Is it OK to lie?

JesusLives · Jan 17, 2018

Read it. He was standing right in the middle of the Temple, preaching... and this was only halfway through the festival.

Unless you try to twist words because of your fear of being seen as saying Jesus actually said and did what he said and did, the obvious conclusion is that doing what Jesus did (exactly what we call "lying") was not considered to be either wrong nor a lie in God's eyes.

I'm saying he didn't lie sounds like you are saying he did.

joefizz · Jan 17, 2018

Willie-T said:

This is especially for anyone who has been programed to only read small portions of Bible stories:

Jesus Goes to the Festival of Booths John 7:7ff

7 Jesus later traveled throughout Galilee. He didn’t want to travel in Judea because Jews there wanted to kill him.

2 The time for the Jewish Festival of Booths was near. 3 So Jesus’ brothers told him, “Leave this place, and go to Judea so that your disciples can see the things that you’re doing. 4 No one does things secretly when he wants to be known publicly. If you do these things, you should let the world see you.” 5 Even his brothers didn’t believe in him.

6 Jesus told them, “Now is not the right time for me to go. Any time is right for you. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I say that what everyone does is evil. 8 Go to the festival. I’m not going to this festival right now. Now is not the right time for me to go.”

9 After saying this, Jesus stayed in Galilee. 10 But after his brothers had gone to the festival, Jesus went. He didn’t go publicly but secretly.

11 The Jews were looking for Jesus in the crowd at the festival. They kept asking, “Where is that man?” 12 The crowds argued about Jesus. Some people said, “He’s a good man,” while others said, “No he isn’t. He deceives the people.” 13 Yet, no one would talk openly about him because they were afraid of the Jews.

14 When the festival was half over, Jesus went to the temple courtyard and began to teach. 15 The Jews were surprised and asked, “How can this man be so educated when he hasn’t gone to school?”

16 Jesus responded to them, “What I teach doesn’t come from me but from the one who sent me. 17 Those who want to follow the will of God will know if what I teach is from God or if I teach my own thoughts. 18 Those who speak their own thoughts are looking for their own glory. But the man who wants to bring glory to the one who sent him is a true teacher and doesn’t have dishonest motives. 19 Didn’t Moses give you his teachings? Yet, none of you does what Moses taught you. So why do you want to kill me?”

20 The crowd answered, “You’re possessed by a demon! Who wants to kill you?”

21 Jesus answered them, “I performed one miracle, and all of you are surprised by it. 22 Moses gave you the teaching about circumcision (although it didn’t come from Moses but from our ancestors). So you circumcise a male on a day of rest—a holy day. 23 If you circumcise a male on the day of rest—a holy day, to follow Moses’ Teachings, why are you angry with me because I made a man entirely well on the day of rest—a holy day? 24 Stop judging by outward appearance! Instead, judge correctly.”

25 Some of the people who lived in Jerusalem said, “Isn’t this the man they want to kill? 26 But look at this! He’s speaking in public, and no one is saying anything to him! Can it be that the rulers really know that this man is the Messiah? 27 However, we know where this man comes from. When the Christ comes, no one will know where he is from.”

28 Then, while Jesus was teaching in the temple courtyard, he said loudly, “You know me, and you know where I come from. I didn’t decide to come on my own. The one who sent me is true. He’s the one you don’t know. 29 I know him because I am from him and he sent me.”

30 The Jews tried to arrest him but couldn’t because his time had not yet come.

31 However, many people in the crowd believed in him. They asked, “When the Messiah comes, will he perform more miracles than this man has?”

32 The Pharisees heard the crowd saying things like this about him. So the chief priests and the Pharisees sent temple guards to arrest Jesus.

33 Jesus said, “I will still be with you for a little while. Then I’ll go to the one who sent me. 34 You will look for me, but you won’t find me. You can’t go where I’m going.”

35 The Jews said among themselves, “Where does this man intend to go so that we won’t find him? Does he mean that he’ll live with the Jews who are scattered among the Greeks and that he’ll teach the Greeks? 36 What does he mean when he says, ‘You will look for me, but you won’t find me,’ and ‘You can’t go where I’m going’?”

37 On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus was standing in the temple courtyard. He said loudly, “Whoever is thirsty must come to me to drink. 38 As Scripture says, ‘Streams of living water will flow from deep within the person who believes in me.’” 39 Jesus said this about the Spirit, whom his believers would receive. The Spirit was not yet evident, as it would be after Jesus had been glorified.

40 After some of the crowd heard Jesus say these words, they said, “This man is certainly the prophet.” 41 Other people said, “This man is the Messiah.” Still other people asked, “How can the Messiah come from Galilee? 42 Doesn’t Scripture say that the Messiah will come from the descendants of David and from the village of Bethlehem, where David lived?” 43 So the people were divided because of Jesus. 44 Some of them wanted to arrest him, but they couldn’t.

45 When the temple guards returned, the chief priests and Pharisees asked them, “Why didn’t you bring Jesus?”

46 The temple guards answered, “No human has ever spoken like this man.”

47 The Pharisees asked the temple guards, “Have you been deceived too? 48 Has any ruler or any Pharisee believed in him? 49 This crowd is cursed because it doesn’t know Moses’ Teachings.”

