theory. God created time and space. He's in it and not in it. He's not governed by it. He governs it. So when this life is over, or even when earth is over, there is no time, aka "eternity." Without time, we won't be thinking, acting, or experiencing linear.

    Therefore Judgement Day hits at once, except there is no "once" and there is no "day."

    Depleted,
    I really respect and appreciate your extremely high view of God, and of his sovereignty.
    Sincerely.

    However, the entire concept of time is just a horribly complex topic that has baffled philosophers since, well, forever.
    If you don't think it's complex, just answer the simple question, "What exactly is time?"
    If you think about it, you'll find it's extraordinarily difficult to answer.

    Most secular scientists would define it in one way, but I think many theologians and philosophers, especially christian philosophers, would define it in a different way. I think most on our side of this debate would define time as a state that arises from "temporal becoming". This means the very act of change, and movement, is what actually causes time.
    Even Plato, a very lost man, understood this several thousand years ago.

    Change and movement will, and must, inherently generate the temporal states of "before" and "after".
    If anything is happening, anything at all, then there is immediately, inherently, a "before" and "after".
    This difference in before and after is what creates the "arrow of time", and seems to be the very genesis of time itself.
    Therefore, time is generated by change and movement.
    When God, the prime mover, first created, and first began the movement of all things... time was necessarily generated as an inherent result.

    So what does this have to do with your statements about eternity?

    Well, you suggested that when our lives are over, we go into an eternal state, where there is no longer time.
    I don't think "eternity" requires the absence of time.
    Let me explain.

    From a closer look at time, I would suggest that when we enter into "eternal life", we also go into an endless temporal state, in which there IS time.... infinite time.
    If we are moving and doing things, or if God is moving and doing things, or if any of God's creation is moving and doing things... then temporal time is necessarily generated in this process. (Change and movement creates the tensed states of "before" and "after"... and thus temporal time.)

    I believe most theologians would hold that "eternity future" is something which does exist in temporal time...
    and the present will gradually unfold into the "potential infinite" as we move into eternity in a completely temporal way.




    Some of the terms I used above may sound odd, but I don't think I've expressed anything which is in any way unorthodox.
    Any discussions of time and eternity are, by definition, very strange and tenuous.


    God Bless
    Last edited by maxwel; November 23rd, 2017 at 03:32 PM.
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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    with God, there is no 'absence of time', for He is Eternal,
    and when we are 'changed', we will certainly abide in His
    timeless Eternity with Him forever, which is 'time-less'...

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Hummm, if "time" really doesn't exist, how do we calculate this "Eternity" that keeps getting brought up in the Bible?

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    What do you think? In the here and now? Immediately upon death? After we are resurrected from the grave? Sometime in between? Never?
    Depends very much on whether you are a true blue Pentecostal Christian
    or a non-Pentecostal Christian.
    The first resurrection and the marriage feast versus waiting with everybody else
    to the judgment day before the great white throne, and the books of life.

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Depleted,
    I really respect and appreciate your extremely high view of God, and of his sovereignty.
    Sincerely.

    However, the entire concept of time is just a horribly complex topic that has baffled philosophers since, well, forever.
    If you don't think it's complex, just answer the simple question, "What exactly is time?"
    If you think about it, you'll find it's extraordinarily difficult to answer.

    Most secular scientists would define it in one way, but I think many theologians and philosophers, especially christian philosophers, would define it in a different way. I think most on our side of this debate would define time as a state that arises from "temporal becoming". This means the very act of change, and movement, is what actually causes time.
    Even Plato, a very lost man, understood this several thousand years ago.

    Change and movement will, and must, inherently generate the temporal states of "before" and "after".
    If anything is happening, anything at all, then there is immediately, inherently, a "before" and "after".
    This difference in before and after is what creates the "arrow of time", and seems to be the very genesis of time itself.
    Therefore, time is generated by change and movement.
    When God, the prime mover, first created, and first began the movement of all things... time was necessarily generated as an inherent result.

    So what does this have to do with your statements about eternity?

    Well, you suggested that when our lives are over, we go into an eternal state, where there is no longer time.
    I don't think "eternity" requires the absence of time.
    Let me explain.

    From a closer look at time, I would suggest that when we enter into "eternal life", we also go into an endless temporal state, in which there IS time.... infinite time.
    If we are moving and doing things, or if God is moving and doing things, or if any of God's creation is moving and doing things... then temporal time is necessarily generated in this process. (Change and movement creates the tensed states of "before" and "after"... and thus temporal time.)

    I believe most theologians would hold that "eternity future" is something which does exist in temporal time...
    and the present will gradually unfold into the "potential infinite" as we move into eternity in a completely temporal way.




    Some of the terms I used above may sound odd, but I don't think I've expressed anything which is in any way unorthodox.
    Any discussions of time and eternity are, by definition, very strange and tenuous.


    God Bless
    Where is air in time? Is there a temporalness to it? Because if we breath in air, we breath it out again. Might use a few molecules of what was in the air, but it's still air going in and out. And what we take out of it, (oxygen), is reinserted into it by plants, and what they take out of it, (carbon dioxide), we put back in, thus it is in a constant state of being. I think outside of time is something like that.

    And, I think most people think there is temporalness even in heaven, because who can fully, or even partially, grasp nontemporal as temporal beings? I don't get what it looks like or will be at all, except since God always was, without ever having a beginning, then why would we not be in a similar state of being as he is? So, yeah, I do get it is an odd theory. Anything we propose is just a theory, but otherwise, how many Judgement Days will they be? As it stands now, there would have to be at least 10 billion of them to accommodate every single human being when we die.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Hummm, if "time" really doesn't exist, how do we calculate this "Eternity" that keeps getting brought up in the Bible?
    I'd worry about that question only if someone ever said time doesn't exist.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: When (timewise) are we judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    My theory. God created time and space. He's in it and not in it. He's not governed by it. He governs it. So when this life is over, or even when earth is over, there is no time, aka "eternity." Without time, we won't be thinking, acting, or experiencing linear.Therefore Judgement Day hits at once, except there is no "once" and there is no "day."
    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    I'd worry about that question only if someone ever said time doesn't exist.
    Most of the things you say usually seem confused and kind of a vague "two-speak." But doesn't this post of yours, above, say "there is no time" and "Without time..."?

    I find it hard to see that saying anything other than, "There is no time." And that sounds very much like "Time doesn't exist with God."

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