Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 36
Like Tree55Likes

Miscellaneous

Random topics from random people!

Thread: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Socreta93's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 28th, 2015
    Age
    24
    Posts
    1,819
    Blog Entries
    16
    Rep Power
    67

    Default The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    There is a runaway trolley barrelling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person tied up on the side track. You have two options:

    1. Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track.
    2. Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person


    Here is something to note, you can kill that one person to save 1 but your're deliberately pulling the lever. You can do nothing and maybe your conscious would be clean since there was nothing you can do.
    “Every man has his secret sorrows which the world knows not; and often times we call a man cold when he is only sad.”
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow



    "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around." - Leo Buscaglia

  2. #2
    Senior Member tourist's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 13th, 2014
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,018
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    531

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    The trolley is probably an Amtrak. They seem to have a problem with levers on tracks.
    M & M's melt in your mouth and not in your hands.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tommy379's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 12th, 2016
    Age
    39
    Posts
    6,015
    Rep Power
    177

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    I'll just send them my prayers
    MissCris and tourist like this.
    Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

  4. #4
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    43
    Posts
    7,221
    Rep Power
    243

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    People still take trolleys?

    Maybe somebody needs to take an introductory ethics class from a school with newer books.
    posthuman, tourist and MichaelOwen like this.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Waggles's Avatar
    Join Date
    September 21st, 2017
    Age
    63
    Posts
    1,749
    Rep Power
    100

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    This is like those theological conundrums we used to
    dream up in religious instruction class.
    Great fun.

    "Father, what would happen if ... "

    Theory is one thing being there when it actually
    happens is another thing.
    To be honest I don't know!

    It's like first aid training: you practice on dummies
    [no real dummies] and yet when there is real blood
    and gore - well that is all together different.
    tourist, Tinuviel, Dino246 and 1 others like this.
    for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
    1Corinthians 9:16

  6. #6
    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 31st, 2013
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,747
    Rep Power
    432

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    The lever is railway property and you can face legal penalties for tampering with it.
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

  7. #7
    Senior Member zeroturbulence's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 2nd, 2009
    Age
    52
    Posts
    20,023
    Blog Entries
    21
    Rep Power
    275

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    You can't tie people to trolley tracks... because they are below ground....

    ...plus, the person driving the trolley controls the switches for the tracks.

    My dad was the greatest dad I could have ever asked for. Thank you, Dad..

    "If you talk about scripture more than you talk about God, then you've missed the point".
    - A Retired Minister
    Quote Originally Posted by loverofjesus27 View Post
    Who owns this site? Why is it bad to have fun?? And where is Harpy Eagle ??

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    Milk talk who in the land of taco are you posting to?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 13th, 2014
    Age
    40
    Posts
    12,477
    Rep Power
    206

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    I want to know who is tying these people up and leaving them on tracks.

    By the way, now that Spectre and Meltdown have made people aware that for years processors have been using speculative computation... Your computer has already sent trolleys down both tracks in a quantum way, and when you make a choice the trolley you did not choose will be deleted. All you have to do is NOT choose anything... and ALL SIX PEOPLE WILL DIE! Bwahahahaha!

    posthuman likes this.
    "Do you sing at church?"
    "Yes I sing at church. And I sing at work. And I sing at home... and in the car... at the supermarket... at Wal-Mart..."

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 13th, 2014
    Age
    40
    Posts
    12,477
    Rep Power
    206

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    This reminds me of an old joke about a good-ole-boy kind of guy who was working at a railroad switching point, back in the days when they needed a guy to manually throw the switch. The inspector came around to make sure all the employees knew their jobs and were doing them. The inspector was a bit of a smart-alec, and he thought he'd see just how far he could test this rube.

    "If you knew two trains were coming toward each other on a dead-on collision course, what would you do?"
    "Well I'd throw this switch here and send one of them trains on the other track."
    "What if that switch didn't work?"
    "Well I'd throw this other switch here and send the other one down the other track."
    "What if that didn't work either?"
    "Well I'd turn this switch and turn on the red stop light to tell both trains to stop until we got this mess sorted out."
    "What if that didn't work?"
    "Man, what is this? I wanna know who's breaking all this equipment, that's what I'd be finding out."
    "Just answer the question, what if the signal light didn't work?"
    "Well I'd get on this here radio and call up the trains and tell them they better stop."
    "And what if the radio didn't work?"
    "Then I'd get on the phone and call up my uncle Jim."
    "Jim? What does your uncle Jim know about trains?"
    "Oh he don't know nothing about no trains. But uncle Jim, he ain't never seen a train wreck before."
    "Do you sing at church?"
    "Yes I sing at church. And I sing at work. And I sing at home... and in the car... at the supermarket... at Wal-Mart..."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Socreta93's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 28th, 2015
    Age
    24
    Posts
    1,819
    Blog Entries
    16
    Rep Power
    67

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    Thank you for all these serious answers
    posthuman likes this.
    “Every man has his secret sorrows which the world knows not; and often times we call a man cold when he is only sad.”
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow



    "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around." - Leo Buscaglia

  11. #11
    Senior Member Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 13th, 2014
    Age
    40
    Posts
    12,477
    Rep Power
    206

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    Socreta I know you are trying to start conversations, and I give you props for that. Not many people want to start a thread these days, with so many critics waiting to pounce on and denigrate an idea.

