We're these miracles, too?

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K

kenisyes

Guest
#1
An unknown ex-carpenter starts a ministry, and in less than 2 years, he has 82 people willing to take vacation time from work, going two-by-two village to village, and in a couple weeks, they collect 12,000 people to hear him preach on a hillside. Most of them are so excited, they forget to bring a lunch.

120 people rent a room and start praying. Some strange things, like wind and tongues of fire happen, and in one day, 12 of them are running a 3000 person mega-church in a new denomination no one ever heard of. Within a month, they have a network of home churches set up, and some people are willing to tithe every penny they have in the world to be part of it.

Miracles? We don't think of them that way, but maybe we ought to. The challenge of this thread is to give us a convincing story that they could happen today. With all of our internet, and TV, and satellite based smart-phones, could it be done? Has it been done? Any ministry becoming that big, that fast? Or any voluntary secular institution that big that fast, without the pressure of the law to force it, or the money to buy it, but just on faith or hope alone, in any endeavor?
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#2

Yes, I think God is moving fast and mightily in our world today.

It started with the holocaust. What a shocker that was to all of us, and each person has reacted in some way.

Then the Jews started returning to the Holy Land. Most of those returning are actually not aware that they are acting as God has it planned, but almost every Christian is looking at this and wondering.

Then they suddenly found some scriptures in some caves that had been there for thousands of years, but all of a sudden they were found. It has taken years for the fallout to happen from that, and some are still wondering about it. The first news was finding that scripture hasn’t changed that much. That was ashocker. It was copied by hand, even, for years and years. It was repeated from memory at first. That meant there was human error to be expected, yet there wasn’t any major error.

Now, we are finding from the scholars who study all the findings that it led to them being able to read the writing in other archeological findings and learn about OT culture. There was a lot of “oh, THAT is what that scripture is talking about!” from that. Even the NT is becoming clearer.

Every day happenings or God working in a supernatural way for something for us?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#3
An unknown ex-carpenter starts a ministry, and in less than 2 years, he has 82 people willing to take vacation time from work, going two-by-two village to village, and in a couple weeks, they collect 12,000 people to hear him preach on a hillside. Most of them are so excited, they forget to bring a lunch.

120 people rent a room and start praying. Some strange things, like wind and tongues of fire happen, and in one day, 12 of them are running a 3000 person mega-church in a new denomination no one ever heard of. Within a month, they have a network of home churches set up, and some people are willing to tithe every penny they have in the world to be part of it.

Miracles? We don't think of them that way, but maybe we ought to. The challenge of this thread is to give us a convincing story that they could happen today. With all of our internet, and TV, and satellite based smart-phones, could it be done? Has it been done? Any ministry becoming that big, that fast? Or any voluntary secular institution that big that fast, without the pressure of the law to force it, or the money to buy it, but just on faith or hope alone, in any endeavor?
I think we need to be careful of turning ministry into an uber cool stat sheet that makes us feel good because it has large numbers.

You mentioned that 12,000 heard him preach on hillside. Yet there were only 120 left praying on Pentecost.
That's a ginormous loss of people. Maybe they should have served cookies and doughnuts and gotten a smoke machine to keep the hillside sitters around?

Also there was MUCH anticipation for Messiah.
Chronologically they were in Daniel's 70 weeks and the time for Messiah was near.
They had Messiah fever.
A sign of the Messiah was folks speaking in tongues and the Spirit being poured out.

So it shouldn't be shocking that so many JEWS who gathered in Jerusalem converted on Pentecost when they literally saw prophecy coming true.

That explains the HUGE growth.

Unfortunately because of dispensationalism some folks miss that aspect.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#4
You have not answered the question about the 12,000. The miracle, if there was one, was in how fast they were gathered. Or do you mean, as you say about Pentecost, that Jesus was just so spectacular after two years, they all wanted to come out to see Him when invited?

If the cause of the conversions was seeing prophecy coming true, then was there a miracle in how fast the 12 could adjust to the sudden growth? And after they all left from the hillside, why did thy not leave here right away?

I have no intention of turning ministry into a stat sheet. I understand your concern.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#5

Yes, I think God is moving fast and mightily in our world today.
I agree, Red Tent, but not in the same way as the events in the OP?