Hello all from Chestertonrules

1. I've had pretty good luck. Everyone I know admits the truth of every Scripture.

2. 1=3 is by definition a mathematical contradiction.

3. I was trained falsely in Catholic grade school by Felician nuns, in Catholic high school, in Depaul (Vincentian) University? I prayed the divine office for several years. I can quote the old liturgical norms by the page. I was in full time minstry, on the staff of catholic churches for 10 years. I was offered a teaching position in a seminary.

Then why are 2/3 of the churches i knew as a child closed? And why am I constantly counselling Catholics and children of Catholics who never go to church? The Catholic church is the only denomination that refuses to mark you off when you stop going. Do you know, the German Catholic Church has been excommunicating Catholics for not paying their tithe tax, because the problem has grown so rampant?

FYI:

Wounds to unity
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."[SUP]269[/SUP] The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism[SUP]270[/SUP] - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.[SUP]271[/SUP]
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."[SUP]272[/SUP]
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"[SUP]273[/SUP] are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."[SUP]274[/SUP] Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,[SUP]275[/SUP] and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."[SUP]276[/SUP]

Some of the hundreds of protestant pastors who have come home to the Catholic Church tell their stories here:

Catholic Conversion Stories | The Coming Home Network

Since you just started this as a thread, I'll let the other people here answer you.

You found it! Good job! Now, show me where it says that everyone else is wrong. Note the absence of the word "alone" at then end of 274a.

It says that the fullness of truth is only found in the Catholic Church. That's what I said. I also said that there is much truth taught elsewhere.

What is your problem with this?

I read it twice more, and I don't see it. Please give me the line number that says or implies the word "only".

Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.

Without showing me the word "only", I must conclude that I am correct that the Catholic Church no longer proclaims that everyone else is wrong. But if that is so, then why do you?

Chestertonrules,

You are the first person I've seen start a huge debate on first page of their introduction thread, just moments after joining.

You clearly came here with practice in Catholic apologetics, just to argue.


Welcome to the forum.

If the Church contains the fullness of truth, and someone else teaches a contradictory doctrine, who is wrong?

Hello...I'm happy you found a faith you believe in and you are comfortable in. I've always wondered about the Catholics confessing their sins to a priest, is it? I believe if we have sinned toward another individual, we should confess our sin(s) to that person and ask for their forgiveness, as well as repent to God for his forgiveness...but what is your purpose for confessing to a priest?

If this is the substance of your argument, then two conlcusions:

First I am correct that you cannot substantiate the phrase "and everyone else is wrong" from current church teaching. Perhaps you have another quote for me?

Secondly, I point out to you that your first assumption is unproven, that the Catholic Church contains the fullness of truth. See, the problem is, that there are many other churches maintaining that they contain the fulness of truth as well (since they have Jesus and all truth resides in Him). But to my knowledge, none of them has ever made the statement "and so everyone else is wrong" as a matter of public teaching. Having been raised Catholic, and trained by them, I know for a fact that they made this statement until Vatican II, which is of course the originators of the quote you gave, where that phrase has been taken out from the official doctrinal statements. I also know that they went to war several times in history, based on their belief that everyone else is wrong. This to me, proves a level of pride and judgmental attitude that is simply incompatible with the Gospel. I thus conclude that the Catholic Church is in fact, proved wrong by their actions, and thus that they do not have the fulness of truth. That makes the statement that they do have the fulness of truth a lie.

You are wrong. If the Church rightly claims possession of the fullness of truth, by definition those who disagree with the Church are wrong.

Your second point is a matter for debate. Jesus promised to be with the leaders of his Church until the end of time and that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth.


What does this mean to you?