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Thread: the Dunning-Kruger effect

  1. #1
    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Post the Dunning-Kruger effect


    In psychology, there’s an idea known as
    the Dunning-Kruger effect. It refers to research by David Dunning and Justin Kruger that found the least competent people often believe they are the most competent because they “lack the very expertise needed to recognize how badly they’re doing.”




    i was reading an article about the behavior of a very well known American, and came across this.

    discuss?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    These doesn't seem in any way surprising or controversial.

    This just seems like common sense.




    FYI ... I know this because I'm a highly competent expert.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    In psychology, there’s an idea known as the Dunning-Kruger effect. It refers to research by David Dunning and Justin Kruger that found the least competent people often believe they are the most competent because they “lack the very expertise needed to recognize how badly they’re doing.”

    i was reading an article about the behavior of a very well known American, and came across this.

    discuss?
    I lack the competence to discuss this
    posthuman, Lynx, Willie-T and 2 others like this.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

  4. #4
    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    I lack the competence to discuss this
    How do we know you are competent to discuss your own competence?
    Magenta, notmyown, Laish and 1 others like this.

  5. #5
    Zi
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    You'd start by comparison. Her methods and the methods of those from the case studies
    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    How do we know you are competent to discuss your own competence?
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  6. #6
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    But seriously, although this really is kind of a funny topic,
    I don't think it requires any scientific study.

    I think you could arrive at this same conclusion from some scripture,
    or from some simple philosophical proofs.
    I can't see this would require any serious study to prove it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    It closely ties to The Peter Principle, coined by Laurence J. Peter. It states that most upper echelon incompetence comes from people being promoted until they reach the eventual upper level, or limit, of their competency.

  8. #8
    Zi
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    You have no room for wonder, imagination and the like do you?

    I don't mean that in an offensive way.

    You seem very fact oriented. Facts as in what's been proven in your opinion.

    I don't see wiggle room for open discussion or debating. Even if you post in them, I don't see an open end.

    I'm aware I could be wrong. I've not read everything you post. I'm really just asking
    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    But seriously, although this really is kind of a funny topic,
    I don't think it requires any scientific study.

    I think you could arrive at this same conclusion from some scripture,
    or from some simple philosophical proofs.
    I can't see this would require any serious study to prove it.
    posthuman, Willie-T and Angela_s like this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Zi View Post
    You have no room for wonder, imagination and the like do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zi View Post
    I don't mean that in an offensive way.
    You seem very fact oriented. Facts as in what's been proven in your opinion.
    I don't see wiggle room for open discussion or debating.
    Even if you post in them, I don't see an open end.
    I'm aware I could be wrong. I've not read everything you post. I'm really just asking
    I think Max shows a great deal of imagination, along with fairly keen powers of observation, and a very good grasp of the English language, which he uses to present his well articulated astute considerations. The factualness of it all is almost necessary in a milieu such as this, leaving no stone unturned, as it were, to assure that each relection is clearly represented, while at the same time determining that his propitious presentations do not turn into ad hominin free-for-alls, as many others allow themselves to do rather alarmingly too regularly


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    These doesn't seem in any way surprising or controversial.

    This just seems like common sense.




    FYI ... I know this because I'm a highly competent expert.

    I have studied a lot of math in my life ... so I know that ex (or simply X) is usually an algebraic unknown. And a spurt is a drip under pressure. Therefore, by logical conclusion, an expert is an unknown drip under pressure!
    maxwel, posthuman and Angela_s like this.

