Gay Marriage

I was wondering what the general opinion about gay marriage is on this site. I have a few questions I'd like to ask.

What do you think about gay marriage?

What do you think about civil unions between homosexuals that carries all the perks of marriage, except for the word "Married"

What do you think about homosexuality? Is it a choice? Are homosexuals ****ed? Can someone be "cured" of homosexuality?

Does anyone think that the defense of marriage act is constitutional? Please keep in mind the "full faith and credit" clause of the constitution.

Should government have any control over marriage? As of right now it is left to the states. This is where "full faith and credit" applies.

Thank you for posting!

-Zalen

In the world separate from God homosexuality will be whatever is acceptable to the world. If One believes in Jesus, then one will choose to do all that Our Lord God asks them to do or obey. Believing in Jesus and obeying his word is not to condem but to hope for others and witness that hope. So that all may know the faith, hope , love and salvation that is Gods gift. My heart aches for those that do not know, because of what is lost by any who choose not to believe in Jesus. To watch those refuse, wether homosexualor any other reason, is to see those ones lose a great gift and the eternal life, joy, love that begins in faith here and continues for ever. I know this sounds like the same words many have said before, but I do feel sorrow and cry often for those lost. I believe it is the cross Jesus said we must bear for one another. This sorrow does not take from the joy of knowing Jesus. It simply gives all who know him the hope and want that all will believe. God bless, pickles

What do I think about gay marriage? Plain and simple it is sin. Levitcus 20:13 Romans 1:26-27 just a few examples. As far as the constitution is concerned I will say this, the constitution is an important document. But what should we use to govern our lives? The word of men? Or the words of holy and just God?
Anyways that's my feeling on that. Feel free to agree or not.

Legislature ,such as the D.O.M.A. of Sept.21 1996, is a necessary, but temporary means of preserving an institution which many, in our time, are attempting to redefine. Legalizing same sex marriage is no more worthy of congressional debate than the issue of allowing an adolescent to marry an adult. These attempts, being made by zealous groups who seize opportunities to test the boundaries of God’s patience, are, in fact, not genuinely petitioning the government to receive additional freedoms, but rather, are skillfully redefining perversion.

The shear nature of the discussion regarding the allowance of a redefinition of marriage through legislative or judicial means, is a clear indication of the drastic shift which has occurred in this nation’s perception of morality and some of the most fundamental precepts in the bible. These individuals attempt to cast guilt on the American people by creating a false case of victimization. Sometimes even equating the African-American struggles to those of the homosexual population. Being African-American, and also Christian, I find this comparison of race and perversion to be both inaccurate and offensive, however forgivable.

Let us be clear, If what was being discussed was a simple platonic friendship between individuals of the same sex, there would be no issue to discuss, no war to wage. But, because Americans are not naïve, in this internet age, everyone is aware of the sexual aspects of these types of relationships as well as the repercussions that government/state sanctioned perversions would hurl onto society. This endorsement , whether progressing at a federal or state level would only represent a crack in the dam, which at present might only trickle, but would soon give way to additional legislation affecting our educational and religious systems, not to mention, a further redefining of the family unit as we know it.

The nature of every perversion is rooted in experiences which have influenced or affected the mental/spiritual state in a manner so as to produce deviant behavior on one or several levels. Simply because the causative factors are not always easily identifiable, does not mean they are not present, and it is becoming increasingly unpopular for those exhibiting homosexual/gay/lesbian tendencies to volunteer truthful, vital information about their past, collected as data by psychiatric institutions, which could be used as an explanation for the behavior. Many are coerced by those who have accepted homosexual behavior as an alternative lifestyle, to either conceal it, (don’t ask don’t tell), or to proudly proclaim that they are finally ‘coming out’, (embracing their true identity). This only fortifies the deception in the minds of those experiencing homosexual desires, and feeds a society now starving for ‘change’.

One of my closest friends was set free from homosexuality after having participated in that lifestyle for years. The battle which ensued thereafter was not unlike someone breaking free from pornography addiction, uncontrollable promiscuity, or any other compulsive or habitual behavior.

