Does God exist? An Athiest defending his belief

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Apr 30, 2016
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She was making a joke from a typo in Demi's post. Chill Fran. You're attacking people. You dont have to do that to get a point across. Besides that you jumped the gun. B1 was joking.
B1 and I know each other.
I know he was joking
and he knows I know he was joking.

How am I attacking anyone?
I asked a question to which there was no reply.
I said to forget about it since THERE IS NO REPLY.

Would you care to start all over again?

If so, explain to me WHERE EVIL COMES FROM.

You know, like from the BEGINNING - you have to go back to the beginning.
It's not about choice.
It's not about free will.

Evil is a real thing. It's not the absence of God. How could that even be? WHEN is God ever absent?

So if you give a reply, and I don't accept it - it ends by you saying that I didn't accept your reply and that's it?

You're not going to show me how you're right? You don't care? What are we here for - to drop out?
And, maybe I don't accept your reply BECAUSE IT'S NOT CORRECT.

I hope you don't do this in Apologetics and Theology.
I gave you an out and was willing to drop this.
And YOU call that attacking people.

You know one of my favorite verses?
John 13:35

We should practice that.
I was nice to you and you should reciprocate.

Fran
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Evil is the absence of God, according to a theory you made up by applying a line of thinking that can be proven by science, to spiritual matters. Problem with the whole martyr mindset of 'Jesus only had a few followers, so that's proof of everyone disagrees with me, I'm right' is that there are 1000's of others who contradict you and say the same thing.
So rather than falsely apply scientific ideas to the spiritual, or think being rejected is evidence you're right, I'll just use the bible.

James 1:13 - '... for God cannot be tempted with evil, and He Himself tempts no one'.

You cant define evil as an absence of God, that's not biblical. Hell is an absence of God. Evil occurs as a result of people who reject following Gods ways, but that doesn't mean He is absent. To follow your believed, every time evil is performed God simply ceases to exist in that space, or all together. That puts the power to banish God temporarily in the hands of sinners, making them, in a manner of speaking, more powerful than God.
AMEN Ugly.
You're 100% right.

There can be no evil in God. God does not cause "calamity". Everything at the time that was written was attributed to God - it's as easy as that.

Also, yes, God can NEVER BE ABSENT.

Fran
 

Ella85

Senior Member
May 9, 2014
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Evil is NOT the absence of God.
God is everywhere, if He was not we would be screwed!
He is the only one holding things together otherwise Satan would have destroyed us many times over already!

Thank God He is with us..until the end of days! And always!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
B1 and I know each other.
I know he was joking
and he knows I know he was joking.

How am I attacking anyone?
I asked a question to which there was no reply.
I said to forget about it since THERE IS NO REPLY.

Would you care to start all over again?

If so, explain to me WHERE EVIL COMES FROM.

You know, like from the BEGINNING - you have to go back to the beginning.
It's not about choice.
It's not about free will.

Evil is a real thing. It's not the absence of God. How could that even be? WHEN is God ever absent?

So if you give a reply, and I don't accept it - it ends by you saying that I didn't accept your reply and that's it?

You're not going to show me how you're right? You don't care? What are we here for - to drop out?
And, maybe I don't accept your reply BECAUSE IT'S NOT CORRECT.

I hope you don't do this in Apologetics and Theology.
I gave you an out and was willing to drop this.
And YOU call that attacking people.

You know one of my favorite verses?
John 13:35

We should practice that.
I was nice to you and you should reciprocate.

Fran



Quote "B1 and I know each other.I know he was joking and he knows I know he was joking.How am I attacking anyone?


It wasn't apparent that you knew he was joking. I read it as sarcasm. Rather hard to read intent online. If I misunder-stood,fine.


Quote "I asked a question to which there was no reply.I said to forget about it since THERE IS NO REPLY"

But there were replies! People answered you. You may not agree with the answer but people did in fact answer.

