Should we ban Capital Punishment?

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J

jennymae

Guest
#1
I'm sure this has been debated over and over again, but nevertheless, I'd like to bring it back to the surface again, so to speak. This country is the only western democracy practicing capital punishment.

Some may deserve the capital punishment, there are felonies so cruel that the capital punishment is correct.

But, in my opinion, what if we are mistaking? What if an innocent person is convicted and sentenced to death? Can we live with that? Should we ban the cpital punishment?

Another question:

In Alabama, the trial judge can override the jury verdicts of life and impose death sentences. That means one person can decide life or death. What do yall think of such a capital sentencing procedure?
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#2
As most people in here who know me knows, I am against capital punishment. I don't believe in an eye for an eye.
I am of course not saying that dangerous people should walk free, but killing them is wrong in my opinion
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#3
I'm sure this has been debated over and over again, but nevertheless, I'd like to bring it back to the surface again, so to speak. This country is the only western democracy practicing capital punishment.

Some may deserve the capital punishment, there are felonies so cruel that the capital punishment is correct.

But, in my opinion, what if we are mistaking? What if an innocent person is convicted and sentenced to death? Can we live with that? Should we ban the cpital punishment?

Another question:

In Alabama, the trial judge can override the jury verdicts of life and impose death sentences. That means one person can decide life or death. What do yall think of such a capital sentencing procedure?
The capital punishment system in the USA is extremely corrupt & bias and should be overhauled.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#4
In Alabama, the trial judge can override the jury verdicts of life and impose death sentences. That means one person can decide life or death. What do yall think of such a capital sentencing procedure?

Likely to be overturned by federal statue on appeal, especially if race is involved.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#5
I do believe there should be consequences for wrongs in society,thats what keeps a society with some semblance of order,but I don't know,like you said...What if someone is innocent and wrongly convicted.Thats a good question.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#6
Well, as Sister Jenny and I are both in Alabama.......let me say that, Yes the Judge can impose the Death Penalty, but there are certain Judicial Standards that must be in play and met prior to their doing so. And, to date, if memory does not fail me, no decision by a Judge to impose the Death Penalty has been overturned on appeal.

I would also like to point out that to date, there isn't a single instance where a prisoner was put to death only later for it to be revealed that they were innocent. NOW, there have been several instances where last minute Stays of Execution signed by the Governor have actually given the Defense Team an opportunity to present new evidence which proved a persons innocence, and that person was saved from execution, and eventually released from prison.

The Death Penalty as part of a States or Nations Judicial Punishment Program is certainly not without debate, and certainly not without controversy. There are many ways to approach this debate/discussion.

1) Constitutionally, it must meet the standard of NOT BEING "cruel" AND "unusual." Meaning the process in which a prisoner is put to death must not inflict grievous pain and suffering AND not be a process new and untested. The majority of States, and the Federal Government meet this standard through Lethal Injections. However, as in a recent case, these CAN and sometimes DO fail, opening the door to debating them from a Constitutional stand point. In my opinion, the Electric Chair is not an acceptable form, as I believe it is certainly "cruel" but not considered "unusual," thus I believe some States still use this method. There are actually many types of gasses that would cause death without pain and suffering, but they fail the standard of "unusual" because they are not used. If the majority of States were to use such gasses, then that standard could be satisfied, and the pain and suffering would be removed from the act as well.

2) Biblically, the Death Penalty does not go against Scripture in my opinion. In the New Testament alone there is a specific instance where a man and his wife were "put to death" for lying to God, and the Holy Spirit Himself was the Executioner. As well, there is the instance where the Apostle Paul said "such a one as this" should be put to death......."destroy the flesh to save the spirit." Now, we don't know for sure that this person was put to death, but Paul certainly upholds the idea that the Death Penalty is Biblical.

3) Politically, well. we all know the Political debates around this issue, and I don't really want to dive into that quagmire too deep. Even the "shallow end" of that pool leaves one feeling the need for a very hot and long shower! My only comment is that I am convinced that due to Political ideologies and pressure, the Death Penalty AS A PUNISHMENT, has been so corrupted as to be no longer effective as a DETERANT in our Judicial System. Endless Appeals, and Stays, and loopholes that must be closed before an execution can be carried out have made this form of punishment more of a circus than an effective form of Judicial punishment. This is my opinion only!