No one needs to feel condemned or even guilty for being attracted to members of the same sex, but how we perceive and express those feelings is extremely significant to our mental and spiritual wellbeing. There is both forgiveness and freedom for those who choose not to defend or redefine their sin. God is faithful to honor his word which promises that if we pray, receiving Jesus as the Lord of our lives, surrendering, giving control to Him, He will be faithful to do His part in forgiving us for our sins, and in beginning the progressive process of cleansing us from unrighteousness and providing us with the power to be free from destructive lifestyles.

I am libertarian on the issue of gay marriage. I have no say in what consenting adults do with their lives, as long as what they do does not harm others. The church can decide whether it wants to recognize gay marriage as legitimate unions, but when it comes to the state--that is, two people entering into a contract together--the government should make no discrimination. It's similar to the issue of alcohol: you may believe drinking is a sin, but we do not have the right as a society to prohibit people from drinking alcohol until it infringes on others' rights--which is why we have harsh drunk driving laws, etc. We cannot outlaw something just because we believe it is immoral: if we did, then people would go to prison for having sex outside of marriage, or for eating too much, or for seeing a hungry person and not giving him anything to eat. This sort of practice would not be conducive to having a free society. I believe as Christians we are better off not trying to outlaw everything we see as sin, because freedom for them means freedom for us. Once we start encroaching on others' civil rights, we open the door for them to encroach on our rights. If we push to ban gay marriages (a civil institution), we set a dangerous legal precedent. We win people over by love, and by example, not by hatred and legislation.

I have a few questions about some of your arguments songster:

I don't necessarily understand how allowing homosexuals to enter in civil unions would alter our education or our religion. Religion can not be defined by government and may chose to reject gay marriages, even if they are legally represented by the state. I see absolutley no connection concerning education and homosexual unions, would you please elaborate a little more on that point?

I believe that comparing the plights of homosexuals to the horrific history of slaves is hyperbole, but gays are the victims of hate in our nation. Many gays have been killed because of their sexuality. They are indeed victims of hate. I don't see how it is possible to deny that.

As for claiming that, I don't see how you can draw conclusions about the nature of perversion if we have no easily identifiable "causative factors." We have found, however, instances in nature suggesting that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon. There have been many recorded homosexual animal couples. This lends itself to the theory (Keeping in mind that a theory has not been proven) that genetics plays a large roll in sexuality.
The point I'm trying to make is that can you really be sure that Homosexuality is the fault of some circumstance or choice?

If we cannot prove homosexuality as something that is avoidable, why should people be punished for being so? Our judicial system is arranged in a way that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty. I don't think we should limit the rights of homosexuals when it comes to civil unions, unless we can definitively prove that homosexuality is the fault of the individual, not genetics or circumstance.


@MatthewT:
Granted the way of life defined in the bible places much more emphasis on living a holistically healthy and pure life than the constitution, but to use one blanket religion for our nation would be violating the rights of millions of American citizens such as myself, who do not share your belief in Jesus Christ.

Those are some of my thoughts. Thank you for responding!
-Zalen

For the most part I agree with Groundhog, whether I think it's right or wrong I say live and let live, we aren't meant to judge, condemn or restrict other people's freedom, as long as it doesn't impinge on my life I have no major problem with it, from a christian viewpoint it's between them and God, not me, them and God.

As to whether someone can be cured, I saw a documentary on television last year called 'Make Me A Christian' where three dedicated Christians worked with a group of people who did not believe but were open to the possibilty. Among them was a lesbian and in order to try show her the lifestyle was wrong they had her meet a man who is now a practisiing christian who was gay for many years, now married with children.

He told his story of how he came to understand that it was wrong and how he realised it wasn't a real feeling but all due to other issues he had, it was very interesting but I can't imagine the gay people I have known would agree with what he said.

I apologize for posting a word that was in need of being edited. I was not aware that the D-word was a curse word when used in a practical religious discussion. I was under the impression that it was almost a technical term.