Quote"Would you care to start all over again? If so, explain to me WHERE EVIL COMES FROM."

We dont need to start again. I said evil is the opposite of good,good has to have an opposite. So God has allowed evil to exist for a time. To give humans choice free will there has to be an opposite of good. God has allowed free choice and therefore evil exists.


Quote "It's not about choice.It's not about free will."

Thats your opinion,it may not necessarily be fact.


Quote "Evil is a real thing. It's not the absence of God. How could that even be? WHEN is God ever absent?"

I didn't say it was the absence of God.

Quote "You're not going to show me how you're right? You don't care? What are we here for - to drop out?"

If you have a better explanation then put it forward. From what I can ascertain from the Bible I have given the right answer. And Ive been here a while and haven't "dropped out" so far.


Quote "And, maybe I don't accept your reply BECAUSE IT'S NOT CORRECT."

Thats your opinion, doesn't mean its right.

Quote "I hope you don't do this in Apologetics and Theology. I gave you an out and was willing to drop this."

You gave me an out?! You can stop responding anytime you want. But I'll drop it when I feel I have finished the subject,not when you say "drop it".

Quote "I was nice to you and you should reciprocate."

I didn't consider it being nice.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Quote "B1 and I know each other.I know he was joking and he knows I know he was joking.How am I attacking anyone?


It wasn't apparent that you knew he was joking. I read it as sarcasm. Rather hard to read intent online. If I misunder-stood,fine.


Quote "I asked a question to which there was no reply.I said to forget about it since THERE IS NO REPLY"

But there were replies! People answered you. You may not agree with the answer but people did in fact answer.

Quote"Would you care to start all over again? If so, explain to me WHERE EVIL COMES FROM."

We dont need to start again. I said evil is the opposite of good,good has to have an opposite. So God has allowed evil to exist for a time. To give humans choice free will there has to be an opposite of good. God has allowed free choice and therefore evil exists.


Quote "It's not about choice.It's not about free will."

Thats your opinion,it may not necessarily be fact.


Quote "Evil is a real thing. It's not the absence of God. How could that even be? WHEN is God ever absent?"

I didn't say it was the absence of God.

Quote "You're not going to show me how you're right? You don't care? What are we here for - to drop out?"

If you have a better explanation then put it forward. From what I can ascertain from the Bible I have given the right answer. And Ive been here a while and haven't "dropped out" so far.


Quote "And, maybe I don't accept your reply BECAUSE IT'S NOT CORRECT."

Thats your opinion, doesn't mean its right.

Quote "I hope you don't do this in Apologetics and Theology. I gave you an out and was willing to drop this."

You gave me an out?! You can stop responding anytime you want. But I'll drop it when I feel I have finished the subject,not when you say "drop it".

Quote "I was nice to you and you should reciprocate."

I didn't consider it being nice.
Kaylagrl
We're going to leave here being friends because there's a lot of misunderstanding going on here and I hate to leave it at that.

Yes. The written word is a bit dangerous.

Here's why I think you're not correct in your replies.

I apologize if it wasn't YOU who said that evil is the absence of God.

I didn't mean that there was NO REPLY as you took it. I meant that THERE IS NO ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.

I certainly DO NOT have an explanation. My point from the beginning is that THERE IS NO explanation. If we go back far enough, we find that there is no explanation for evil. There's no understanding it. We don't know WHY it exists or HOW it could possibly have come about. I'll only go as far back as a person is willing to go since I'm not here to cause anyone to question their belief system - so I stop when the person stops.

I said that evil is not about free-will or about choice. You have the free will to choose evil, but that's not where it comes from.

You say:
I said evil is the opposite of good,good has to have an opposite. So God has allowed evil to exist for a time. To give humans choice free will there has to be an opposite of good. God has allowed free choice and therefore evil exists.