4) Morally, While I support the Death Penalty as being ONE OPTION available to our Judicial System, I must HONESTLY state that I do NOT KNOW if I could vote "Yea" in a specific case were I a member of the Jury. This is based on my personal emotions and conscious and NOT if the punishment is Legal, Biblical, or Constitutional. There are crimes that are so very heinous, that little else but Death seems to serve as Justice for both the "victim(s)," "families," and the "public" as a whole. And it's this reason I support the Death Penalty.

Anyway, these are my thoughts, and while they won't sway the issue either way, I offer them as FYI fully knowing that my thoughts alone will not end the debate/discussion.
 
Mar 22, 2013
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Indiana
#7
Yep need more of it, sadly because of the crybaby liberals we don't execute enough criminals. just think right now if some thug in Indiana would have been put to death long ago a IMPD officer would still be alive today. think of all the young boy and girls that would have been saved from being raped had the molester been executed after the 1st time he committed the crime, instead of the slap the hand and back out and at it again. think of all the people that would still be alive today if these violent criminals would have been put to death the 1st time they committed violent crime instead of this catch and release crap they do today.

Quite frank I am sick of criminals. put them to death today save someones life in the future and save US the taxpayers money as well.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#8
Yep need more of it, sadly because of the crybaby liberals we don't execute enough criminals. just think right now if some thug in Indiana would have been put to death long ago a IMPD officer would still be alive today. think of all the young boy and girls that would have been saved from being raped had the molester been executed after the 1st time he committed the crime, instead of the slap the hand and back out and at it again. think of all the people that would still be alive today if these violent criminals would have been put to death the 1st time they committed violent crime instead of this catch and release crap they do today.

Quite frank I am sick of criminals. put them to death today save someones life in the future and save US the taxpayers money as well.
LOL!

I surely hope you're not a(n) (earthly) judge, as I would hate to stand before you for anything, not even a speeding ticket for fear of being put to death, by some kind of "humane" method!

I am against capital punishment (for various reasons), indeed I think it is barbaric, especially what is practised in the US! :p
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#9
The new testament covenant delivered to us by our Lord Jesus Christ is against capital punishment. It is hard to see how some Christians can be OK with this.

Our Lord tells us to love, forgive, not judge, and were even called to minister to those in prison.

Nowhere does the death penalty fit into love and forgiveness.
 

JimJimmers

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2012
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#10
The new testament covenant delivered to us by our Lord Jesus Christ is against capital punishment. It is hard to see how some Christians can be OK with this.

Our Lord tells us to love, forgive, not judge, and were even called to minister to those in prison.

Nowhere does the death penalty fit into love and forgiveness.

Are you against imprisonment also? I don't see how that fits into love and forgiveness.
 

SparkleEyes

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2013
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#11
In Alabama, the trial judge can override the jury verdicts of life and impose death sentences. That means one person can decide life or death. What do yall think of such a capital sentencing procedure?

Likely to be overturned by federal statue on appeal, especially if race is involved.
I wanted to "like" your comment, but I wanted to be clear that I like it because I agree with your sentiment, not that it is good that ONE person can decide life or death.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#12
No I am not against imprisonment. The person still gets to keep their life, and they are given a chance to be ministered to and have a change of heart in accepting what they did as wrong and repenting of it.

There are situations where I do believe that kept in prison for life and never released apply, but they should still be let to live.
I know some out there than throw all the human principles into it about not being fair because we have to pay taxes to house and feed them, but that is a flaw in the system that needs corrected.

They could easily be given a minimum wage for the work they do in prison ( for they do have jobs available ), and therefor have that wage taken for their housing, feeding, and grooming costs. That would take the burden off of tax payers.

Murder is murder, no matter how you slice it. And they are already serving the punishment for being in prison, adding to it by death penalty is double punishment which is wrong.

" Do not repay evil with evil. "

And just for notable reference: Not all people who are in prison are the evil, monsters they are put out to be.