    But I never could take the trolley problem seriously. It's just too contrived. It's supposed to be a foil for those who believe all ethical problems are black-and-white, but my first question is "Who is tying all these people up and leaving them on the tracks?" My second question is "Why can the trolley not just stop?" My third question would be "What am I doing standing beside a switch when the trolley driver can't flip it for himself?" I have a lot of other questions about the trolley problem, but it goes downhill from here.

    Sorry, I just can't take it seriously. The best I can do is supply some levity and move on. Hopefully somebody else can be serious about it.
    Deade likes this.
    "Do you sing at church?"
    "Yes I sing at church. And I sing at work. And I sing at home... and in the car... at the supermarket... at Wal-Mart..."

  12. #12
    Senior Member WineRose's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 3rd, 2017
    Age
    16
    Posts
    3,456
    Rep Power
    138

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    I would just leave it be, because no one would die. Nope. Not even one.

    1. Railway tracks are very uneven and bumpy. I doubt that the trolley would even go past the first track without stopping or drastically slowing down, even if it were fast.

    2. A trolley would have a REALLY hard time killing a person, let alone a group of 'em while slowed down by the uneven surface of the railway. Even at relatively high speeds, it can perhaps cause a broken foot at most, but it would eventually heal most of the time.

    (But if you used a cargo train instead of a shopping trolley, oh hooooo...now we'll be talkin')
    Last edited by WineRose; February 8th, 2018 at 09:47 AM.
    joefizz likes this.
    Self-appointed meme President of CC.

    My top 3 favorite quotes on this site:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly View Post
    From teen surfing to Hitler. Quite a leap. And you want her son to be a vibrant, joyful woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by wwjd_kilden View Post
    I think we should rename the BDF to the "If you disagree with me you are not only unsaved but you are siding with people trying to blow up the world" - forum
    Quote Originally Posted by EarnestQ View Post
    I hate it when some 15 year old girl trolls my very serious important thread. lol


    :P

  13. #13
    Senior Member Depleted's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 13th, 2015
    Age
    62
    Posts
    22,175
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    509

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Socreta93 View Post
    There is a runaway trolley barrelling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person tied up on the side track. You have two options:

    1. Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track.
    2. Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person


    Here is something to note, you can kill that one person to save 1 but your're deliberately pulling the lever. You can do nothing and maybe your conscious would be clean since there was nothing you can do.
    This is called "situational ethics." It is taught as "effective education." I know this, because I was young-and-dumb enough to teach it as my first fulltime job after college.

    Here are the problems with it:
    1. It teaches only two possible choices, and either choice is bad. How often does a dilemma only have two choices? Not even this one did. (My choice would have been to wake up from the dream, since, clearly, no one is tying six people on railway tracks just to see if someone would pull the switch. Note: Post had another choice.)

    2. It teaches that no matter what you choose you are a good person.

    3. It's purpose in teaching is for everyone to have "good self-esteem," under the delusion that good self-esteems stops people from doing "bad things." However, if you are being taught to do something bad or to do something badder, exactly how well is it stopping people from doing bad things?

    This is world-speak, double-talk, 1984ism at it's finest. It is not the gospel. It is not godly. It is anti-god.

    Now, I truly get that Soc is posting this just to have lively debate. He is not anti-god simply because he posted this. He probably didn't even know what this was about, but then again. That's why I spelled it out.

    It's very easy, even as Christians, to think we're doing okay at discussing things like this as if it is a real scenario. And it is, except when we don't understand why there are so many such scenarios out there and what it is truly trying to promote.

    I taught this in 1978-1979. I was a young Christian back in those days, (physically and spiritually speaking.) And I must admit, I cheated on the lesson plans. After letting the kids discuss the two choices given for a while, I presented something else to the scenario -- another choice. One that didn't mean making the best of two lousy choices. And, in doing so, I truly hoped I taught them to think for themselves, rather than assume an authoritative figure gave them all they needed to know.

    Here it is 40 years later, and look how well the youth of that day got brainwashed into the worldly doctrine of today. If Christians don't get the hidden message, how are we to show the world?
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  14. #14
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    43
    Posts
    7,221
    Rep Power
    243

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx View Post
    Socreta I know you are trying to start conversations, and I give you props for that. Not many people want to start a thread these days, with so many critics waiting to pounce on and denigrate an idea.

