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Thread: what is a Christian

  1. #61
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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I do find the questions boring and purposely antagonistic. God, Jehovah, often used powerful angels to speak to humans.
    In other words "bronson" you can't answer them because your "Biblically" illeterate. Exodus 20:22 specifically states, "Then the Lord said to Moses, Thus yo shall say to the sons of Israel, You yourself have seen THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU FROM HEAVEN." I don't seen any angel speaker here bronson?

    Secondly, are you going to tell me that at Mark 1:11 and angel is speaking? "and a voice came out of the heavens. "Thou art My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased." I didn't know angels had kids bronson. And you still can't tell me who physically appeared to Abraham at Genesis 17:1,2? Like I said, you don't know your Bible.

    IN GOD THE SON,
    bluto
    Last edited by bluto; 1 Week Ago at 09:12 PM.
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    "I AM Jehovah and besides me there is no saviour"
    "I and the Father are One"
    Those of you who think you know need to think again, If you think you know you stop learning.
    "If any man thinks He knows He does not know as he should."
    If anyone is saying, You don't know the bible and doesn't realise this applies to Him saying this, he stops learning in his pride of achievement. I hear the Lord speak to me almost every day, this began 40 years ago, last year he told me: Don't think that you know. I had to face the pride of accomplishment that kept me from going forward in God. "...And this we will do if God permits, let us go on to perfection." God will not permit those cough up with pride to go on to perfection. Fortunately we are saved by Grace through Faith that works by this Grace, being God's influence to Learn of Him to Love, and not by what we think we know.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by stillness View Post
    "I AM Jehovah and besides me there is no saviour"
    "I and the Father are One"
    Those of you who think you know need to think again, If you think you know you stop learning.
    "If any man thinks He knows He does not know as he should."
    If anyone is saying, You don't know the bible and doesn't realise this applies to Him saying this, he stops learning in his pride of achievement. I hear the Lord speak to me almost every day, this began 40 years ago, last year he told me: Don't think that you know. I had to face the pride of accomplishment that kept me from going forward in God. "...And this we will do if God permits, let us go on to perfection." God will not permit those cough up with pride to go on to perfection. Fortunately we are saved by Grace through Faith that works by this Grace, being God's influence to Learn of Him to Love, and not by what we think we know.
    In here, we find just a smidgen of the tens of thousands of man' interpretations of the Word of God. IMO. some get an impression from part of the scriptures and that is enough, after all we only last three score and ten years on the average, so why waste time looking for the TRUTH.

    Do a quick reconnoitre: Xmas and Easter are pagan rituals, as is praying to saints. Does anyone here believe that you can be Christian and pagan too...Constantine did.

    Explain to me the role of the 1440,000 faithful and discreet slave class. When the last of these servants of God leave the earth, what will happen then? and when will the last of these ones leave the earth? What does it mean "When the last one is sealed"?

    Who is the harlot riding on the back of the beast? what does it mean "When the beast turns on the harlot, devouring her fleshy parts...."?

    Jehovah was proud of his creation of the world, the universe, mankind, and Eden...Do you think he has now dumped that concept for mankind?

    what was the mystery spoken of in Eden, where Jehovah said to Satan he will create enmity between your seed and her seed..." And what was its meaning for mankind of today? Who does "Her" mean.

    Bluto calls me ignorant of the scriptures;however talking to Bluto is like Albert talking to a pre-school kid who has slow mental ability.

    I am not particularly interested in his answer.
    Last edited by Bronson; 1 Week Ago at 04:32 AM.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    In here, we find just a smidgen of the tens of thousands of man' interpretations of the Word of God. IMO. some get an impression from part of the scriptures and that is enough, after all we only last three score and ten years on the average, so why waste time looking for the TRUTH.

    Do a quick reconnoitre: Xmas and Easter are pagan rituals, as is praying to saints. Does anyone here believe that you can be Christian and pagan too...Constantine did.

    Explain to me the role of the 1440,000 faithful and discreet slave class. When the last of these servants of God leave the earth, what will happen then? and when will the last of these ones leave the earth? What does it mean "When the last one is sealed"?

    Who is the harlot riding on the back of the beast? what does it mean "When the beast turns on the harlot, devouring her fleshy parts...."?

    Jehovah was proud of his creation of the world, the universe, mankind, and Eden...Do you think he has now dumped that concept for mankind?

    what was the mystery spoken of in Eden, where Jehovah said to Satan he will create enmity between your seed and her seed..." And what was its meaning for mankind of today? Who does "Her" mean.

    Bluto calls me ignorant of the scriptures;however talking to Bluto is like Albert talking to a pre-school kid who has slow mental ability.

    I am not particularly interested in his answer.
    Well bronson, you are Biblically ignorant which is proven by the fact that instead of answering questions you deflect by making me the subject of your ignorance. And for your information as well as for stillness here Jesus said this to the Pharisees at Mark 12:24, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES, or the power of God?"