Why does good have to have an opposite? God is all good. Did He WANT us to experience evil? Did He create it for this express purpose? You say He has allowed evil to exist. Again, where did evil come from? Why did He give us choice?
You're saying it's our CHOICE that creates evil? Or that it exists so that we may have choice? What kind of a God would that be? Do you have a pet? Do you throw him out into the rain so he could have a choice to come back into your warm home?

See Kaylagrl, I'm not arguing with you. I'm trying to make you see how complicated it is. I'm trying to make you see that there is NO ANSWER to the question of evil.

NO ANSWER.

Fran
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Kaylagrl
We're going to leave here being friends because there's a lot of misunderstanding going on here and I hate to leave it at that.

Yes. The written word is a bit dangerous.

Here's why I think you're not correct in your replies.

I apologize if it wasn't YOU who said that evil is the absence of God.

I didn't mean that there was NO REPLY as you took it. I meant that THERE IS NO ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.

I certainly DO NOT have an explanation. My point from the beginning is that THERE IS NO explanation. If we go back far enough, we find that there is no explanation for evil. There's no understanding it. We don't know WHY it exists or HOW it could possibly have come about. I'll only go as far back as a person is willing to go since I'm not here to cause anyone to question their belief system - so I stop when the person stops.

I said that evil is not about free-will or about choice. You have the free will to choose evil, but that's not where it comes from.

You say:
I said evil is the opposite of good,good has to have an opposite. So God has allowed evil to exist for a time. To give humans choice free will there has to be an opposite of good. God has allowed free choice and therefore evil exists.

Why does good have to have an opposite? God is all good. Did He WANT us to experience evil? Did He create it for this express purpose? You say He has allowed evil to exist. Again, where did evil come from? Why did He give us choice?
You're saying it's our CHOICE that creates evil? Or that it exists so that we may have choice? What kind of a God would that be? Do you have a pet? Do you throw him out into the rain so he could have a choice to come back into your warm home?

See Kaylagrl, I'm not arguing with you. I'm trying to make you see how complicated it is. I'm trying to make you see that there is NO ANSWER to the question of evil.

NO ANSWER.

Fran

We're going to leave being friends?!! You may have to provide a plate of cookies to prove that!

Ok, I do see where you are coming from. I guess I dont like unanswered questions? There has to be an answer. We're missing it somehow. Maybe smarter than the two of us will get it. :p
 
Apr 30, 2016
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We're going to leave being friends?!! You may have to provide a plate of cookies to prove that!

Ok, I do see where you are coming from. I guess I dont like unanswered questions? There has to be an answer. We're missing it somehow. Maybe smarter than the two of us will get it. :p
I don't bake - but I'm willing to buy you some.

Mr. Augustine and Mr. Aquinas had no answer. Augustine was a little confused and changed his mind on the whole matter. He thought he had the answer but, alas, before dying he admitted there was no answer. Aquinas spoke and wrote much on evil, but never said where it originates. And THAT is the crux of the whole problem!

So listen. If you DO get the answer, please contact me and let me know! I've been looking for it for 40 years!!
And there'll be some cookies waiting for you too!

Blessings
Fran
 
G

GAOH

Guest
If it's not true I don't have to explain it at all
You play turtle here. You come into the best Christian online community and make your challenge and then when you get a legitimate answer you reply like that. Why don't you go prove that the Earth is round then. That is not a joke. Why don't you go learn some real life skills and wake up. You are here on this Earth and you will never leave it, EVER! Not without getting on your knees and be humble and admit that you are a sinner and that you know He has died for your sins and that you know that only through Him that you may have eternal life and be saved by the good graces of The Lord Thy God. You will perish in the lake of fire HADES for all eternity along with your atheist occult. Forever! Eternity is eternity dear Davy11011 God have mercy on your soul. God bless you I will pray you will pray for yourself and I along with every other God fearing Christian here will bow down to him and pray for your eternal salvation that you wake up and know Him. Good day Davy11011
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I don't bake - but I'm willing to buy you some.

