I Believe In Evolution and the Bible

One cannot believe in the Bible and also believe in evolution at the same time ... They are 100% contradicting beliefs ... Either you believe in one or the other or something entirely different ... A person cannot believe in both ... They can fool themselves into thinking they believe in both, but it is impossible ... Just as it is impossible to be telling the truth and lying at the same time ... The Bible is the truth and everything else is a lie devised by mankind ... Why anyone would join a Christian network and then profess to believing in evolution is beyond me ...

I, like many, believe God used Evolutionary processes to create the world. I believe in a magnificent, wondrous God who is creative and artistic; one who can craft the world in logical but fantastic ways. When I look at the stars glistening in the night, glide my fingers across the fossils of shells and other marine life from my backyard, and gaze into the deep complexion this world has, I don't think God would be so fundamentally simple as you make him out to be. The Bible does not contradict science, except in visions and miracles which is of course needed, but it is not a science textbook. It is an anthology of beautiful and haunting books that deal with the philosophical connections we share to God. So when you decide to say that the Bible and Evolution are contradictory, you are molding God into a simple figment. Evolution explores the world of which God made. It's as amazing a theory as Cell Theory, Gravity, and germs. It shows God's wonder.

Let me answer your question: Why do I express this opinion on a Christian Network? I want to better my knowledge on it and see why others disagree so I can have a better, lucid understanding of this world.

Survey says....(crickets chirp)

Ok you just "disproved" yourself again asserting your "beliefs" but challenging others to prove you wrong with "opinions" even scientists and atheists would find that to be "ludicrous".

Noose,Ugly's "criticisms" is part of his "Job" so naw duh he's going to be "blunt" and "straightforward" especially considering he's a Christian too and evolution is one of the biggest annoyances to our faith.

Wintry_Rose, since you think creating a world, mankind and all of the animals is so "fundamentally simple", I challenge you to do it ...

Is this him?...

I don't. How did you possibly think I said that?

I really don't know how you can believe in micro-evolution and not macro-evolution. It's like saying I believe that 3 + 3 = 6, but I don't believe that 3 * 2 = 6. If there is micro-evolution, wouldn't it be logical to think that through billions of years, these small changes result in large changes? Think of it this way: If I stand in a field and take only one step in the entire day, it would be illogical to think that change is that great. My position is practically the same. However, if I were to spend an entire decade taking only one step a day, my position on that field would be extremely noticeable. This is the same for evolution. Though the changes organisms have are tiny, over billions of years they become more apparent. It's like smoking. One cigarette seems harmless, and so does the one after that, and after that, and so on. Though every cigarette seems negligible, after decades of habitual smoking, the lung turns black. I hope you see what I mean.

This is shown in creatures like whales. If we observe their fossil record, we can see that they evolved, or adapted if you will, from land dwelling mammals. They had legs. Then the species went in the water, and fossils show that the legs became smaller and smaller until they became flippers. Old remnants of these legs are still found in whales.

If you believe in micro-evolution/ adaptation, try to picture Macro-evolution as simply a large version of adaptation. It's a simplified view of millions of small variations from species to species. Though such changes seem very far fetched, consider the number one million. It seems oxymoronic that such a large number is told through a small word. Think of the ancient people like Jesus, Moses, and Alexander the Great and realize the closeness we are to those people in terms of one million. Picture all the sociological and technological changes that happened since those ancient times. Even all this is not captured in a span of one million years. And evolution does not occur in just one million years. It occurs in billions of years. It is impossible to count to one billion in your life time, nevertheless two or three billion. Such changes seem impossible until there is a clear comprehension of time and distance.

If evolution is true, then the Bible is a lie ... Why do you come on a Christian site to tell Christians the Bible is a lie ? ... If that is what you believe, then why do you not join an atheist site ? ...

Awe, I feel so bad for you. Somebody hurt your feelings.

Why not answer my question Wintry ? ... If you believe in evolution and not in the Bible then why did you join a Christian site ? ... Why did you not join an atheist site ? ...

Aaaah, i now get it.

He said he believes in both. There are so many Christians who believe that evolution is a process overseen by God.

There’s no such thing as ‘micro’ or ‘macro’ evolution. There aren’t any beneficial mutations either, all mutations are devastating and the devastations range from; no effect to the function to loss of function to death. We don’t have time to wait for millions of years to see if mutations would add up to a functioning system so that we can say “it was a series of beneficial mutations”.