    And then there is 1 Peter 3:15, "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense TO EVERYONE WHO ASKS YOU to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence." So bronson, if one claims to be a Christian you would think they would welcome questions to defend their beliefs just like the Apostle Peter is stating. But not you, why? What are you afraid of bronson?

    IN GOD THE SON,
    bluto
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    "If a man esteems a day above another, let him be fully convinced, if a man esteem every day alike let him be fully convinced also." To those who thought you what you wrote below, "Who are you to judge another man's servant, to his own master He stands or falls." I agree that we pray to the father in the relationship and identity of Jesus in constant fellowship with the Father, and this is the treasure that we seek, left as our inheritance. The study I mentioned to you, Journey to enter into rest is about this. Neither do I judge people on how they pray. "Jesus did not come to judge the world but that the world might be saved through Him"

    Do a quick reconnoitre: Xmas and Easter are pagan rituals, as is praying to saints. Does anyone here believe that you can be Christian and pagan too...Constantine did.

    Explain to me the role of the 1440,000 faithful and discreet slave class. When the last of these servants of God leave the earth, what will happen then? and when will the last of these ones leave the earth? What does it mean "When the last one is sealed"?

    Why do you think this applies to them and not to the Church: rather that God is waiting for the fullness of the Gentile nations to come in. These you are referring to may very well have been fulfilled already, and can't be added to, Israel as a fig tree dried by the roots. "No fruit grow on you from now on for ever." God was done with the old covenant and it required Him to die to annul it. As well as making the Way for His bride.

    Who is the harlot riding on the back of the beast? what does it mean "When the beast turns on the harlot, devouring her fleshy parts...."?

    Referring to the final battle, we are entering this time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again presently.

    A harlot deceives for gain it's those who love this present world more than the truth. You can not serve God and mammon," don't pin it down to an organisation. It's referring to the heart of man. "The heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked, who can know it." "Where your treasure is there your heart will be also."

    Jehovah was proud of his creation of the world, the universe, mankind, and Eden...Do you think he has now dumped that concept for mankind?
    There is a prophets who sais the Lord has reserved a Billion people for Himself. The crowd innumerable in heaven, the bride, it sais that she rules over the nations of the saved.

    what was the mystery spoken of in Eden, where Jehovah said to Satan he will create enmity between your seed and her seed..." And what was its meaning for mankind of today? Who does "Her" mean.
    Revelations 7:9 The woman is the church, the crowd innumerable in heaven that seems overlooked and attention given to the small remnant referred to tribes of Israel. Why
    The seed of the woman is Jesus, He bruised the head of the enemy, and the enemy bruised the feet of Jesus. His feet refers to His interaction with us. "How Lovely on the mountains are the feet of Him who brings good news, announcing peace, proclaiming news of renewal, our God reigns." The enemy deceived \god's people to reject Him and in the process God made a deadly wound in the head of deceit.

    Bluto calls me ignorant of the scriptures; however talking to Bluto is like Albert talking to a pre-school kid who has slow mental ability.

    Both of you said things to despise one another, doesn't mater who starts it's giving room for the enemy. "The enemy is the accuser of the brethren." "despise no one." Walking away from battles we are not meant to fight

    I am not particularly interested in his answer.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by stillness; 1 Week Ago at 12:53 AM.
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    What would stillness do? Since you directed this post to me I'm going to ask you what would you do? This is what bronson posted.

    In three instances in the Bible record, Jehovah is reported as speaking audibly to humans. These are: (1) At the time of Jesus’ baptism (29 C.E.), when Jehovah said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” Both Jesus and John the Baptizer undoubtedly heard this voice. (Mt 3:17; Mr 1:11; Lu 3:22) (2) At Jesus’ transfiguration (32 C.E.), with the apostles Peter, James, and John present, when virtually the same words were uttered. (Mt 17:5; Mr 9:7; Lu 9:35) (3) In 33 C.E., shortly before Jesus’ last Passover, when, responding to Jesus’ request that God glorify his name, a voice from heaven said: “I both glorified it and will glorify it again.” The crowd thought that it had thundered or that an angel had spoken to Jesus.—Joh 12:28, 29.

    God is an invisible spirit being and has never been seen by humans"

    I in turn posted verses that said the opposite in which God "DID" speak audibly to humans. I also ask bronson who appeared to Abraham at Genesis 17:1,2? To get an answer from him was like pulling teach. He instead made me the subject of his answers instead of dealing with the verses I quoted to him.

    So stillness, how do you come to the conclusion that I'm judging bronson on the basis that you think I know it all? I'm judging bronson alright, I'm judging his theology which is unbiblical. So how would you handle somebody that outrigt denies the deity of Jesus Christ? Is this person a Christian?

    In fact, you wrote the following: "I AM Jehovah and besides me there is no saviour"
    "I and the Father are One" What does that mean stillness? In what respect are the Father and Jesus Christ one? Christians are suppose to "sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, ALWAYS ready to make a defense to EVERYONE who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence." ! Peter 3:15.

