The Pope

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breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#1
I was thinking about the Pope this morning. Then I noticed my attitude towards him. A very dismissive, arrogant and unrespectable attitude.

How easy is it to have this towards a person I have never met, never will meet who lives 1000's kms away.

If I ever were put in a situation where I was sitting face to face with him, would my attitude be present in my speech and actions? Surely not, I would put on a mask and be the most dishonest person in the room (my heart attitude wouldn't match what's happening on the outside)

In fact, due to his age and position, I would be a fool to think that the man has no knowledge or wisdom that I could draw from.

No I'm not a catholic, not do I esteem him like catholics do but he Is another man who has experienced life, seen 100 times more than I have, spoken to far more and influenced more people than I ever have.

Here's 30 something year old me thinking I'm better than him because he carries the title The Pope.

What I fool I am.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#2
I was thinking about the Pope this morning. Then I noticed my attitude towards him. A very dismissive, arrogant and unrespectable attitude.

How easy is it to have this towards a person I have never met, never will meet who lives 1000's kms away.

If I ever were put in a situation where I was sitting face to face with him, would my attitude be present in my speech and actions? Surely not, I would put on a mask and be the most dishonest person in the room (my heart attitude wouldn't match what's happening on the outside)

In fact, due to his age and position, I would be a fool to think that the man has no knowledge or wisdom that I could draw from.

No I'm not a catholic, not do I esteem him like catholics do but he Is another man who has experienced life, seen 100 times more than I have, spoken to far more and influenced more people than I ever have.

Here's 30 something year old me thinking I'm better than him because he carries the title The Pope.

What I fool I am.
No, you're just kind of normal.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#4
Here's 30 something year old me thinking I'm better than him because he carries the title The Pope.

What I fool I am.
Same could be said for Hitler. But those seen like human accomplishments, not godly ones. Is that really a solid basis? Especially about someone that misleads so many?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,339
2,427
113
#5
Hmmm... Breno....

I think that sometimes people want to examine their own heart,
and when they find it lacking (which every heart will do),
they sometimes, as a kind of backlash, give far too much credit to anyone they've had unkind thoughts toward...
people who's hearts are also lacking.

And in the midst of all this well intended self reflection...
we conflate many and varied disparate things which really have nothing to do with each other.

What kinds of disparate things might we conflate?


- The pope being older doesn't necessarily make him wiser... scripture talks about this.
- The pope being powerful and influential doesn't necessarily make him any more important to God than anyone else.
- The pope being powerful and influential doesn't necessarily make him any better than you or anyone else.
- The fact you might be able to "learn things" from another person does not necessarily make them a better Christian, and does not exempt them from all possible criticism.
- The fact someone is far away and you don't know them personally has nothing to do with your ability to fairly analyze their PUBLIC positions and their PUBLIC words.
- The fact that you should be civil and polite toward others has NOTHING to do with you ability or right to critique their political positions or doctrinal beliefs.


We simply conflate too many disparate things.

Yes, if you meet the Pope you should be polite.

But he's a public figure with public doctrinal positions, public political positions, public writings, and public speeches...
it's perfectly just to critique those, and have an opinion.




 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#6
Hmmm... Breno....

I think that sometimes people want to examine their own heart,
and when they find it lacking (which every heart will do),
they sometimes, as a kind of backlash, give far too much credit to anyone they've had unkind thoughts toward...
people who's hearts are also lacking.

And in the midst of all this well intended self reflection...
we conflate many and varied disparate things which really have nothing to do with each other.

What kinds of disparate things might we conflate?


- The pope being older doesn't necessarily make him wiser... scripture talks about this.
- The pope being powerful and influential doesn't necessarily make him any more important to God than anyone else.
- The pope being powerful and influential doesn't necessarily make him any better than you or anyone else.
- The fact you might be able to "learn things" from another person does not necessarily make them a better Christian, and does not exempt them from all possible criticism.
- The fact someone is far away and you don't know them personally has nothing to do with your ability to fairly analyze their PUBLIC positions and their PUBLIC words.
- The fact that you should be civil and polite toward others has NOTHING to do with you ability or right to critique their political positions or doctrinal beliefs.


We simply conflate too many disparate things.

Yes, if you meet the Pope you should be polite.

But he's a public figure with public doctrinal positions, public political positions, public writings, and public speeches...
it's perfectly just to critique those, and have an opinion.




I see what you are saying, and agree with all points.

Thing is, I know very little about this man, by little I mean, I tiny amount. Now, I really don't like Catholicism, and I know he's the head of it but I don't believe that my attitude is correct. And I don't believe that if I were to be face to face with him that I would act anywhere near what's inside. That is fundamentally dishonest. And yes, I have found amongst my own circles of Christianity there is a lot of subconscious dishonesty going around.. But that's another topic.

I do not believe I should be so arrogant, toward anyone for that matter, not just the pope. And I think it would be foolish to think that there is NOTHING that I could learn about life from him.

I don't have to agree with him on everything but my attitude towards him was disrespectful. Whether people agree or not, it doesn't matter.

Ugly, why did you use such an extreme example of Hitler?
I liken it to when people (I used to say) if there is no God or consequences then why not rape and murder? Such an extreme example to try and prove a point.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,913
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#7
Godwin's law, breno. Godwin's law.
 
Sep 6, 2017
1,331
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#8
That old saying hate the game not the player, the pope is the quarterback of the Catholic Rumrunners.

and farther more I'm not going to kiss the popes ring now or ever if I ever do meet the pope one day.

[video=youtube;KwapBahAGxg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwapBahAGxg[/video]
 
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breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#9
Haha godwins law.. I had to google it, that's gold.

And yeah, I wouldn't be kissing his ring... Lol in Australia a ring also means something else! :D