Mr. Augustine and Mr. Aquinas had no answer. Augustine was a little confused and changed his mind on the whole matter. He thought he had the answer but, alas, before dying he admitted there was no answer. Aquinas spoke and wrote much on evil, but never said where it originates. And THAT is the crux of the whole problem!

So listen. If you DO get the answer, please contact me and let me know! I've been looking for it for 40 years!!
And there'll be some cookies waiting for you too!

Blessings
Fran

We do virtual cookies around here, and we eat a lot. Just ask Melita,she pops up at any mention of food.lol

Pink-Cookies-01.jpg

You've challenged me now, I have to dig and find a good answer!
 
May 25, 2015
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Hey guys,

I am an atheist and would like to debate anyone about God. Please respond ASAP.
I think it's fair to say that the majority of the people on a Christian forum site will say, "Yes, God exists."
 
Apr 30, 2016
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We do virtual cookies around here, and we eat a lot. Just ask Melita,she pops up at any mention of food.lol

View attachment 151319

You've challenged me now, I have to dig and find a good answer!
Melita. Yeah.
I'm on a seafood diet myself.
I see food, I eat it.
LOL.
Luckily, I don't seem to gain weight.

Oh. And thanks for the cookies.
They were delish.

Fran
 
Apr 8, 2016
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Melita. Yeah.
I'm on a seafood diet myself.
I see food, I eat it.
LOL.
Luckily, I don't seem to gain weight.

Oh. And thanks for the cookies.
They were delish.

Fran
Lol. Hi.
I was like that my whole life, and at one point, the Doctor even told my mom,
'Give him more cookies'! No lie, not making that up.
It's only been the last year or two that I'vd been seeing the belly grow, but I'm not overweight by any stretch, it is internal, and as I go to PT for my back, they are trying to get my core strengthened and toned, but it's just the belly, and it has me a bit concerned...the rest of me is still on the thinner side, and I went through a time when I was skinny as a rail and pretty self-conscious, because back then, even though it wasn't cool to pick on fat ppl, you couldn't just say, Hey fatso, you're fat... but ppl wouldn't hesitate to say, Hey, bones, or, Man, you're so skinny, or call you skinnyminny, and so I had to pretend it didn't bother me, but it did, and I found out how cruel ppl are with the way they pick on and ridicule others, and it still bothers me, for myself and when I see it done to others.
I don't mean friendly jesting, but I'm talking about outright superior attitudes and put-downs of others in a smarmy way. Not good!
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Lol. Hi.
I was like that my whole life, and at one point, the Doctor even told my mom,
'Give him more cookies'! No lie, not making that up.
It's only been the last year or two that I'vd been seeing the belly grow, but I'm not overweight by any stretch, it is internal, and as I go to PT for my back, they are trying to get my core strengthened and toned, but it's just the belly, and it has me a bit concerned...the rest of me is still on the thinner side, and I went through a time when I was skinny as a rail and pretty self-conscious, because back then, even though it wasn't cool to pick on fat ppl, you couldn't just say, Hey fatso, you're fat... but ppl wouldn't hesitate to say, Hey, bones, or, Man, you're so skinny, or call you skinnyminny, and so I had to pretend it didn't bother me, but it did, and I found out how cruel ppl are with the way they pick on and ridicule others, and it still bothers me, for myself and when I see it done to others.
I don't mean friendly jesting, but I'm talking about outright superior attitudes and put-downs of others in a smarmy way. Not good!
B1,
You know I love you but I'm going to have to be your mommy just for a moment.
(not longer than that!)
DON'T GET A BELLY!
You're a guy so you'll appreciate the first reason:
Girls don't like it. Unless you're a billionaire THEN we could put up with a lot!! (maybe even a millionaire??)

BUT, the most important reason (as if that weren't enough...) is because it's very bad for your heart - and I don't mean romance-wise!

So, yeah. Get that belly out of the way. I may ask for proof at some point, so work on it.