    Keep in mind stillness, these are debate boards and there is going to be (at times) heated arguments, the pounding of tables, passionate and sometimes harsh replies. Instead of trying to focus on what the motives are of a person, focus on what they say and teach. For me this is "NOT" about trying to win arguments or despising somebody and what I say about someone and how I feel about them are two differenct things. The bottom line in ALL of this is, "Who is Jesus Christ?"

    IN GOD THE SON,
    bluto
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    I have had my share of arguments and learned the hard way that people become defensive in arguments and don't hear. If you told me, I don't know what I'm taking about I would agree with you and not take offence, as we don't know as we should but not likely communicate further. I used to get passionate but people telling me to calm eventually got my attention that I wasn't being heard and that's ok, as long as they are hearing from the lord. But for those who don't that they may hear me, I've calmed down. Also having understood that we are not saved by understanding mysteries, actually it's the lord that got through to me: there was a person in similar situation that believed in the Holy Spirit but did not believe that Jesus is God, at a bible study meting, almost 2 years ago, I completely disrupted the meeting with him and concluded to leave so I would not disrupt further, Then the Lord told me, "I don't need your help." I went back and apologised. It still took a while for me to get the meaning. I disrupted a few more classes for different reasons. I am learning to be quiet as part of inner journey to hear the Lord better and the Lord used an 18 year old girl to let me know I will hear better when obedient to the light I have, this also applies to everyone else we try in vain to help. The Lord recently delivered me from a divided spirit and now it's about standing firm, "Having done all to stand"...
    Jesus prayed that we would be One, just as He is with the Father, in John 17, The first thing that comes to mind is fellowship in the sufferings of Christ. To humble us and learn of Him and enter His rest, having ceased from ourselves.
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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by bluto View Post
    Well bronson, you are Biblically ignorant which is proven by the fact that instead of answering questions you deflect by making me the subject of your ignorance. And for your information as well as for stillness here Jesus said this to the Pharisees at Mark 12:24, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES, or the power of God?"

    And then there is 1 Peter 3:15, "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense TO EVERYONE WHO ASKS YOU to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence." So bronson, if one claims to be a Christian you would think they would welcome questions to defend their beliefs just like the Apostle Peter is stating. But not you, why? What are you afraid of bronson?

    IN GOD THE SON,
    bluto

    So what is it you wish to know Your Hollymess. I don't spend time looking at your posts so I may miss some jewel of yours. Are bits of granite jewels?

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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by bluto View Post
    What would stillness do? Since you directed this post to me I'm going to ask you what would you do? This is what bronson posted.

    In three instances in the Bible record, Jehovah is reported as speaking audibly to humans. These are: (1) At the time of Jesus’ baptism (29 C.E.), when Jehovah said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” Both Jesus and John the Baptizer undoubtedly heard this voice. (Mt 3:17; Mr 1:11; Lu 3:22) (2) At Jesus’ transfiguration (32 C.E.), with the apostles Peter, James, and John present, when virtually the same words were uttered. (Mt 17:5; Mr 9:7; Lu 9:35) (3) In 33 C.E., shortly before Jesus’ last Passover, when, responding to Jesus’ request that God glorify his name, a voice from heaven said: “I both glorified it and will glorify it again.” The crowd thought that it had thundered or that an angel had spoken to Jesus.—Joh 12:28, 29.

    God is an invisible spirit being and has never been seen by humans"

    I in turn posted verses that said the opposite in which God "DID" speak audibly to humans. I also ask bronson who appeared to Abraham at Genesis 17:1,2? To get an answer from him was like pulling teach. He instead made me the subject of his answers instead of dealing with the verses I quoted to him.

    So stillness, how do you come to the conclusion that I'm judging bronson on the basis that you think I know it all? I'm judging bronson alright, I'm judging his theology which is unbiblical. So how would you handle somebody that outrigt denies the deity of Jesus Christ? Is this person a Christian?

    In fact, you wrote the following: "I AM Jehovah and besides me there is no saviour"
    "I and the Father are One" What does that mean stillness? In what respect are the Father and Jesus Christ one? Christians are suppose to "sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, ALWAYS ready to make a defense to EVERYONE who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence." ! Peter 3:15.

    Keep in mind stillness, these are debate boards and there is going to be (at times) heated arguments, the pounding of tables, passionate and sometimes harsh replies. Instead of trying to focus on what the motives are of a person, focus on what they say and teach. For me this is "NOT" about trying to win arguments or despising somebody and what I say about someone and how I feel about them are two differenct things. The bottom line in ALL of this is, "Who is Jesus Christ?"

    IN GOD THE SON,
    bluto
    You don't have much of a grasp of the Scriptures do you: Instead of are try "In accord with each other". It is said that Jesus is the image of the "invisible God", how do you fumble over that one old mate.

