Heretic :An Introduction

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Mar 1, 2016
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#21
I said "remember it may take 30 seconds to ask a question but will take many many times that answer]"

You replied "
Should it, if that answer is based upon the simplicity of the universe?
"

Simplicity forms the building blocks that we use, one layer upon another upon another. If I were to describe to you a brick, what morter is, lengths of timber etc each of them simple in their own right. I now ask you to describe how to build a house. Would it shock you to discover that describing that process would take much more time than asking the question?

Peace

From your friendly neighbourhood Heretic
 
Mar 1, 2016
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#22
I said "I have a set of views that I am fairly sure are self consistent. I am open to new ideas if I am presented with enough evidence and if you have the same outlook then we will get along just fine.. "

Willie-T said "I think we have the same outlook. As I understood you, you said you didn't have the time nor inclination to really do any studying of anything we might present... only that you just came to a forum venue to counter points people here could type out for you to read.

I feel the same. "

I don't have a lot of time spare to do the level of studying that it seems is required to understand the smoke and mirrors of yet another house where logic at first seems to hold sway. I am quite caplable of reading what is said and if in difficulty I can ask questions. The alternative is to walk into the sunset as I did when a muslim told me that the koran is only the koran when it is in arabic. My English version just didn't cut the mustard. I wasn't prepared to learn Arabic so end of story.

1LonelyKnight said "We are evaluating a literary work here and hermeneutics is a literary interpretive system"

Theopedia [http://www.theopedia.com/interpretation-of-the-bible] says "Hermeneutics is the science of interpreting what an author has written. In Christian theology, hermeneutics focuses specifically on constructing and discovering the appropriate rules for interpreting the Bible. These methods and principles, however, are often drawn from outside of scripture in historical, literary or other fields. It inevitably involves exegesis, which is the act of interpreting or explaining the meaning of scripture. The goal in applying the principles of hermeneutics is to "rightly handle the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15), striving to accurately discern the meaning of the text."

How about just reading it plain and simple?

The only parallel I can think of for "hermeneutics" is the systems used by Rabbis to interpret the various Jewish books and that resulted in the kabbalah. I’m also sure that or somebody will tell me I’m wrong.

Either the bible means what it says or it doesn’t, if it doesn’t then what are we arguing about. If it does mean what it says then a plain reading of the text should be enough, possible with contextual history as a background.

I have to ask “Is hermeneutics just a form of JuJu used to indoctrinate the young or the confused?” I have come across such systems in the Moonies, Hare Krsna, Children Of God, Baptist and Catholic Churches. I have not found it in Buddhist sect but maybe I didn’t look too hard as it seemed the least harmful of religions I have yet to find time to look at the Jains but they seem harmless too.

Peace

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Heretic
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#23
Hi Heretic...
I'd like to suggest to you the use of the "Reply with Quote" option in the lower-right corner of a post. It makes responding much easier, as you don't have to use Copy-Paste. :)

As for the meat of your position, when you can come up with a scientifically-sound rationale for the origin of life, I'll consider what you have to say on other issues. Not even the antagonistic Dawkins or the pugilistic Hitchens has managed that yet (Hitchens won't, as he has died). It is mathematically impossible, scientifically unproven, and overall merely a quack hypothesis intended to avoid the moral accountability which God sets before us. In other words, it's baseless. All discussion of evolutionary theory stands or falls on this.
 
Mar 1, 2016
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#24
Dino said "As for the meat of your position, when you can come up with a scientifically-sound rationale for the origin of life, I'll consider what you have to say on other issues."

That's a bit like me saying show me the wounds of Jesus and the moment you do that I will consider what you have to say on other issues. Starting a discussion like that is really using your ace card too soon in a game of whatever play at the moment.

Dino said "Not even the antagonistic Dawkins or the pugilistic Hitchens has managed that yet (Hitchens won't, as he has died)."

These are not the only people to ask. I remember a very interesting program a few years ago about "The Cell". It was on one of Melvyn Braggs In Our Time programs and itr spoke about proton pumps and the mitachondria and self replicating molecules. It was a long time ago and though it didn't claim to explain life from non-life I clearly got the impression that their would one day soon. I found the link BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time, The Cell . Now I don't know if you can get access to it as I remember there being free access to BBC content outside the UK. After listening to this program I was very clearly under the impression that an explanation such as the one you seem to require will soon be on the table. It's probably a great deal about the definition of terms. The researchers that discover the explanation for life will most likely sit on it for a long life because to declare this and then to have to admit they were wrong would destroy a career.

Dino said "It is mathematically impossible, scientifically unproven, and overall merely a quack hypothesis intended to avoid the moral accountability which God sets before us. In other words, it's baseless. All discussion of evolutionary theory stands or falls on this."

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here but let's give it a crack. I will ignore the first part as I do not understand it. YOu then talk about moral accountability as though the source of our morals were God, which it isn't.

Dino says " All discussion of evolutionary theory stands or falls on this."

This sentence has no link to the proceeding content and must stand or fall oin it's own merits and in my opinion it falls.

Peace

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Heretic
 
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1LonelyKnight

Guest
#25
Welcome to Christian chat.
Let us move with the discussions to the appropriate forums. Start a thread topic.
 

RoseRed

Junior Member
Feb 7, 2016
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#27
I have a set of views that I am fairly sure are self consistent. I am open to new ideas if I am presented with enough evidence and if you have the same outlook then we will get along just fine..

Peace

Heretic
Honestly, why do you think any of us are interested in stimulating you to have "new ideas" or to try in any way to persuade you to believe anything you don't already believe. If you want new ideas, go find them for yourself. I'm happy enough to listen to your POV, but don't be so presumptuous to think I haven't already considered every thought you have had. My faith in Christ is not an uninformed one. :)

Peace,

Your friendly neighborhood rose
 
Mar 1, 2016
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#28
Hi Rosered

You said “Honestly, why do you think any of us are interested in stimulating you to have "new ideas" or to try in any way to persuade you to believe anything you don't already believe.”

Experience tells me that people that frequent message boards like this one have at least a small desire to share their ideas with others. They are also willing to discuss what they believe is truth because truth is important to them and while they might help others to learn truth they might also learn something as well. My reason for being here is not that different.

You said” If you want new ideas, go find them for yourself.”

I am here aren’t I.

You said “I'm happy enough to listen to your POV,”

I’m glad to hear it, I am also here to learn. If people are not ready to listen then frequently they are not yet ready to speak.

You said ” but don't be so presumptuous to think I haven't already considered every thought you have had.”

It would be easy for me to have similar views having first of all been a Christian for a decade or two and debated with many more since. But that path where we close our ears, minds and hearts leads to a place where we cannot learn anything from anyone. That’s not a place I want to be.

You said “ My faith in Christ is not an uninformed one. ”

Good then we might learn from each other. I have no interest, or not much, in speaking to “babes in Christ” as they are too easy to hurt and I try to debate with “mature Christians” and to be mindfull that less mature Christians might be reading.

Peace Rosered,

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Heretic