50 One of those Pharisees was Nicodemus, who had previously visited Jesus. Nicodemus asked them, 51 “Do Moses’ Teachings enable us to judge a person without first hearing that person’s side of the story? We can’t judge a person without finding out what that person has done.”

52 They asked Nicodemus, “Are you saying this because you’re from Galilee? Study the Scriptures, and you’ll see that no prophet comes from Galilee.”[a]

53 Then each of them went home.

no lie of Jesus's in this he simply went at the "proper time" as he previously stated.

oldethennew · Jan 17, 2018

Will,

you are not 'receiving' the Truth of the situation, you are putting your own slant or
emotional spin on this TEXT, unless you are speaking your own opinion from a
different Bible than the KJV, and many others...there's some kind of 'blockage'
going on here...we're praying about this for you...

when Jesus said that He wasn't going up as YET, He meant it, He was not being
deceptive, it's pretty simple...God cannot lie, but we can, if we don't watch ourselves
and hold ourselves accountable...

joefizz · Jan 17, 2018

Willie-T said:

She was "spared" just as she "protected the spies" she wasn't praised for her lie she was praised for her courage and help to God's people and remember she "didn't lie to God",God's commandments aren't "trivial" like when a man hid gold when he was not to take of spoil he was stoned,he and his household for "lieing to God" and Ananias and his wife held back money in the new testament from God thereby "lieing to God" and both died straightways after being told so by Peter.

GandalfTheWhite · Jan 19, 2018

This is where the rubber meets the road friends.

Do we believe in a perfect Jesus/God or was it okay for our Saviour to be deceitful and still be perfect for the cross.

Was 99,9% good enough for the cross?

This is like the example of the ice cream factory taking one drop of wet dog poop and mix it with their ice cream. Will you still eat it or will you say no thank you even if you can't see or smell it in a 13 gallon drum of soft serve?

JoshMal · Jan 19, 2018

Capital NO. It is written plain as day 'THOU SHALL NOT LIE'.
We are all guilty of it and sometimes call it "applying wisdom".
God does not support it the least bit. It's because of His mercy that we are all still alive and well even after sinning.

Willie-T · Jan 19, 2018

JesusLives said:

I am saying if I did exactly what He did, you would plainly say I had lied. Can you claim you would not say I had lied? Of course not, you have already stated your criteria here... and that you would never do it.

Willie-T · Jan 19, 2018

JoshMal said:

Please show me where that is "written plain as day" in the Bible. I cannot find it.

Willie-T · Jan 19, 2018

joefizz said:

She was "spared" just as she "protected the spies" she wasn't praised for her lie she was praised for her courage and help to God's people and remember she "didn't lie to God",God's commandments aren't "trivial" like when a man hid gold when he was not to take of spoil he was stoned,he and his household for "lieing to God" and Ananias and his wife held back money in the new testament from God thereby "lieing to God" and both died straightways after being told so by Peter.

Now you are playing games. Not one word was ever said about "lying to God."

blue_ladybug · Jan 19, 2018

It's one of the ten commandments. Thou shall not bear false witness.

False witness- lying..

Willie-T said:

Prov910 · Jan 19, 2018

All this talk of Rahab. If she had been forthright about the two hidden spies they would have been put to death by the King of Jericho. So Rahab had a choice: Lie and spare the two men, or tell the truth and have them put to death. Given those two choices, I think she chose wisely.

============================

Next let's talk about Elisha and the bears. Is it okay to kill? What if the people you kill make fun of your bald head?

Willie-T · Jan 19, 2018

blue_ladybug said:

This is where we get in trouble. We don't even quote the Commandments as they are actually written, thus inventing "laws" that were never given.

blue_ladybug · Jan 19, 2018

It's one of the 10 commandments. So it IS a law..

Willie-T said:

Willie-T · Jan 19, 2018

blue_ladybug said:

But you didn't quote one of the 10 Commandments. (It's #9, BTW)

blue_ladybug · Jan 19, 2018

Thou shalt not bear false witness (LIE) against your neighbor.. Don't matter which way you word it, it's still LYING...

Willie-T said:

joefizz · Jan 19, 2018

blue_ladybug said:

Yes no matter what words are used...deception,bearing false witness,stretching the truth,exaggagerating,dishonest,it's all "Lieing".

Willie-T · Jan 19, 2018

Yep, "I'm not going to that festival."

Lynx · Jan 19, 2018

I would be lying if I said I expected this thread to produce anything except arguments. I would also be lying if I said my expectations were wrong...

Mind you I'm not saying either side in this argument is right or wrong, so put the six shooter away Willie. I'm just saying I never expected anybody to change his mind on either side of this argument as a result of this thread. And so far nobody has.

Some topics it's just not worth the internet ink it takes to argue about. Nothing will ever be accomplished.

On a side note, it would be interesting to see an exact definition of "bear false witness."

JesusLives · Jan 19, 2018

Willie-T said:

So my understanding is that twisting everything around that my criteria is that I would never lie which I never stated in my former posts several of which said I had lied at times.... You in a round about way believe Jesus lied since if you had done it I would say you lied?

So to clear things up you really believe Jesus lied.

joefizz · Jan 19, 2018

Willie-T said:

We'll start without you.

Is it OK to lie?

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Folksy yet erudite

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