    “I and the Father are one,” said Jesus. (John 10:30) Some quote this text to prove that Jesus and his Father are two parts of a triune God. Is that what Jesus meant by this statement?
    Let us take a look at the context. In verse 25, Jesus stated that he did works in the name of his Father. From verses 27 to 29, he talked about symbolic sheep whom his Father had given him. Both statements by Jesus would have made little sense to his listeners if he and his Father were one and the same person. Instead, Jesus said, in effect, ‘My Father and I are so close-knit that no one can take away the sheep from me, just as no one can take them away from my Father.’ It is much like a son saying to his father’s enemy, ‘If you attack my father, you attack me.’ No one would conclude that this son and his father were the same person. But all could perceive the strong bond of unity between them.
    Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God, are also “one” in the sense that they are in complete agreement as to intentions, standards, and values. In contrast with Satan the Devil and the first human couple, Adam and Eve, Jesus never wanted to become independent of God. “The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing,” Jesus explained. “For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”—John 5:19; 14:10; 17:8.
    This strong bond of unity, however, does not make God and his Son, Jesus, indistinguishable from each other. They are two individuals. Each one has his own distinct personality. Jesus has his own feelings, thoughts, experiences, and free will. Nevertheless, he chose to submit his will to that of his Father. According to Luke 22:42, Jesus said: “Let, not my will, but yours take place.” These words would have been meaningless if his will could not differ from his Father’s. If Jesus and his Father were really one person, why did Jesus pray to God and humbly admit to not knowing things that only his Father knew?—Matthew 24:36.
    Members of many religions worship gods that are depicted as quarreling and fighting with their own family members. In Greek mythology, for example, Cronus overthrew his father, Uranus, and devoured his own children. How different this is from the oneness based on true love between Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus! And how this unity endears them to us! In fact, we have the incomparable privilege of being in union with these two highest Persons in all the universe. Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: “I make request . . . that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us.”—John 17:20, 21.
    Thus, when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one,” he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity—the closest bond possible between two persons.

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    Default Re: what is a Christian

    Who is the harlot riding on the back of the beast? what does it mean "When the beast turns on the harlot, devouring her fleshy parts...."?

    Since I have the information your asking decided to post it as found on the net, nothing here is of me, it also includes the greatest outpouring of the Spirit of God during the time of trouble. I understood this before reading the vision and convinced it's of the Lord. 34 years ago the Lord told me, "Behold I Am with you in a time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again." and when I spoke this to someone else the first time, He added, "For it is coming upon all people as a testimony against them." Assuring me it wasn't just my time of trouble.

    The following is an end-time vision given to an established, seasoned minister of the gospel, Dr. Mark Barclay, and told in his own words. My heart was quickened when I read it and I thought: "This vision needs to be circulated to the body of Christ worldwide for we are seeing the increasing effects of it being unfolded in this hour, although it was given more than 25 years ago."
    If you are skeptical of these things I would encourage you to listen to your heart as you read it and allow the Holy Spirit to bear witness with you.
    "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. ... But the anointing which you have received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. For as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in Him" (1 John 2:20, 27)
    Here then is the vision told in the minister's own words:
    "In 1987 I was a speaker at a camp meeting in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I spoke during the Thursday evening service. Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin spoke during the Friday evening service. I remember that I had just flown in from meetings in Paris, France. I mentioned to my wife how much I would like to stay and hear Dr. Hagin speak. She agreed.
    As Dr. Hagin entered the pulpit, he began to pray in tongues. When he started, I started. A moment later, I was caught up in a vision (I was told later that it was probably more like a trance). As I went into this vision, I remember how Dr. Hagin's voice was getting quieter and quieter, until I could hear him no more. It was so quiet all around me I felt like I could hear my own heartbeat.
    All of a sudden I felt evil, as if it were surrounding me. Anger rose up in me, and fear tried to get a grip on me. Suddenly, something caught my attention out of my left eye. I turned hard to the left to see what it was. I saw the circumference of the earth, from one edge to the other, and this horrible black, dark cloud was rising up over the horizon. Somehow I knew it would eventually fill the entire earth.
    An alarm went off in me, screaming to me to run away from it as fast as I could. I felt like I should scream at it, to stop it in its tracks by using the name of Jesus. I began to rebuke it and started to say, "In the name of Jesus ... " I didn't quite get it out, and the Lord said, "That will do you no good."
    "What?" I said.
    The Lord said, "Son, you cannot use My name to stop what I prophesied. I am not causing this dark cloud, but I did prophesy it would happen in the last days."
    I remember in the vision that I asked the Lord "What is this? What is this evil, tempestuous, dark cloud?"
    The Lord said, "This is what I showed My prophet, Isaiah (Isa. 60:1-2). This is every evil thing you can name. It is every demon, it is every disease, it is sickness and bacterial attacks that haven't even been discovered yet. It will cause humans to do things to humans that aren't even human. It is filled with insanity, and many people will lose their mind and their faculties. It is murder, terror, rape, abuse, terrorism, torture and much worse. It is filled with deceptions, heresies, perversions and filth."
    Some things the Lord showed me I have not had permission to speak.
    I also saw people—many, many people. Some were running into the dark cloud, and some were being sucked into it. It reminded me of this very powerful Shop-vac I have. It will not only suck up the dirt but also my tools, if I don't pay attention.
    I saw may people screaming with terror and actually being dragged into this cloud. Though they were refusing it and resisting it with all their strength, they still did not possess the power to stop it.
    I was so disturbed when I saw a cross on someone's pocket or jewelry. I remember saying to the Lord, "Who are those people being drawn into this filth and terror, wearing the Christian symbol of the cross? Who are these people, not even resisting? And who are these people, resisting with all their might but it does them no good? They just keep disappearing into this horrible, evil cloud of gross darkness."
    The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, these are those who do not have clean hands and a pure heart. They have been warned but ignored the warnings. Some even wanted this filth as their lifestyle."
    I asked, "Well, who are these wearing the cross?"
    "Oh," the Lord said, "These are the people who claim Me as Savior. Many of them have desired this filth and even fought for it. They make excuses but are not excused. The ones who are resisting thought My prophets were exaggerating and from the old school, and they denied the warnings. Now that this evil has come, they possess little to no power, and certainly not enough to resist and overcome this horrible onslaught of enemy power. Only those with clean hands and a pure heart will be able to totally resist this. It will cover the earth."
    There was much more to this, but I began to come out of the vision and once again heard Brother Hagin speaking in tongues from the pulpit.
    I asked my wife what had happened, and she said, "Nothing, he hasn't done anything but pray in the spirit."

