Denominations in which pastor's livelihood is NOT dependent on congregation
- Thread starter WeThotUWasAToad
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Actually, many well established denominations (not all) are not dependent on offerings from their congregations on a week-by-week basis.
Probably the index case here would the RCC - if they were a company they would be a multi-billion dollar enterprise!
Other denominations may not have the same financial muscle but they still have substantial sums invested in all sorts of business activities that might amount to hundreds of millions of dollars down to much less impressive amounts...
In these organisations an individual congregation may not cover its expenses for a considerable period and its pastors would still be well paid.
However, it is also true that many independent churches cannot allow their expenses to outrun their income for more than a very short time without it causing problems...
By the way I don't think is is fair to assume that a well cashed up church or denomination is automatically a negative indicator of their spiritual state, any more than a poor church is an indicator of spiritual health!
Probably the index case here would the RCC - if they were a company they would be a multi-billion dollar enterprise!
Other denominations may not have the same financial muscle but they still have substantial sums invested in all sorts of business activities that might amount to hundreds of millions of dollars down to much less impressive amounts...
In these organisations an individual congregation may not cover its expenses for a considerable period and its pastors would still be well paid.
However, it is also true that many independent churches cannot allow their expenses to outrun their income for more than a very short time without it causing problems...
By the way I don't think is is fair to assume that a well cashed up church or denomination is automatically a negative indicator of their spiritual state, any more than a poor church is an indicator of spiritual health!
In the early Church, that is before 313 AD ALL the Pastors/Teachers/Elders/Bishops (which are names for the same ministry gift) worked in secular jobs, all this changed after Constantine issued the Edict of Toleration (Milan) when he gave the Church power wealth and position (which they then relied upon), before this the Church had been persecuted and relied upon God!
So after 313 AD in came unbelief, worldliness and coveteousness and out went faith and the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.
The Protestant Church has generally also followed the pattern of the Roman Catholic Church!
So after 313 AD in came unbelief, worldliness and coveteousness and out went faith and the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.
The Protestant Church has generally also followed the pattern of the Roman Catholic Church!
Jesus did not rely. Paul admitted that he would not rely so as not to become a burden. There is no record in the New Testament of one relying on the congregation fully. Only that is acceptable to partake of the fruits thereof.
So with that; why would you say what you say? One who lived as Christ and Paul would be of the BEST; GOD.
Right?
The bigger issue is where and why did the Church; the Body of Christ become so dependent on pastors and the lot thereof?
Tis a loaded question. Just curious as to what you think.
So with that; why would you say what you say? One who lived as Christ and Paul would be of the BEST; GOD.
Right?
The bigger issue is where and why did the Church; the Body of Christ become so dependent on pastors and the lot thereof?
Tis a loaded question. Just curious as to what you think.
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There are now many home churches with small groups of probably around 20. Mostly led by ordained pastors. And there is no offering unless it is to help someone who is needy. If there is food, the people bring it. But no obligation.
These home based churches are for the most part non-denominational, but the few that I have attended are really no different than the protestant churches - they even have people who lead worship. But if they do not, singing is still there. The advantage of these groups is that not only is there no upkeep, but every one get to be prayed for if they desire it. And I find that there is more opening up of needs when the group is small and trust is built up.
Also, the gifts are encouraged and affirmed. Those who feel led to teach are given chances to grow in that ministry.
These home based churches are for the most part non-denominational, but the few that I have attended are really no different than the protestant churches - they even have people who lead worship. But if they do not, singing is still there. The advantage of these groups is that not only is there no upkeep, but every one get to be prayed for if they desire it. And I find that there is more opening up of needs when the group is small and trust is built up.
Also, the gifts are encouraged and affirmed. Those who feel led to teach are given chances to grow in that ministry.
D
Compared to sermons where interaction comes from the congregation? Pastors are charged with caring for the flock. Seems a shame your pastor is stuck paying his own way, then taking care of his family, as well as caring for the flock.
I've gone to churches where the pastor was a mechanical engineer. He didn't have time to prepare a sermon, so he winged it. Can't remember a thing I learned from him, other than how to tell a good story.
I went to a church so poor we couldn't afford a full-time pastor. So we paid itinerant pastors, while they went to seminary. Four of them, so each one had a month to prepare their sermon. (Gave them time to go to school, study, time with their family, and they even managed time with us too.) And what did we get? Four new friends, willing to help out when we needed to do something to bring in the neighborhood or help to fix something broken in the church building. And we all had jobs to do ourselves, so we shared the load on helping people in the church or evangelizing. Those sermons I remembered.
And I've been in large churches where paying the pastor was easy. Matter of fact, three teaching elders, seven ruling elders, (they're the guys in charge of visiting the sick, helping the needy, and each had their own ministry), and I don't know how many deacons. (Deacons were like Stephen. They literally feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and give assistance with any emergency need.)
Even there, the sermons were about the Bible, not about co-workers. And their antidotes had everything to do with rubbing elbows with others, because no one was so isolated they couldn't find time to do that. Big church. Lots of people, and we worked together.
I've gone to churches where the pastor was a mechanical engineer. He didn't have time to prepare a sermon, so he winged it. Can't remember a thing I learned from him, other than how to tell a good story.
I went to a church so poor we couldn't afford a full-time pastor. So we paid itinerant pastors, while they went to seminary. Four of them, so each one had a month to prepare their sermon. (Gave them time to go to school, study, time with their family, and they even managed time with us too.) And what did we get? Four new friends, willing to help out when we needed to do something to bring in the neighborhood or help to fix something broken in the church building. And we all had jobs to do ourselves, so we shared the load on helping people in the church or evangelizing. Those sermons I remembered.
And I've been in large churches where paying the pastor was easy. Matter of fact, three teaching elders, seven ruling elders, (they're the guys in charge of visiting the sick, helping the needy, and each had their own ministry), and I don't know how many deacons. (Deacons were like Stephen. They literally feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and give assistance with any emergency need.)
Even there, the sermons were about the Bible, not about co-workers. And their antidotes had everything to do with rubbing elbows with others, because no one was so isolated they couldn't find time to do that. Big church. Lots of people, and we worked together.
Depleted: I never said we don't pay our pastor. We do pay him, $2,000 a month if I recall correctly from our January church business meeting. He and his wife do a lot more at church than just preach from the pulpit.
We also have a church-maintained retirement account for our senior (retired) pastor, an 86 year old gentleman who is known in the whole town. If you say "The Pentecostal Church" some people here might not know which church you are talking about, but if you say "Brother (name redacted)'s church" they know where that is.
But our pastor also has a job at a factory. He had that job long before he became our pastor, and there is no reason in the world for him to quit it right now.
Depleted lately I have noticed you often fire before making sure of your target. Perhaps in this case a better response would have been to first ascertain whether we pay our pastor, and THEN you could have remonstrated with me about our church not paying him.
We also have a church-maintained retirement account for our senior (retired) pastor, an 86 year old gentleman who is known in the whole town. If you say "The Pentecostal Church" some people here might not know which church you are talking about, but if you say "Brother (name redacted)'s church" they know where that is.
But our pastor also has a job at a factory. He had that job long before he became our pastor, and there is no reason in the world for him to quit it right now.
Depleted lately I have noticed you often fire before making sure of your target. Perhaps in this case a better response would have been to first ascertain whether we pay our pastor, and THEN you could have remonstrated with me about our church not paying him.