Some are one time offenders ( even though society/media lead people to think other wise ), others have been falsely accused ( once again society says no, even though you see almost one or two instances a year of some one who was found guilty now being found innocent do to new evidence ), And some even though they may have repeated offenses such as drug/alcohol usage, theft, or others like fraud are not deserving of death.

People hear the word felon and they automatically think they are so bad they should be put to death. Keeping true murders, and child molesters in prison for life would protect other people from being murdered or molested by them.

There is punishments that are rightfully deserved, but death if can be avoided is not one of them.

Are you against imprisonment also? I don't see how that fits into love and forgiveness.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#13
Yep need more of it, sadly because of the crybaby liberals we don't execute enough criminals. just think right now if some thug in Indiana would have been put to death long ago a IMPD officer would still be alive today. think of all the young boy and girls that would have been saved from being raped had the molester been executed after the 1st time he committed the crime, instead of the slap the hand and back out and at it again. think of all the people that would still be alive today if these violent criminals would have been put to death the 1st time they committed violent crime instead of this catch and release crap they do today.

Quite frank I am sick of criminals. put them to death today save someones life in the future and save US the taxpayers money as well.
OK so you want to keep the death penalty because your sick of criminals...put that on a placard and protest lol

I'm neither for or against it, leaning heavily towards against death penalty. As I have no opinion myself, I would like to hear opinions from people as to why it should be kept, except being sick of criminals lol
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#14
QUOTE: The new testament covenant delivered to us by our Lord Jesus Christ is against capital punishment. It is hard to see how some Christians can be OK with this.

Our Lord tells us to love, forgive, not judge, and were even called to minister to those in prison.

Nowhere does the death penalty fit into love and forgiveness. END QUOTATION.............

Brother Kenneth, this is simply not true............sorry, but I have to point that out. YES, the New Covenant is GRACE, and surely LOVE and FORGIVENESS is GRACE.......however, if we accept your premise, then we must BELIEVE that God/Jesus DID AWAY with personal responsibility for sinful living under the New Covenant............and that is not true. Those who deny God, who deny Christ STILL face eternal damnation............the second death for their disobedient lives.

As well, you MUST be aware that the death penalty was carried out on at least TWO occasions in Scripture (NT), and possibly three..........so it is certainly Biblical.............as the Word of God is fairly clear on this.

A difficult choice? Yes...........but it does not conflict with NT Scripture concerning Grace/Love or Forgiveness. Paul said to destroy the flesh to save the soul.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#15
Bro Breno said: I'm neither for or against it, leaning heavily towards against death penalty. As I have no opinion myself, I would like to hear opinions from people as to why it should be kept, except being sick of criminals lol


This is a more difficult thing to determine. Should we KEEP the death penalty as part of the current Judicial options concerning proper punishment for crimes committed.

However, to properly discuss/determine this would require a review of our entire Judicial System and the Punishments meted for criminal behavior. The original intent for "punishment" being meted out was two fold: 1) Punishment for crime(s) committed........2) deterrent to prevent others from committing such crimes.

I lean towards both of these having failed. Rather than punishment, the system now focuses on rehabilitation. Problem is, that has been a gross failure. And, given that the average person in prison in the US today has a higher standard of living than the average person living under the Poverty Level in the US............it doesn't quite seem like punishment anymore in my opinion. And it certainly isn't acting as a deterrent!

I am speaking of the entire System here, not just the death penalty.

If pressed for an answer, I would have to say YES simply because once we begin to take away options of punishment or judgment from the Judicial System, where does it end? No more "Life sentences?" At what level of punishment do we determine that it is acceptable or unacceptable to us?


I fully understand BOTH sides or even ALL sides of this discussion, and recognize that it is a quagmire for sure.

Anyway, just my thoughts........God bless
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#16
Yes, but that was for our Lord to make that decision, not ours. We are to love, and forgive our enemies.
Putting them in prison for life is a just penalty/punishment for certain felons, but putting them to death via capital punishment/death penalty is not for us to make that decision.