    I began to realize that nobody seemed to see this vision or get caught up into this trance but me. I held my wife's hand a little tighter and began to pray fervently in the spirit. As I did, I got caught up in the spirit again.
    Just like before, Brother Hagin's voice got quieter and quieter until it was gone. I found myself alone again. It was so quiet I could hear my own heartbeat. Suddenly, a piercing light hit the corner of my right eye. It was so bright that I instantly shrouded my head with my hands and arms. It reminded me of the intense light that my optometrist uses to examine the back of my eyes. Actually, it was much brighter than that.
    Everything within me said, "Turn and look into it. Turn now, and run into it." Yet there was this hesitation because it was so bright it seemed to shine through me. Finally I gave in to it and looked directly at it. With both eyes I saw the depth of this bright cloud. Just like the dark cloud I had seen before, it was coming up over the horizon of the earth. I could tell that it was going to cover the planet. I just knew that I knew that nothing could stop it.
    I remembered asking the Lord, "What is this? What is this massive, earth-consuming, bright cloud?"
    The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, this is My glory. This is the glory cloud that I showed My prophet Isaiah (Isa. 61:1-2). This is what I promised, that My glory will fill the whole earth."
    "Well," I asked, "what is inside the cloud?"
    "It is filled with the greatest miracles humans have ever seen. It is filled with healing for every disease, and a cure for every sickness. It is power to overcome sin and filth—to receive the truth and reject error, heresy and doctrines of demons. It is a full manifestation of My Spirit. It is the full anointing of Jesus Christ and more, much more."
    He showed me other things that I have no permission to speak at this time.

    I saw people in this vision, just like before with the cloud of darkness. Many, many people were running into it and almost frolicking in it. It was like my first response—too bright to behold, and then I wanted to run into it. There were those who seemed to want to pull away from this glory cloud.
    "Lord, who will enter into this great glory of God and enjoy this awesome power?" I asked.
    "Those who have a pure heart and clean hands," the Lord answered. "They are the ones who will escape the horrible vacuum of the evil, dark cloud and be consumed with My glory. I will require you to tell these things to My people at an appointed time."
    Now is that time! As I travel the world over, I see both of these manifestations happening. In fact, I see them beginning to intensify. Sometimes I say that both God and Satan are having a revival among men. We will now see more and more people running to each cloud, causing a great gulf or divide. Could this be the separation of sheep and goats, or the separation of wheat and tares?
    I am not a conspiracy-theory person. I am not a fear-based preacher. I am not a prophet of doom. So what I am about to say is none of these. But, I am actually witnessing the spirits of the Antichrist, prepping the people of the earth (including many church goers) for the arrival of the Antichrist himself. I see demons (spirits of the Antichrist) going throughout all the earth. They are slowly re-programming the minds of men (doctrines of demons) to systematically disassemble the work of Christ and disengage the army of God.
    You can avoid this, if you choose. If you choose not to, you will suffer the consequences. Please don't do that!" —Dr. Mark Barcla
    Journey to enter into rest in God,
    A work in progress you can read here in Poems and poetry.

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    In response to your statement: ’ No one would conclude that this son and his father were the same person.
    Many believe that God is one that the Name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Ghost: is Lord Jesus Christ, in English that is. In Hebrew it would be "Jehovah saves," "Not by might nor by power but by My Spirit sais the Lord." Can you at least see that they are one. If not I don't mind it's not my job to teach, I'm, to do the work of an evangelist: proclaim deliverance.
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    A work in progress you can read here in Poems and poetry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stillness View Post
    Who is the harlot riding on the back of the beast? what does it mean "When the beast turns on the harlot, devouring her fleshy parts...."?