  11. #11
    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Inquistor View Post
    I have studied a lot of math in my life ... so I know that ex (or simply X) is usually an algebraic unknown. And a spurt is a drip under pressure. Therefore, by logical conclusion, an expert is an unknown drip under pressure!
    wouldn't a pert ex be a sass from the past?


    does a transitive property hold here?
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  12. #12
    Zi
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    I enjoy reading his posts. I've spoken to him before so I'd hope he wouldn't take it negatively
    I'm not knocking him.
    Can't understand personality if questions aren't asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma]
    I think Max shows a great deal of imagination, along with fairly keen powers of observation, and a very good grasp of the English language, which he uses to present his well articulated astute considerations. The factualness of it all is almost necessary in a milieu such as this, leaving no stone unturned, as it were, to assure that each relection is clearly represented, while at the same time determining that his propitious presentations do not turn into ad hominin free-for-alls, as many others allow themselves to do rather alarmingly too regularly
    posthuman likes this.

  13. #13
    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Zi View Post
    You have no room for wonder, imagination and the like do you?

    I don't mean that in an offensive way.

    You seem very fact oriented. Facts as in what's been proven in your opinion.

    I don't see wiggle room for open discussion or debating. Even if you post in them, I don't see an open end.

    I'm aware I could be wrong. I've not read everything you post. I'm really just asking
    When one only has one eye, one's depth perception is necessarily impaired.
    maxwel, Magenta and Laish like this.

  14. #14
    Senior Member hornetguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    When one only has one eye, one's depth perception is necessarily impaired.
    which is just fine for a lot of us "shallow people"..... no depth perception is required!
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  15. #15
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Zi View Post
    You have no room for wonder, imagination and the like do you?

    I don't mean that in an offensive way.

    You seem very fact oriented. Facts as in what's been proven in your opinion.

    I don't see wiggle room for open discussion or debating. Even if you post in them, I don't see an open end.

    I'm aware I could be wrong. I've not read everything you post. I'm really just asking

    Hey Zi,
    Hope you had a great Christmas and you're doing well.

    Your questions seemed to be reasonable and polite,
    so I'll try to discuss them as politely as you brought them up.

    "You have no room for wonder, imagination, and the like do you?"
    : )

    Well, at least you get to the point, lol.
    Let me give you my point of view, so that maybe you'll understand why I seem so unimaginative... maybe you can cure me.

    I think imagination is a wonderful thing.
    And I think there are many many things in life to wonder about.
    Truly.
    But sometimes we "wonder" about things that are not infinite in scope and unanswerable;
    often we wonder about things which really do have answers.
    When things DO have answers, I'd much rather HAVE AN ANSWER than just keep on wondering.

    Some things DO have answers, and if something DOES have an answer, I'd prefer to have that answer than continue wondering.

    It often goes like this:
    A. I usually look at a thing and thinK, "Hmmm, is this the sort of thing that might HAVE an answer?"
    B. Then I think, "If its a thing that might have an answer, is it the sort of answer we mortals could discover?"
    C. Then I think, "If it's the sort of thing we CAN discover the answer to, WHERE would that answer be, and HOW would be go about finding it?"

    So maybe it's not that I have no "wonder"... but maybe we're wondering about different things.
    Perhaps some people wonder about wonder, and I'm wondering about an answer.
    Or perhaps some people are wondering about a "possible" answer, and I'm wondering about a "necessary" answer, an answer that stands in a relationship of genuine logical necessity, and therefore can be self-validating.


    Now, does that mean all my answers are right?
    Of course not.
    I'm one of the wrongest people I know... see there, I can't even use good grammar.


    So, to sum up my view to this question about imagination and wonder, let me put it another way.
    There are a great many things to wonder about it life, but there are many things we don't have to wonder about... many things have genuine answers, and I think it's better to have answers to answerable things.



    Now, if you want to know WHY I gave the answers I gave previously in this thread, that would be an entirely different question.
    Last edited by maxwel; December 29th, 2017 at 11:52 PM.

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    Senior Member Depleted's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post

    In psychology, there’s an idea known as
    the Dunning-Kruger effect. It refers to research by David Dunning and Justin Kruger that found the least competent people often believe they are the most competent because they “lack the very expertise needed to recognize how badly they’re doing.”




    i was reading an article about the behavior of a very well known American, and came across this.

    discuss?
    I'm the third child, and first daughter, and then three others came along later. My mother was the type of woman so competitive, she'd make alpha athletes feel mellow. And Dad has OCD, so there was no concept of every hitting his bar for perfection. (And his bar is perfection. Third child is daughter means two older brothers with one to two more years experience on how to be better at whatever plus, shore enough both were alpha males in their selected field.