Paul did say that, but that was not concerning the death penalty. That was referring to eliminate things that cause you to stumble in the flesh so that you do not get lost and lose salvation that is offered to all men. If you destroy some one by death penalty before they have the chance to be ministered to, and accept what they did as wrong and repent of it. Their soul will still be lost as they will be cast into the lake of fire as well.

The commandment, " Thou shall not kill " ( murder ) does not say, thou shall not kill unless they do this or that.
QUOTE: The new testament covenant delivered to us by our Lord Jesus Christ is against capital punishment. It is hard to see how some Christians can be OK with this.

Our Lord tells us to love, forgive, not judge, and were even called to minister to those in prison.

Nowhere does the death penalty fit into love and forgiveness. END QUOTATION.............

Brother Kenneth, this is simply not true............sorry, but I have to point that out. YES, the New Covenant is GRACE, and surely LOVE and FORGIVENESS is GRACE.......however, if we accept your premise, then we must BELIEVE that God/Jesus DID AWAY with personal responsibility for sinful living under the New Covenant............and that is not true. Those who deny God, who deny Christ STILL face eternal damnation............the second death for their disobedient lives.

As well, you MUST be aware that the death penalty was carried out on at least TWO occasions in Scripture (NT), and possibly three..........so it is certainly Biblical.............as the Word of God is fairly clear on this.

A difficult choice? Yes...........but it does not conflict with NT Scripture concerning Grace/Love or Forgiveness. Paul said to destroy the flesh to save the soul.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#17
I totally belong to the Lord and I am guided by what the Lord says and not by my flesh. The Lord points out that in an ideal society we get rid of those people who have killed others. It is to be done only when someone has seen them do it, and if anyone lies about seeing this so it causes a wrongful death, then that person who lied is a murderer.

God is love, it is the loving thing to do. When a person who is a danger and threat to our brothers and sisters in Christ, we are to care for and protect them.

I do not think that God cancelled His covenant, a legal document that even humans cannot cancel, when God gave us a new improved one. Under the old covenant, when people loved the Lord enough to follow Him, a world of safety and justice was created in an otherwise cruel world where even babies were killed to satisfy Idols. People who kill threaten the world. To protect them is not loving.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#18
QUOTED:

I totally belong to the Lord and I am guided by what the Lord says and not by my flesh. The Lord points out that in an ideal society we get rid of those people who have killed others. It is to be done only when someone has seen them do it, and if anyone lies about seeing this so it causes a wrongful death, then that person who lied is a murderer.

END QUOTATION

So, Peter, and Paul, and the Holy Spirit need to be done away with right?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#19
Bro. Kenneth, we surely read Scripture differently........

1st Corinthians 5:1) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 .) And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 .) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 .) In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 .) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

sure sounds like death penalty to me, and not just a stumbling block...........

We will have to agree to disagree on this one Brother...........

 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#20
Covenants were never destroyed, but changes were made from one covenant to the next. And if you read the old testament there was multiple covenants that were made, and each time changes were done. Now a new covenant I give you is what our Lord said, and He told us to love and care for even our enemies.

When some one is killed in self defense is a big difference, than some one who is imprisoned and then killed by the death penalty ( there is no self defense in this action ). If imprisoned for life, others would be protected from their harm.

Once again killing/murdering some one when there is no need is wrong no matter how you try to justify it.

All of you that believe in the death penalty need to repent and ask for forgiveness of your unforgiving, non-caring, non-loving hearts.

I totally belong to the Lord and I am guided by what the Lord says and not by my flesh. The Lord points out that in an ideal society we get rid of those people who have killed others. It is to be done only when someone has seen them do it, and if anyone lies about seeing this so it causes a wrongful death, then that person who lied is a murderer.

God is love, it is the loving thing to do. When a person who is a danger and threat to our brothers and sisters in Christ, we are to care for and protect them.

I do not think that God cancelled His covenant, a legal document that even humans cannot cancel, when God gave us a new improved one. Under the old covenant, when people loved the Lord enough to follow Him, a world of safety and justice was created in an otherwise cruel world where even babies were killed to satisfy Idols. People who kill threaten the world. To protect them is not loving.