I thought I would add. Being homosexual is not the sin. Acting opon it is. There are many things in our lives as christians that we must deny, or not act opon because it is wrong in the eyes of God. I believe the persecution of any person is wrong. Unless dictated by God. It is not easy to reject something in one's life because of Gods law. But to do so is to know grace beyond mesure. A relative of mine is gay. He has been attacked both in word and physically. Hospitalized more than once. He knows what I believe in Jesus. He also knows that I love him no less because of it. He knows I will never say what he does is OK or will I ever condone. He understands that it is because of my love for him that I cannot. He has to face himself and make the choices that he can live with. I pray every day that he will return to the faith he once had.
The one thing that frustrates me in the debate over this issue is the attitude that just because I believe this is wrong that it means I hate or discriminate. If anything I feel tremendous compassion for those that face these choices. Mostly because I know that those that rebuke Jesus do not know or understand the love that is their's in Jesus. All that know and love Jesus have had to deny their very selves to accept Jesus. This is the message of every christian when they say it is wrong in the eyes of God. Wether it is of the same sex or the opposite sex because you know that to act apon that love is wrong. The streangth to do so though, is there for all who choose to follow Jesus. God bless, pickles

What do you think about gay marriage?
I don't think gay marriage is wrong. I know both gay marriage and the gay life style
are wrong. This is God's Law. What I think if it is different doesn't matter.


What do you think about civil unions between homosexuals that carries all the perks of marriage, except for the word "Married"
Under no circumstances should same sex marriage be allowed. It is an abomination
to God.



What do you think about homosexuality? Is it a choice? Are homosexuals ****ed? Can someone be "cured" of homosexuality?
It is due to living in a fallen, sinful world. I do believe God can change/cure anyone
that ask Him. Jesus said that we can ask anything in His name to do God's will and it
will be granted. Since being gay is wrong in God's eyes, asking to be cured is
something God should approve of. But if not, it just means He has other plans.


Does anyone think that the defense of marriage act is constitutional? Please keep in mind the "full faith and credit" clause of the constitution.
Should government have any control over marriage? As of right now it is left to the states. This is where "full faith and credit" applies.
These two fall under the same answer. The Defense of Marriage Act may not be
constitutional but it is right under God's constitution. Using laws of the land to
make acts God deems immoral will not make it acceptable to God.
God has no need for the constitution since His constitution was in place thousands
of years before the U.S. constitution. The U.S. may be a democracy but God is not.
We are commanded to follow the law of the land as long as it does not violate
God's Law. Once it does, we are commanded to ignore the law of the land and
follow God's Law.
But I do have a response to the "full faith and credit clause". God commands us to
have "full faith" in Him and give Him "credit" for everything. As you can see, God
would not approve of the U.S. constitution or a "full faith and credit clause".
God also included His own "full faith and credit clause" thousands of years before
the U.S. thought of it.

It does draw us into unwarranted attacks from those not liking what God says. But since they too
are frustrated by what you or we say, they take it out on us since they can't take it out on God.
You are right. Being gay is not a sin. Acting on and living a gay life style is the sin. Just as a
person that feels the need to have sex is not to act on that need outside of marriage.

It seems some gays and lesbians think if they get the government to approve their marriage
that makes it ok with God and God has to accept it. The same sex marriage law violates God's
Law and He will never accept it or them or their marriage. God respects no marriage except
the one He ordained between a man and a woman.

I can't understand why gays and lesbians living the life style want to go to heaven or think God
would allow them to?
God already said He hates the way they live. Most people who have someone they hate can't
imagine spending one minute with that person. Why would God allow those that met none of
His requirements to get into heaven and whose sins He hates to spend all eternity with Him?
Why do gays and lesbians want to go to heaven to spend all eternity with a God that they
ignored His guidelines, concepts and precepts to live their life by? God said, "If you love me,
keep my commandments". Its obvious gays and lesbians living that life style are not obeying
God's Laws and under God's Law do not love Him. Why do they want to spend eternity with
a God they had no time for on earth and will tell Him He is wrong as soon as they see Him
in heaven? (hint: God is never wrong)

It seems Americans think that because we live in a democracy that God has to hear them out.
Sort of like giving them their date in court. God has already spoken. There is nothing to debate.
Do it His Way or else.

You have until your heart stops beating to decide. Once your heart stops beating, your decision
at that time stands for all eternity. Make it a good one!

