A List

First off this is not a hate thread but I'd like some constructive criticism of the Catholic Faith. The reason is two of my friends are Catholic and I'd like to compile a list of reasons they should give it up. I've avoided this because I didn't want to offend them but it has to be said. I'm having surgery soon and although it's a small percentage I could very well die from it. I don't want it to be left unsaid. I'll start it off 1ray to Mary and the saints 2:work based salvation 3: cover ups of misconduct 4:the pope is held in the same regard as God that's all I can think of but please feel free to add to it the more the better. I'd like a list I can read from because I easily get flustered and forgetful when speaking.

Ummm...

1. Praying to Mary and/or the saints is pointless. They are dead and can neither hear nor answer prayers.

2. Catholicism is a works-based religion. Works are not what saves us.

3. Definite cover ups of misconduct.

4. The pope is NOT God, nor should he be held in such esteem. The pope is a mortal, fallible, evil human. They all are.

5. Using rosaries is fruitless. Prayers said to Mary are NOT heard by God.

6. Confession is also useless. A human priest cannot forgive sins. Only GOD can do that, and priests are not God.

7. Praying to statues (other gods) is useless. Statues have no power.

Not sure i can answer all but will try.
Praying to mary or asking her to intercede for them from my point of view is a sin cuz that's the work of the son (jesus) and we don't know for sure whether or not mary is in heaven and even if she was it's still pointless.
2. Saved by works.. i suggest going to the not by works thread and picking out true and meaningful points.... no need to join the argument.
4. I asked my granny about the pope this afternoon. We don't know for sure the pope is actually of God (not saying he isn't) and noe one should be held in the same position as their creator. God is supreme and has the final say and even the pope's life is in God's hand to use or destroy.
I hope that helped

I would not try to discredit their faith unless you personally know a more spiritual type of faith in a different type of church setting. As far as work based salvation is concerned during each mass a confirmation of faith in the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for their sins is said along with a belief in the trinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I was raised a Catholic and have attended mass countess times. I stopped going years ago because a lot of church doctrine is contrary to the bible but this is probably true for any denomination. Rather than trying to sway your friends to forsake their assembling together with others you might consider explaining the plan of salvation to them because this is of the utmost importance. Another thing, the Pope is not the church, the church is the body of believers that attend mass. In practically every denomination there have been scandals that were covered up. This is not a unique problem with the Catholic Church. I would be more concerned with your friends if they had no faith at in spiritual matters of the Word of God regardless of the church they attended.

If you discuss your friends reasons for remaining in the Roman Catholic faith, you may very well discover that it is mostly based on family tradition. Many of the RC's I have spoken to realize all the faults of the RC church, and many of them have submitted to Christ as Lord and Savior, and ignore the apostasy, such as the rosary, statues etc.
I recently went to a funeral at a RC church and was surprised to find that there were no statues at all.
Before attacking the negative aspects of the RC church, try and discover what your fiends know about the Gospel and Salvation. Concentrate on their knowledge about our Lord and God's will for all people.

You did an excellent job explaining your positon on this matter.

You wrote an outstanding reply and I'm most impressed how you articulated your position. Well done.

Thanks..........

...your granny sounds like a wonderful person too.

Wait, what? You can be a Catholic, in good standing with your local church, saved and on your way to Heaven according to the pastor... er, according to the priest at your church - and be an atheist who doesn't even believe in the Heaven the priest claims he is going to?

How does that work? And how do I get in on this? It sounds a lot easier than what the Bible says, and I am indolent by nature.

She is but she can get really annoying at times... but she is lol

Thanks for your honest answers it occurred to me to just request she and he read the bible themselves. I always come up with a better solution after I go on the rant :/ it's one of my many faults

Actually she was referring to the range of beliefs and taking two opposite ends of the spectrum as examples. But it could easily be misread as all being one belief the way it was worded.

Joseph Smith had a belief that was not part of the Bible,and it became his foundation for the interpretation of scriptures,the Mormon Church.

And Scientology,Christian Science,the new age movement occult interpretation of the Bible,and grave errors such as them had a belief that was not part of the Bible,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

The same goes with the Roman Catholic Church,that it is obvious that when they embraced the Bible,Christianity,that they did not get rid of their pagan ways,but held unto them and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

And aside from saved by works they have so many practices that appear pagan,traditions,and unnecessary,and so so many practices such as that,too numerous to even name them all from the top of your head unless you actually looked in to all the details,and if you did it would boggle your mind all the things they do,and you would see the paganism course through their veins.

And it is ridiculous all the different things they do and say,and believe,and I mean it is a lot.

And seriously grave errors,and I mean seriously grave errors.

Jesus was speaking to a crowd,and His disciples said,Jesus your mother and brethren are outside the crowd desiring to speak to you,and Jesus said,who is My mother,and who are My brethren,and pointed to His disciples and said,behold My mother,and brethren,for whoever does the will of My Father,the same is My mother,and brethren,and sisters.

Jesus was speaking to a crowd and a woman spoke up and basically said,blessed is the woman that gave birth to you,and Jesus said,yea rather,blessed is the person that hears the word of God and does it.

So Jesus did not give reverence to Mary,but put her in the same boat as all the saints,and on an equal level.

And that is because she is a saint as anyone else,and we all have our labor as she had her labor(no pun intended),and God does not value one person's labor greater than another person's labor,but that you do the labor God has for you.

And also God said to not make an image of anything in heaven,the sea,or the earth,and bow down to it,but they have a statue of Mary,and they exalt her above who she is in the kingdom of God going as far as saying she is the mother of God,and the Queen of heaven,and that kind of reverence to Mary is a grave error for all glory goes to God.