    And if family didn't do it, work did it.My jobs went from social work/counseling to telemarketing, to sales, on to managing the work the guys had to get done for 900+ apartments, and then onto copy writing in an ad agency, and finally a bookkeeper for a factor. What did all that equal, a clear understand that I could not do the works, but I sure could learn how. I can learn how do to any job that required skills to do it. Just tenacity.

    I'm no expert but I can do the work

    I know what I cant deal with.
    Last edited by Depleted; December 29th, 2017 at 11:56 PM.
    posthuman, notmyown and Laish like this.
    Lynn

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    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member Depleted's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    When one only has one eye, one's depth perception is necessarily impaired.
    There are work around for that.
    posthuman likes this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  18. #18
    Zi
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Thank you! This is exactly what I meant
    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Hey Zi,
    Hope you had a great Christmas and you're doing well.

    Your questions seemed to be reasonable and polite,
    so I'll try to discuss them as politely as you brought them up.

    "You have no room for wonder, imagination, and the like do you?"
    : )

    Well, at least you get to the point, lol.
    Let me give you my point of view, so that maybe you'll understand why I seem so unimaginative... maybe you can cure me.

    I think imagination is a wonderful thing.
    And I think there are many many things in life to wonder about.
    Truly.
    But sometimes we "wonder" about things that are not infinite in scope and unanswerable;
    often we wonder about things which really do have answers.
    When things DO have answers, I'd much rather HAVE AN ANSWER than just keep on wondering.

    Some things DO have answers, and if something DOES have an answer, I'd prefer to have that answer than continue wondering.

    It often goes like this:
    A. I usually look at a thing and thinK, "Hmmm, is this the sort of thing that might HAVE an answer?"
    B. Then I think, "If its a thing that might have an answer, is it the sort of answer we mortals could discover?"
    C. Then I think, "If it's the sort of thing we CAN discover the answer to, WHERE would that answer be, and HOW would be go about finding it?"

    So maybe it's not that I have no "wonder"... but maybe we're wondering about different things.
    Perhaps some people wonder about wonder, and I'm wondering about an answer.
    Or perhaps some people are wondering about a "possible" answer, and I'm wondering about a "necessary" answer, an answer that stands in a relationship of genuine logical necessity, and therefore can be self-validating.


    Now, does that mean all my answers are right?
    Of course not.
    I'm one of the wrongest people I know... see there, I can't even use good grammar.


    So, to sum up my view to this question about imagination and wonder, let me put it another way.
    There are a great many things to wonder about it life, but there are many things we don't have to wonder about... many things have genuine answers, and I think it's better to have answers to answerable things.



    Now, if you want to know WHY I gave the answers I gave previously in this thread, that would be an entirely different question.
    posthuman likes this.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Lynx's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    I don't know about most of the stuff y'all posted in this thread. I can answer the OP though. I have observed the less a person knows, the more he thinks he knows. Only the completely ignorant think they know everything. The more a person learns the more he realizes how little he knows and how impossible it is to learn even an appreciable fraction of what there is to know.

    Maybe that explains Proverbs 1:18, about if you increase knowledge you increase sorrow.
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    "Do you sing at church?"
    "Yes I sing at church. And I sing at work. And I sing at home... and in the car... at the supermarket... at Wal-Mart..."

  20. #20
    Senior Member Seedz's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Dunning-Kruger effect

    Ignorant in what sense? Intelligence is a multifaceted virtue. I don't think this applies over everything because one person can be ignorant in regards to a particular subject or idea, and excel at something else. I think this has to do more with attitude rather than actual intelligence. Just my $0.02
    posthuman likes this.

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