Homesexuality is a sin- end of story.
I feel the bible is quite clear about this. I was discussing this with an unbeliving friend in school a couple of weeks back and she said I was 'not accepting life' if i didnt think Gay relationships were right.
Now, i dont know about everyone on this forum but to me- life is brought when a man and woman come toghter. This may lead to start of a new life.
We have Adam and Eve as an example of what God wanted for us. Not Adam and Steve.
Anyway, the man that converted my dad, and mum, which lead to the conversion of my 5 brothers and I, has a homesexual son. The man is not pleased with his sons way of life,but to me, Homosexuality is not a desies - it is not infectious - u can not catch it but i do belive some people just swing that way. I think 'civial partnerships' are wrong its just the government trying to get votes by enforceing the right for Gay people to be allowed to 'Marry'
Not to mention the amount of STD's that gay people get, in comparison to most straight people.
Zelan, you are rgiht it has all the perks of being in a Marriage - i mean they call eachother Husbans and they call there girlfriends Wives.
I think though Zelan one question you should add to your list is "what do you think of homosexual adoption"
Ill just say my part in that. -
If my parents were to be struck down dead - they are in early 50's. I would not legally be handed over to my next of Kin, my oldest brother who is turning 25 this October. But i would be put up for adoption before my brothers couls say the boo. My brother would have to fight for the custoday of me and my twin and perhaps a 17 year old brother.
It pains me to think that I would be adopted by homoseuals , when i would probably feel like i should be living with my brother ( 5 of them ) in my mum and dads family home, here in Scotland. Anywayz...
God Bless
Kath

Your comments are against God if you are a Christian. God commands us as Christians and as
brothers and sisters in Christ to always look out for each other. The Bible is clear that it is our
responsibility to help our brothers and sisters to stay on the straight and narrow and they are
to do the same for us.

As a Christian, live and let live is not an option. As a Christian, you are to uphold God's Laws.
Live and let live is an ungodly principle adopted by mankind to give them an excuse not to
follow God's Law.

Many think what Christians say is passing judgment. Christians are telling you what God
said is right and wrong. If you feel judged, its because you are violating God's Laws. Not
because of what a Christian said. God's Word is designed to show you the error of your
ways. You are not required to listen or correct your ways. God lets any person live their
life without Him. And once you die, He honors your request. You will spend all eternity
without Him.

Most people think eternity is a joke. If they didn't, they wouldn't look at their spiritual life
as being so unimportant. Your physical body has a limited life span. Your spiritual being
will live for eternity. The question is - where?

Amen to that

In most places there is one thing you can do or look into doing.
Have your parents put in their will that your brother will be guardian in the event of their passing
if he is able. If not, they can still direct that if you are adopted, it can not be by individuals
connected directly or indirectly to a homosexual life style.

Hello Zalen, My apologies for the late responses. It's been a difficult week. I will try to address some of the areas you asked me to expound upon. I hope you have a few minutes.


Quote from my statement
This endorsement , whether progressing at a federal or state level would only represent a crack in the dam, which at present might only trickle, but would soon give way to additional legislation affecting our educational and religious systems, not to mention, a further redefining of the family unit as we know it.

If this concerted effort made by supporters of same sex unions was to succeed on a large scale, (and it will), a series of logical steps will eventually be taken, to further the homosexual/lesbian agenda.
1. Legislation would soon be passed amending the D.O.M. Act of 1996 to include members of the same sex as
recognized marriages. This would be done on a premise of equality.

2. Pastors would eventually be forced, by law, to join homosexual couples in marriage under the threat of violating
discriminatory laws.

3. Speaking, in any way, against same sex unions, (eventually marriages), will be declared hate speech, especially in
places of employment, religious institutions.

4. Stiff penalties will be placed on Clergymen who expound upon homosexuality as sin, before their congregations.

Quote

The nature of every perversion is rooted in experiences which have influenced or affected the mental/spiritual state in a manner so as to produce deviant behavior on one or several levels. Simply because the causative factors are not always easily identifiable, does not mean they are not present...

Homosexuality was categorized as a mental disorder until the early 1970’s when it was declassified as such. The reason for the declassification was not the result of additional medical information being presented, but, more than likely, due to a shifting in public opinion regarding the subject.

Medical science was not the first to classify homosexuality as deviant behavior. A considerably higher source was credited with that finding, God. Leviticus 18:22 & Romans chpt.1: 26

If you would suffer me to share a few more points you may not have known, about perversions associated with male homosexuality, I think you may find them interesting:

Child molestation and pedophilia occur far more commonly among homosexuals than among heterosexuals on a per capita basis, according to a new study.

Overwhelming evidence supports the belief that homosexuality is a sexual deviancy often accompanied by disorders that have dire consequences for our culture," wrote Steve Baldwin in, "Child Molestation and the Homosexual Movement," soon to be published by the Regent University Law Review.