‘Negative’ mutations only happens once (not a series) and the effects are felt showing us how this systems are already fine-tuned to function the way they are and any minimum change would be devastating.
The smallest functional unit is a gene but the outward functional unit is what we call the organ system and none of the organ system functions in isolation, they are all connected to one another.
Example: A whale cannot loose it’s limbs and then form flippers over any period of time. For the limb to function, the circulatory system/ the nervous system/ the skeletal system/ the endocrine system- all have to be functioning. For the limb to lose its functionality over time, corresponding mutations have to simultaneously happen to all these systems and these cannot be random anymore but coordinated.

The primate species did not grow a tail (10/20/30/40/50/60 cms) and then lose a tail (60/50/40/30/20/10cms). There are no fossils to prove these (different tail lengths, different time periods) and if beneficial mutations are the way to go, then loosing and gaining a tail are both beneficial mutations- but there is a bigger problem here, does the same sequence/series of mutations that resulted into a tail the same one but in a opposite cycle that resulted into the loss of a tail? Then how do you call this random?

No-one with contemporary training in biological sciences (this describes me) would claim that micro-evolution is merely a small version of macro-evolution!

All micro-evolution represents is the expression of recessive genes in particular species. The classic cited example WAS a certain species of moth found in Europe where a darker version appeared to emerge during the Industrial Revolution. All that happened was that a moth homozygous for a gene that allowed darker colouring of its wings gained temporary advantage against predators when it alighted on trees and other surfaces polluted with soot. Moths heterozygous for this gene where much lighter in colour and stood out on these dark surfaces and where easily predated.
Currently, the ratio of "dark" moths versus "light" moths of this species is now vastly in favour of the "light" moths since the environment in Europe is much cleaner than a century or so ago!

The point is that absolutely no evolution is involved in this process. No new genes are added or even modified...

As for macro-evolution, recent advances in cell biology make ANY kind of Darwinian process of evolution a practical impossibility...

Just for clarity: Evolution was always a THEORY!
Biologists have tried very hard to prove this theory, but have never succeeded.
Also remember in scientific hypotheses, no matter how compelling the circumstantial, or real, evidence, it only takes a single adverse proof to disprove that hypothesis!

Current advances in cell biology are making it clear that less advanced cells cannot morph into more advanced cells for the very compelling reason that the incomplete intermediates just do not function...
Everything in the cell needs to be present from the get-go or none of it works!

And, so the theory of Evolution is looking decidedly dodgy currently....

There are zero Christians that believe in evolution ... If that is what they believe, then they are clearly NOT a Christian because that is NOT what the Bible says ...

Wintry_Rose, welcome. At age 20, no matter how much studying you think you have done on the matter it isn’t enough. That is why you believe as you do. The brain is a computer that just downloads data and files it. If something has enough believability to it, it goes into the truth file. If something is false it goes into the false file. Since everything in the truth file are believed to be facts then they can’t contradict eachother. This is where our imagination steps in and fills in the gaps or shaves down the blocks so we can construct our belief system on a seemingly sturdy foundation. When we make the decision to believe too many things, our foundations become more imagination then facts. When you start trying to educate people, you have to make sure that their foundations aren’t set. The people here for the most part have not only set these foundations years ago, but have built their reality on them. Neither you, nor me will shake these foundations. The only way you can teach anybody anything is to emphatically remove a piece of that foundation....like I am going to do to you right now.

No matter how much you want to believe it, no matter how many layers of the earth you sift through, you will never find a macro-transitional fossil. Like I suggested how the brain works by accepting facts and bridging them with imagination is exactly how the “educators” sell evolution. It’s a magic trick. You believe the trick because you only look at what they are showing you. Then your brain imagines the rest. There is no “billions of years”. The Earth’s atmosphere was never suitable to spontaneously generate amino acids like taught. It is a lie. I’m not suggesting that the Bible’s record of creation is a scientific document. I don’t believe it was ever intended to be. If you perceive ALL OF THE DATA that history presents, it paints a different picture. My brain tells me Solomon said it best, “Everything that is, was. There is nothing new under the sun.” It appears to me that civilizations rise and fall. After the last destruction of life on Earth, it was again populated by a CREATOR, thousands of years ago, not millions.

Just look at what we have discovered about mammals, especially people. Look at how digestion and the cardiovascular systems work. Just by studying one of those systems alone for a week would open one’s eyes to the fact that it is by design. You live in a structure no doubt. It most likely consists of a skeleton, to give structure, a way to regulate temperature, an electrical system and plumbing. Even without a way for it to reproduce itself, and come equipped with adaptive technology and control the rate at which It populates, you will still conclude that even an eternity wouldn’t be enough time for the elements to spontaneously mine themselves, fasten and arrange the systems in perfect function. If that is your conclusion then you must delete evolution from your truth file because it just doesn’t belong there.

Hi and welcome! Why don't you post all your evidence in a new thread!