God said do not make an image of Him and bow down to it for you do not know what He looks like,and also we bow down to the Spirit of God not a physical object.

They call the Pope Holy Father,and head of the Church.

A man came to Jesus and said,good master,and Jesus said,why call Me good,for there is only one that is good,and that is God,which the man Christ Jesus was giving glory to God that He only did good because God is causing Him to do good.

Jesus said call no man father on earth,but only your Father in heaven,which means you can call your earthly father,father,but do not call any man father in a spiritual sense,which they also call the priests father,which is not right unless they are their natural father,and they say it in that sense.

The Bible says that Christ is the head of the Church.

So that is a grave error to look at the Pope in that way exalting him in a way that he should not be exalted for he is a common saint like all other saints(if he were in the truth).

There is one God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus,and if we sin we have an advocate with the Father,Jesus Christ the righteous.

Only God can forgive sins,and we have forgiveness by Jesus Christ,so they should not be confessing their sins to a priest,and they give them more power than they should have.

But that is how the Roman Catholic Church operates with its pagan roots,which pagan religions like to put importance on people as something special above what God says they are,and the Bible says if any person thinks they are something when they are nothing,they deceive themselves.

Jesus has made all the saints priests and kings unto God the Father,but they have a priesthood singling them out to be more important when all the saints are priests according to Jesus with Him being the High Priest.

Praying over rosary beads,and placing spiritual importance on physical objects,which is something pagans and occultists do.

That is some big errors,and it is obvious when the Roman Empire embraced the Bible,Christianity,that they did not get rid of their pagan ways,but they held unto them,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures,like many other people that had a belief that was not part of the Bible,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

Which it goes beyond someone that reads the Bible but might not interpret some things correctly,but they are dragging beliefs that are not part of the Bible,and big errors,and it is their foundation,which causes a big error in their interpretation of scriptures.

Which God warns the saints of the new age movement interpretation of the Bible that will lead to the beast kingdom in Revelation 13,and the world rebels against God,which God puts them down,because the new age movement dragged the occult,nature worship,witchcraft,and spiritual evolution through nature,and people can still evolve,and honor the God of forces,or the power of nature as their higher power,into the Bible,and it is their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

And I believe the Pope,and the Vatican,are going to slowly bring it out to the Catholic Church,and try to bring together all Christian denominations,and all religions,with the core belief of evolution,and the God of forces,and they can have the Christ conscience,and be an ascended master,and avatar,like Christ,and want to produce the New Age Christ,so they can evolve,and to establish the kingdom of God on earth,which they will worship the man of sin who will claim to be the highest power by the power of nature.

Many Catholics will not follow them when it gets to that point,for it will be too far fetched for them,and they will not believe it.

Which the Bible says the Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts them down,which she will branch out in to ten horns,which is the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and the little horn,New Age Christ,will come from the ten horns,and they will devour the whole earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces,and the beast will have power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,those that do not love God.

That includes all Caucasian led nations including America,Canada,Australia,New Zealand,and Europe,and any territory of a Caucasian led ethnic group,for it will be the power base of the beast,and will pull in all nations.

This does not mean the Caucasians are any more cruel than any other humans for God said what makes you to differ from another person,and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,but the Caucasians were the last to get power,so they could retain it,and with technology they are even more dangerous with advanced weapons and can branch out farther,but all nations,and ethnic groups,push for power,but when the other kingdoms got knocked down they could never rise again.

Since the Roman Catholic Church is basically their religious institution then the Church will change with the times,and being influenced to do such as she become Mystery Babylon,the mother of all the false religions that will be interpreted by the new age movement where they are not compatible with the Pope as the spiritual head,and the Vatican as the headquarters,which the unified religious system will operate for three and one half years,which people can practice their religious practices in their religions,but true religion is evolution,and the God of forces,power of nature,and any belief preached contrary is not tolerated on a world wide scale.

When the man of sin,the beast,New Age Christ,claims to have harnessed the power of nature,obtained power,evolved,the false prophet,Pope,will do miracles in the sight of people to convince them the beast did receive power through nature,and gave this power to the second beast,and will give this power to all who follow him,and then they will get rid of the whore,Mystery Babylon,unified religious system,for they have no need for her because they believe they got what they wanted,the New Age Christ to give them power through nature to evolve.

But the Bible says the miracles are lying wonders,so the devil will falsify them somehow,and there is no power to be obtained,but they took the mark of the beast,which has to do with technology,so it is too late for them to repent,and be saved,and God will end this sin business on earth.

Some people believe that Islam will take over the world but this is not true,especially when Europe and America have their own plan going on,and they have the power,and they have the dominion,and Allah is a false God so there is no power there.

God said Iraq,Iran,will never have physical dominion after they fell,which no Arab nations will have any power,for they are not going anywhere to have their way on earth,and America is messing with them,and if they appear to have any power it is because they are letting them get away with it,for they do not mind that because they want them to push for a little power in other nations,because they want to cause the world to hate,and fear them,for when the nations come together they want to clash with them and put them down,but as far as their actual Arab countries they will hinder them from having any serious power.

The Roman Empire has the dominion until God puts them down,so the Roman Catholic Church will change along with them to look at religion according to evolution,and people can still evolve,and to produce the New Age Christ who will claim to be God by the power of nature,the highest power,and there is no personal God,but the God of forces.

I know the Roman Catholic Church can appear as harmless,and loving God,which many of them do,and they do not see it as a danger,but it is dangerous with their grave errors,and all glory goes to God,and their occult,pagan ways,and that they will soon be a part of the new age movement in the future in observation,although many of them are that way at the higher levels,but they want to bring it out slowly.

This is how it appears to me by the reading of the Bible,and the way the Roman Catholic Church operates.

Why am i not surprised. Lol