    Since I have the information your asking decided to post it as found on the net, nothing here is of me, it also includes the greatest outpouring of the Spirit of God during the time of trouble. I understood this before reading the vision and convinced it's of the Lord. 34 years ago the Lord told me, "Behold I Am with you in a time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again." and when I spoke this to someone else the first time, He added, "For it is coming upon all people as a testimony against them." Assuring me it wasn't just my time of trouble.

    The following is an end-time vision given to an established, seasoned minister of the gospel, Dr. Mark Barclay, and told in his own words. My heart was quickened when I read it and I thought: "This vision needs to be circulated to the body of Christ worldwide for we are seeing the increasing effects of it being unfolded in this hour, although it was given more than 25 years ago."
    If you are skeptical of these things I would encourage you to listen to your heart as you read it and allow the Holy Spirit to bear witness with you.
    "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. ... But the anointing which you have received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. For as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in Him" (1 John 2:20, 27)
    Here then is the vision told in the minister's own words:
    "In 1987 I was a speaker at a camp meeting in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I spoke during the Thursday evening service. Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin spoke during the Friday evening service. I remember that I had just flown in from meetings in Paris, France. I mentioned to my wife how much I would like to stay and hear Dr. Hagin speak. She agreed.
    As Dr. Hagin entered the pulpit, he began to pray in tongues. When he started, I started. A moment later, I was caught up in a vision (I was told later that it was probably more like a trance). As I went into this vision, I remember how Dr. Hagin's voice was getting quieter and quieter, until I could hear him no more. It was so quiet all around me I felt like I could hear my own heartbeat.
    All of a sudden I felt evil, as if it were surrounding me. Anger rose up in me, and fear tried to get a grip on me. Suddenly, something caught my attention out of my left eye. I turned hard to the left to see what it was. I saw the circumference of the earth, from one edge to the other, and this horrible black, dark cloud was rising up over the horizon. Somehow I knew it would eventually fill the entire earth.
    An alarm went off in me, screaming to me to run away from it as fast as I could. I felt like I should scream at it, to stop it in its tracks by using the name of Jesus. I began to rebuke it and started to say, "In the name of Jesus ... " I didn't quite get it out, and the Lord said, "That will do you no good."
    "What?" I said.
    The Lord said, "Son, you cannot use My name to stop what I prophesied. I am not causing this dark cloud, but I did prophesy it would happen in the last days."
    I remember in the vision that I asked the Lord "What is this? What is this evil, tempestuous, dark cloud?"
    The Lord said, "This is what I showed My prophet, Isaiah (Isa. 60:1-2). This is every evil thing you can name. It is every demon, it is every disease, it is sickness and bacterial attacks that haven't even been discovered yet. It will cause humans to do things to humans that aren't even human. It is filled with insanity, and many people will lose their mind and their faculties. It is murder, terror, rape, abuse, terrorism, torture and much worse. It is filled with deceptions, heresies, perversions and filth."
    Some things the Lord showed me I have not had permission to speak.
    I also saw people—many, many people. Some were running into the dark cloud, and some were being sucked into it. It reminded me of this very powerful Shop-vac I have. It will not only suck up the dirt but also my tools, if I don't pay attention.
    I saw may people screaming with terror and actually being dragged into this cloud. Though they were refusing it and resisting it with all their strength, they still did not possess the power to stop it.
    I was so disturbed when I saw a cross on someone's pocket or jewelry. I remember saying to the Lord, "Who are those people being drawn into this filth and terror, wearing the Christian symbol of the cross? Who are these people, not even resisting? And who are these people, resisting with all their might but it does them no good? They just keep disappearing into this horrible, evil cloud of gross darkness."
    The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, these are those who do not have clean hands and a pure heart. They have been warned but ignored the warnings. Some even wanted this filth as their lifestyle."
    I asked, "Well, who are these wearing the cross?"
    "Oh," the Lord said, "These are the people who claim Me as Savior. Many of them have desired this filth and even fought for it. They make excuses but are not excused. The ones who are resisting thought My prophets were exaggerating and from the old school, and they denied the warnings. Now that this evil has come, they possess little to no power, and certainly not enough to resist and overcome this horrible onslaught of enemy power. Only those with clean hands and a pure heart will be able to totally resist this. It will cover the earth."
    There was much more to this, but I began to come out of the vision and once again heard Brother Hagin speaking in tongues from the pulpit.
    I asked my wife what had happened, and she said, "Nothing, he hasn't done anything but pray in the spirit."