Baldwin is the executive director of the Council for National Policy in Washington, D.C.


It is difficult to convey the dark side of the homosexual culture without appearing harsh," wrote Baldwin. "However, it is time to acknowledge that homosexual behavior threatens the foundation of Western civilization – the nuclear family."


Baldwin – who chaired the California Assembly's Education committee, where he fought against support for the homosexual agenda in the state's public schools – says in his report that homosexual activists' "efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure and to enlarge the homosexual movement" constitute an "unmistakable" attack on "the family unit."


Baldwin's research is substantiated in a recently completed body of work written by Dr. Judith Reisman, president of the Institute for Media Education and author of numerous authoritative books.


In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. …" The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality … we must do it for the children's sake."

If you check my profile you'll see that my spiritual status is listed as 'unsure', that's why my views on this aren't as strict as yours.

But whatever the difference in our opinions my views are not against God, I have tried to help people I have known who are gay, I have made it clear to them in a civil discussion what my views are and what I feel about their lifestyle, we have discussed it at length but when all is said and done it is their choice and beyond talking and explaining I have to let them live and make their choice, any more action on my part is essentially an attack on their freedom and choice, they have all the information so if they choose to do it then I have no right to take action to stop them no matter my feelings, I still care about them and give my friendship and support, that is not agaisnt God.

The idea of 'live and let live' can be used just as readily to uphold God's law as to undermine it, it depends how a person adopts that idea in their own life and in their actions towards others, I don't view it as a declaration on non-interferance, it is not clearly a good thing or a bad thing, only the actions that result are, and you can never know what those actions are.

It's a sin.... but so is lying, thinking evil of others, lusting, being envious..... and who can say they go a whole week without any of those feelings?

@songster:
I think it is ridiculous to think that a gay lifestyle leads to more sexual predation. I have provided a link to another universtiy website concerning pedophiles and homosexuality that refutes your claims: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html

I believe that this is the best short (yet still very limited) summary of the information given:
For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.
Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation.

The point is that sex offenders are not homosexuals, but people with severe mental and sexual disorders. Homosexuality however does not manifest itself in the form of pedophilia.

The constitution states that no law shall be made in regard to religion (paraphrased) The government cannot force pastors to marry anyone.
There will still be no effect upon education if gays are allowed to marry.
The constitution has been interpreted to have very strict rules when it comes to preservation of speech. If I wished to, I could legally make speeches against firefighters and police. Neo-nazi organizations and the Westboro Baptist church are both protected under first amendment rights, and I think we can agree that they are both much much much worse than any anti-gay group. (I am not trying to compare anti-gay groups to these groups). The point is the freedom of speech to question gay marriages will still be preserved.

As for the 1995 statement made in guide, although shocking, it meant to say that children should be allowed to discover their own sexuality in a safe environment, not have sex. Perhaps it is an idealized and biased argument, but it does not have any intention for advocating sexual relationships with and amongst children.

Civil unions:
I don't know what everyone's personal definition of a civil union is, but I define it to be: A secular and legally recognized relationship between two consenting partners that affords the same benefits (hospital visits, tax breaks, the power to make medical decisions for etc.) as a married couple. This couple would not however be recognized by any organization as married, but it still carries the same legal weight.

@Kathleen:
I think that homosexual households are perfectly capable of raising children. There are many heterosexual families that would never pass the necessary tests to adopt a child, and yet they are capable and legally able to have children. These families wind up being dysfunctional. It has been shown in many examples however, that homosexual families have done just fine raising children.

@concernedguy:
Many if not most (I have no actual statistics here) homosexuals are not religious. It should not be surprising then to learn that they do not consider their lifestyles morally alright. I hope that clarifies things for you. ("I can't understand why gays and lesbians living the life style want to go to heaven or think Godwould allow them to?")
I would still like to hear what you think about my redefined version of civil unions.

@Zalen
So u think homosexual households are capable of running children. Do you seriously belive that innocent children should be raised in ahousehold full of sin?

@Concernedguy
I know this can be done, thank you. It was a statment rather than me looking for ways for me not to be adopted by gay people Also that soloution may not be possible as my parents may not consent to changing there will - thanks anywyaz