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Grey
Guest
Atheist is the rejection of the belief in the existence of a deity.
agnostic is the belief that the existence of a deity is unkown
agnostic is the belief that the existence of a deity is unkown
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Grey
Guest
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danschance
Guest
Opinions are like noses, everyone has one and they are all different.
An gnostic atheist is still an atheist.
If one says "I disbelieve in a god", that is still a belief, even if he or she denies having any such belief. It is all just a case of semantics.
An gnostic atheist is still an atheist.
If one says "I disbelieve in a god", that is still a belief, even if he or she denies having any such belief. It is all just a case of semantics.
Ugh i really thought we already resolved this.
If i say i believe there is no god, that's a gnostic atheist and is a belief.
If i say i don't know, that's an agnostic.
If i say i don't believe in a god, that's an atheist and is a disbelief.
A disbelief is not a belief in itself, that's stupid. It's like saying no hobby is still a hobby. It's an absense of belief, so there isn't a belief in that.
If you were right, then i would literally have infinite beliefs in the things i DISBELIEVE.
Either way, theists have not met their burden of proof so anyway you spin it, i believe or disbelieve, i have no good reason to believe in theistic claims. Whether that's a belief or not is irrellevent, even though it's not
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kenisyes
Guest
It occurs to me that it is impossible to place either the existence of God or the non-existence of God on a rational footing. Reason is a process of the mind, and the human mind is simply not large enough, either to explain God if one should see Him, or to have inspected the place where He could be, and determine He is not there.
As Christians, do we not believe that relationship with Jesus is the only path to relationship with the Father, and that relationship is what He wants?
As Christians, do we not believe that relationship with Jesus is the only path to relationship with the Father, and that relationship is what He wants?
The thing is, you don't know.
If you say god is too incomprehendable too understand, how can you comprehend how to get to the father? How donyou know jesus is the way?
If you're going to state a god or holy figure is incomprehendable, you then cannot claim an easy to way to reach this incomprehendable being
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Grey
Guest
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kenisyes
Guest
Logically, you are quite correct. It's a good thing the way we reach the Father is not logical.
How I personally know Jesus is the way would be irrelevant to you for this very reason. Really, only Jesus can show you.
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kenisyes
Guest
Are you sure you want to get this technical (in Christian thoelogy) in this thread? Before Jesus came, God related to people in special ways at certain times, so that Jesus could come. It is the expectation of Jesus that God relied on to make His relationship with Moses. (This theology works for everyone except Adam and Eve prior to their sin, who had their relationship with God prior to their sin only.)
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kenisyes
Guest
I feel the same way for you that a person who can see color feels for a color-blind person, only moreso.
No offense intended but couldn't one just as easily take the title of this thread and replace the word "atheists" with "Christians"
and have the same argument? After all, they have the burden of proof.
and have the same argument? After all, they have the burden of proof.
Atheism is a disbelief in god, we don't have a burden of proof. Christians are the ones asserting this claim, therefore they are the ones that require the burden of proof
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Siberian_Khatru
Guest
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Grey
Guest
The Torah finishes as I recall with the prophecy that there will be another Elijah, I'm sure you know if you were to talk to a Jewish person, they would say they're still living in expectation of a future messiah, a few might even view Jesus the way some Christians view Muhammad.
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kenisyes
Guest
Since the thread is going stale, there is no harm in my giving you a proper response (I had not responded before, so we would not be hijacking a thread). You are quite correct, most Jews do not believe Jesus was the Messiah and are still waiting. The Jewish people share the theology I gave at first, as they believe that the blessing of Abraham is for all people, and that the Messiah will spring from David's loins. Hence, the Jews are there partially to be the people who will give birth to the Messiah (someday to come), who will then give the blessing of Abraham (their father) to all the world. Thus, at some level at least, Jews exist so that the Messiah can be born. Consequently, to at least some amount, God created the Jews (as a nation through Moses) for the purpose of the Messiah, and that was my original statement (post 191) amended with the word "Messiah to come" in place of "Jesus".