    I began to realize that nobody seemed to see this vision or get caught up into this trance but me. I held my wife's hand a little tighter and began to pray fervently in the spirit. As I did, I got caught up in the spirit again.
    Just like before, Brother Hagin's voice got quieter and quieter until it was gone. I found myself alone again. It was so quiet I could hear my own heartbeat. Suddenly, a piercing light hit the corner of my right eye. It was so bright that I instantly shrouded my head with my hands and arms. It reminded me of the intense light that my optometrist uses to examine the back of my eyes. Actually, it was much brighter than that.
    Everything within me said, "Turn and look into it. Turn now, and run into it." Yet there was this hesitation because it was so bright it seemed to shine through me. Finally I gave in to it and looked directly at it. With both eyes I saw the depth of this bright cloud. Just like the dark cloud I had seen before, it was coming up over the horizon of the earth. I could tell that it was going to cover the planet. I just knew that I knew that nothing could stop it.
    I remembered asking the Lord, "What is this? What is this massive, earth-consuming, bright cloud?"
    The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, this is My glory. This is the glory cloud that I showed My prophet Isaiah (Isa. 61:1-2). This is what I promised, that My glory will fill the whole earth."
    "Well," I asked, "what is inside the cloud?"
    "It is filled with the greatest miracles humans have ever seen. It is filled with healing for every disease, and a cure for every sickness. It is power to overcome sin and filth—to receive the truth and reject error, heresy and doctrines of demons. It is a full manifestation of My Spirit. It is the full anointing of Jesus Christ and more, much more."
    He showed me other things that I have no permission to speak at this time.

    I saw people in this vision, just like before with the cloud of darkness. Many, many people were running into it and almost frolicking in it. It was like my first response—too bright to behold, and then I wanted to run into it. There were those who seemed to want to pull away from this glory cloud.
    "Lord, who will enter into this great glory of God and enjoy this awesome power?" I asked.
    "Those who have a pure heart and clean hands," the Lord answered. "They are the ones who will escape the horrible vacuum of the evil, dark cloud and be consumed with My glory. I will require you to tell these things to My people at an appointed time."
    Now is that time! As I travel the world over, I see both of these manifestations happening. In fact, I see them beginning to intensify. Sometimes I say that both God and Satan are having a revival among men. We will now see more and more people running to each cloud, causing a great gulf or divide. Could this be the separation of sheep and goats, or the separation of wheat and tares?
    I am not a conspiracy-theory person. I am not a fear-based preacher. I am not a prophet of doom. So what I am about to say is none of these. But, I am actually witnessing the spirits of the Antichrist, prepping the people of the earth (including many church goers) for the arrival of the Antichrist himself. I see demons (spirits of the Antichrist) going throughout all the earth. They are slowly re-programming the minds of men (doctrines of demons) to systematically disassemble the work of Christ and disengage the army of God.
    You can avoid this, if you choose. If you choose not to, you will suffer the consequences. Please don't do that!" —Dr. Mark Barcla
    I am not sure if you answered my question, but let me say this. Speaking in tongues was given to the apostles at Pentecost in 33 CE. The purpose was so that they could speak in the language of the many that had gathered to hear God's Word. As the Apostles died out, so did the speaking in different languages or tongues.

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    There is a clear insight into the harlot and the beast if you think about it. Who has ridden on the back of world governments for centuries past.

    I will say it is Christendom. So called Christian religions have even been the government of some nations, how much has Catholicism manoeuvred the governments to suit a purpose. That is who the harlot is, all false religion and the beast is the government of the time, in this case the United Nations, who will soon turn on the "Harlot".

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    Have heard the accusations of the enemy against the church and don't pay any attention. The church does not need to defend herself. Have fallen into addiction and chased misery, the enemy has no ground to accuse, I don't judge anyone, some grieve me even you, but I don't judge. I have no ground. I reproved harshly people who believe like you in the past, I don't anymore it doesn't help, and God assured me, "I don't need you help. ""We need His help just to see dimly."
    Journey to enter into rest in God,
    A work in progress you can read here in Poems and poetry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I am not sure if you answered my question, but let me say this. Speaking in tongues was given to the apostles at Pentecost in 33 CE. The purpose was so that they could speak in the language of the many that had gathered to hear God's Word. As the Apostles died out, so did the speaking in different languages or tongues.
    I'm not sure either, I'm Ernest, its my middle name. I am a disciple and speak in tongues, we are here until the end. "This generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled." "Behold I Am with you always even to the end of the world." Heaven and earth shall pass away but My words shall not pass away." What Jesus gave us here until the end.
    Journey to enter into rest in God,
    A work in progress you can read here in Poems and poetry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    You don't have much of a grasp of the Scriptures do you: Instead of are try "In accord with each other". It is said that Jesus is the image of the "invisible God", how do you fumble over that one old mate.