Re cruelty. Kids are very cruel. They're natural. Natural means the sin nature is fully at work in you.
They haven't been regenerated yet. Some have, but very few. Some really love Jesus. It's beautiful to behold.

Do you remember this?:
Sticks and stones
will break my bones
But words
will never harm.

Now that we're big boys and girls, we know that this is not true.
Words sting, and remain with us forever.

Blessings
Fran
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I think it's fair to say that the majority of the people on a Christian forum site will say, "Yes, God exists."
I just caught your signature line.
I think that's my good laugh for the day!

Remember to let us know.
I'm waiting with baited breath...

Fran
 
M

Morrissey

Guest
Hey man, I'm not Christian either, but frankly atheism is wrong too. It's just another religion now, and I recommend leaving it. Explore the infinite universe of thought and find something of your own. I recommend something like existentialism, which I am partial to, but what ever works for you.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Hey man, I'm not Christian either, but frankly atheism is wrong too. It's just another religion now, and I recommend leaving it. Explore the infinite universe of thought and find something of your own. I recommend something like existentialism, which I am partial to, but what ever works for you.
Can't a Christian also be an existentialist?
Or is it that once you become a Christian and, kind of, understand what we're all doing here, you necessarily can no longer be an existentialist?

Have you looked into Taoism? I niece of mine is a Taoist. I cannot for the life of me understand what this is all about.

I do applaud you for understanding that atheism is a religion. Some deny this.
So, everybody is searching.

Why do you think that is?
Maybe because there's something to be found?

If you have a bible, look up
Romans 1:19-20
Romans 2:14-15
John 12:32
Psalm 19:1-3

Or online. I think these verses were written for you.

Fran
 
M

Morrissey

Guest
I find solace in a pointless existence and think the bible by virtue doesn't think that. C.S. Louis is the closest Christans can get to existential thought. What it gets down to is this. Life is pointless. It's because of this that we must find our own purpose. Christans inherit purpose from the bible, thus existentialism is caput for Christians.
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
I find solace in a pointless existence and think the bible by virtue doesn't think that. C.S. Louis is the closest Christans can get to existential thought. What it gets down to is this. Life is pointless. It's because of this that we must find our own purpose. Christans inherit purpose from the bible, thus existentialism is caput for Christians.
I think you mean: C.S. Lewis.

Kierkegaard, who made the word "existentialism" popular, also said: "Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced."

-and-

"Once you label me you negate me."

-and-

"The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays."

-and-

"God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners."

Therefore, an "existentialist" need not abandon faith in God.
 
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M

Morrissey

Guest
I would more towards Kant and schopenhauer for the principles of existential thought. I tend to elaborate on their teachings with my own two sense, but it seems that religion really would work with existentialism. They are so radically different. In my interpretation of the literature, it points to a random existence made by pure chance. No God or any romancitism, just coincidence. Christianity instill a purpose with the creation story. I think that C.S * Lewis (forgive my horrible spelling errors) got close. He never specifically talks about it, but I think what he talked about verged on it. God wants us to suffer so that we may find our own happiness and meaning. I think that's close, but it fails at accepting the truley important idea that the universe is inheritly pointless.
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
I would more towards Kant and schopenhauer for the principles of existential thought. I tend to elaborate on their teachings with my own two sense, but it seems that religion really would work with existentialism. They are so radically different. In my interpretation of the literature, it points to a random existence made by pure chance. No God or any romancitism, just coincidence. Christianity instill a purpose with the creation story. I think that C.S * Lewis (forgive my horrible spelling errors) got close. He never specifically talks about it, but I think what he talked about verged on it. God wants us to suffer so that we may find our own happiness and meaning. I think that's close, but it fails at accepting the truley important idea that the universe is inheritly pointless.
I appreciate the CS Lewis works I've read--I haven't read much, but he's good stuff.

On suffering:

1 Peter 5:10 English Standard Version (ESV)

10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.