    But I never could take the trolley problem seriously. It's just too contrived. It's supposed to be a foil for those who believe all ethical problems are black-and-white, but my first question is "Who is tying all these people up and leaving them on the tracks?" My second question is "Why can the trolley not just stop?" My third question would be "What am I doing standing beside a switch when the trolley driver can't flip it for himself?" I have a lot of other questions about the trolley problem, but it goes downhill from here.

    Sorry, I just can't take it seriously. The best I can do is supply some levity and move on. Hopefully somebody else can be serious about it.


    So you first criticize all the people who who criticize the trolley idea...
    then you go on to criticize the trolley idea.


    So it's fine for YOU to have a critical opinion,
    but it's a sin for other people to have a critical opinion?


    You'll probably prove my point by responding to this comment with something critical...
    and be critical of ME for having a critical opinion in the midst of your own critical opinions.





    If you're going to speak critically about the critical opinions of others,
    it would be hypocritical to act as if "critical opinions" are a sin....
    since you'd be in the very act of giving your own critical opinion.

    I think it's best if we all just speak our minds freely,
    as we're allowed to do here,
    and everyone learns to wear their big boy pants.










    Last edited by maxwel; February 8th, 2018 at 12:09 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    43
    Posts
    7,221
    Rep Power
    243

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    Lynx,

    Before this gets worse, how about I just apologize for being so cranky and snippy.


    I haven't been feeling well, and I think I've been pretty ill tempered lately.
    Since you and I have had some problems in the past, how about we take this to PM, try to chat, and see if we can sort things out?

    If you'd like to chat, and sort things out, and try to improve things, please send me a PM.
    posthuman and tourist like this.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 13th, 2014
    Age
    40
    Posts
    12,477
    Rep Power
    206

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    Maxwell:

    First, I alluded to people who sit back and criticize everything without contributing anything useful themselves.

    Second, I criticized an idea... One single idea which is at the heart ludicrous... Not everything the OP has ever started here. There is nothing at all illogical about mentioning people who criticize everything, and then criticizing an idea myself. And I was only criticizing it to illustrate why I could not take the idea seriously, and thus attempt an explanation of why this thread has not gotten the serious comments Socreto seems to want.

    Third, you didn't have to tell me you have been cranky lately. That has been very obvious.
    tourist likes this.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Susanna's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 21st, 2013
    Age
    42
    Posts
    2,567
    Rep Power
    74

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    If my memory serves me correctly the Brits, during WWIl, sacrifized Coventry so that the Germans wouldn't get to know that they had busted the Enigma code...and...as for good ole Harry S...I think he, rightfully or not, was thinking he could save lives by dropping those two bombs...

    Was it right or was it wrong? I guess no one can tell.

    That might be the point regarding the trolley problem as well. You can never know what is the best thing to do, even though it seems to be clear on a sunny day.
    seoulsearch, Tommy379 and Waggles like this.
    AWV

  18. #18
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    43
    Posts
    7,221
    Rep Power
    243

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx View Post
    Maxwell:

    First, I alluded to people who sit back and criticize everything without contributing anything useful themselves.

    Second, I criticized an idea... One single idea which is at the heart ludicrous... Not everything the OP has ever started here. There is nothing at all illogical about mentioning people who criticize everything, and then criticizing an idea myself. And I was only criticizing it to illustrate why I could not take the idea seriously, and thus attempt an explanation of why this thread has not gotten the serious comments Socreto seems to want.

    Third, you didn't have to tell me you have been cranky lately. That has been very obvious.

    No worries.


    I tried to reach out to you, and take this to PM, and maybe sort out some past differences, but you were unwilling.

    So I'll put you back on ignore, and we can both just go on our merry ways.

    It's all good.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Waggles's Avatar
    Join Date
    September 21st, 2017
    Age
    63
    Posts
    1,749
    Rep Power
    100

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    I see you're back!
    for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
    1Corinthians 9:16

  20. #20
    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 31st, 2013
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,747
    Rep Power
    432

    Default Re: The Trolley Problem, kill 1 to save 5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx View Post
    I want to know who is tying these people up and leaving them on tracks.

    Snidely Whiplash, i thought '
    obviously' ... ?


    tourist and plainguy like this.
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: February 4th, 2017, 01:31 PM
  2. ....UGH... Don't kill me bro!
    By ramx2016 in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: February 29th, 2016, 01:47 PM
  3. The Trolley Problem
    By kip-s in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: March 1st, 2013, 01:06 PM
  4. You shall not kill!
    By Ramon in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: September 3rd, 2011, 06:47 AM