    “I and the Father are one,” said Jesus. (John 10:30) Some quote this text to prove that Jesus and his Father are two parts of a triune God. Is that what Jesus meant by this statement?
    Let us take a look at the context. In verse 25, Jesus stated that he did works in the name of his Father. From verses 27 to 29, he talked about symbolic sheep whom his Father had given him. Both statements by Jesus would have made little sense to his listeners if he and his Father were one and the same person. Instead, Jesus said, in effect, ‘My Father and I are so close-knit that no one can take away the sheep from me, just as no one can take them away from my Father.’ It is much like a son saying to his father’s enemy, ‘If you attack my father, you attack me.’ No one would conclude that this son and his father were the same person. But all could perceive the strong bond of unity between them.
    Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God, are also “one” in the sense that they are in complete agreement as to intentions, standards, and values. In contrast with Satan the Devil and the first human couple, Adam and Eve, Jesus never wanted to become independent of God. “The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing,” Jesus explained. “For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”—John 5:19; 14:10; 17:8.
    This strong bond of unity, however, does not make God and his Son, Jesus, indistinguishable from each other. They are two individuals. Each one has his own distinct personality. Jesus has his own feelings, thoughts, experiences, and free will. Nevertheless, he chose to submit his will to that of his Father. According to Luke 22:42, Jesus said: “Let, not my will, but yours take place.” These words would have been meaningless if his will could not differ from his Father’s. If Jesus and his Father were really one person, why did Jesus pray to God and humbly admit to not knowing things that only his Father knew?—Matthew 24:36.
    Members of many religions worship gods that are depicted as quarreling and fighting with their own family members. In Greek mythology, for example, Cronus overthrew his father, Uranus, and devoured his own children. How different this is from the oneness based on true love between Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus! And how this unity endears them to us! In fact, we have the incomparable privilege of being in union with these two highest Persons in all the universe. Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: “I make request . . . that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us.”—John 17:20, 21.
    Thus, when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one,” he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity—the closest bond possible between two persons.
    Come on bronson, what's this suppose to mean? "Some quote this text to prove that Jesus and his Father are two parts of a triune God. Is that what Jesus meant by this statement?" I'm not responsible for how others think or believe, so don't pass off something as if it's the truth.

    Now, regarding John 10:30 which literally says, "I and My Father, we are one." One what bronson? If it simply only meant one in purpose then why would the Jews want to stone/kill Jesus for blasphemy at John 10:33? As far as I know one cannot blaspheme for being one in purpose. On less you know something I don't know?

    So let's look at the context before John 10:30 where Jesus is saying that the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father. Jesus then asserted (John 10:30) unity of the Father and the Son in the word "one" (hen in Greek). It is a neuter number to indicate equality of essence, attributes, desigh, will and work. Jesus also "distinguishes the "I" from the "Father" and uses the plural verb "are" denonting "we are." These words separate the persons within the Godhead, but "one" asserst their unity OF ESSENCE OR NATURE AS IDENTICAL." This is backed up by Hebrews 1:3.

    Moving on to John 10:31, "The Jews took up stones AGAIN to stone Him." Jesus says why are you stoneing Me? (vs32). The Jews at vs33, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, (what is the blasphemy bronson?) because You, being a man, MAKE YOURSELF OUT GOD." You can read what is blasphemy at Leviticus 24:14-16. And btw, let me know if you spot the crime of blasphemy for being one in purpose with His Father or even His disciples?

    So the bottom line bronson is the fact that the Jews accused Jesus Christ of blasphemy for making Himself out God. At John 5:18 the Jews accused Jesus of being "equal" with God. At John 8:58 Jesus stated He existed before Abraham and they wanted to kill Him. These bty are the "AGAINS." There is another "again" at John 19:7 and in the trial record at Matthew 26:59-66. Not bad for little red Terrier huh bronson? And btw, I dare you to ask me how I know for 100% sure that John 10:30 has to do with "nature/essence" and not being one in purpose. It's right there in verses 34-39.

    IN GOD THE SON,
    bluto
    willfollowsGod likes this.

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    You are both imprisoned to quareling: Only by pride comes contention." "Pride goes before a fall." When pride comes then comes shame." I've been there in hell as well when you are fed up you will get help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillness View Post
    Have heard the accusations of the enemy against the church and don't pay any attention. The church does not need to defend herself. Have fallen into addiction and chased misery, the enemy has no ground to accuse, I don't judge anyone, some grieve me even you, but I don't judge. I have no ground. I reproved harshly people who believe like you in the past, I don't anymore it doesn't help, and God assured me, "I don't need you help. ""We need His help just to see dimly."
    I was using the Catholic Church as it has been the most powerful user of governments for a couple of thousand years. But of course, there is about 240 variable Catholic organizations, so, to say I am aiming in the direction of Catholicism is like saying I am using Chemotherapy to cure a wart.

    However, you must admit that the Church regimes of the world have not only relied on the world governments, but also tried to direct the leaders of those governments.

    This is a debating forum on "What is a Christian", naturally there are going to be toes trod on in the discussion.

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    A Christian is anyone who Follows and Believes In Christ. You will not find the word Christian in the Bible. Many sects exist in the Christian World but unfortunately they are divided on voting days.

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    Why do you assume Angels have no children? There is very little wisdom associated with Angels. Modern myths regarding Angels are at the best Science Fiction and they differ from Biblical (proof). There is no evidence to suggest an Angel or even Jesus Christ do not have children. If I was Jesus Christ I would impregnate 333,333 women per day, with angels.

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