The great "Wonder" "Woman" - Revelation 12

It has been an accepted teaching for may years that the the Jews would only allow a JEW to speak from their temple.

With pleasure. One verse - Revelation 12:1

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"

"And". The article is cumulative, copulative and sequential. It joins what went before. But herein lies a difficulty. The word "and" does not fit sequentially with Chapter 11. It fits Chapter 4:1. It is the continuation of a long list of "ands" starting with Revelation 4:1, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." The time frame is after Christ has found five of seven Churches apostate.

"There appeared". This means that the sign was hidden in the past. Whatever the sign and the Woman stand for, they are a mystery until it is time to displace Satan from heaven.

"A Great Wonder". The Greek word for "wonder" is translated elsewhere as "sign". It covers a broad spectrum. In John Chapter 2, changing water into wine was a "sign" - the same Greek word. Since John 20:30-31 says that these "signs" are so that we believe and have life, this Woman is one thing to show another. Our Lord changing water to wine was the "sign", but it mean going from outside waters of purification to inward LIFE. And the "sign" is GREAT. What is "great" in the Bible. Why, another WOMAN - New Jerusalem: "And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God" (Revelation 21:10)

"In Heaven". The heavens are connected to the earth by RULE. Heaven is God's THRONE - not God's House, as some say. John Baptist and our Lord Jesus offer the "Kingdom (out) OF Heaven" to Israel first. The Woman is heavenly in nature. She brings heavenly rule to earth. Her Man-Child will RULE. She has a "crown". A crown is for ruling. It has 12 "stars" - heavenly rule. Abraham, who was promised the "Gates of his enemies" will have "seed as the stars of heaven". In resurrection the Church has "celestial glory". Satan, who was first governor of earth is a "star". Our Lord Jesus, son of KING David is "the bright and morning Star".

"A Woman". This Woman is a MOTHER. She has three seeds. All three are connected to God. Galatians 4:26 says that the Mother of US all is "Jerusalem above". Galatians 4 is speaking of both Israelite and Believer. Revelation 12 has "those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ (believer)" AND "those who keep the commandments of God (Jewish Remnant)". New Jerusalem has "Walls" based on the 12 Apostles (believers) and "Gates" (Israel). New Jerusalem is then DOUBLY a Woman. She is "Mother of us ALL" (Believer and Israelite) AND she is the Bride of Christ. This is the second time in the sentence that the Woman is inferred to be New Jerusalem.

"Clothed with the sun". A garment in Parable is one's Works (Rev.19:8). And our Lord is the "Sun of righteousness" (Mal.4:2). The clothes of the Woman are Christ's Righteousness. New Jerusalem "has the glory of God" - not the glory of men. Christ establishes righteousness before the Father, and the Father IMPUTES IT to the Church. In Josephs dream in Genesis 37 the "sun" is Jacob, which means "crook" or "supplanter", and he bows to a star. But here, the Woman's expression is Christ and His established righteousness UNDER LAW and ABOVE LAW. Jesus kept the Law in total (without fault), and He goes over and above Law in OBEDIENCE to the Father.

"The Moon under her feet". The sun was the greater light to rule the Day, while the moon was the lesser light to rule the night. The night is when our Lord Jesus is NOT present (Jn.9:4). From Adam to Abraham and Jacob the Patriarchs were God's light and testimony on an earth ruled by darkness. From Moses to Jeremiah Israel was God's testimony and light in a dark world. From Pentecost to the subjugation of the saints by the Beast in Revelation 13:7, the Church is God's light and testimony in a dark world. God always maintained His testimony on earth by faithful men. But its glory is reflected. It is a moon which must reflect the light of the Sun. But the feet of the woman speak of RULE. Earth is God's FOOTSTOOL, and God has joined Himself to men to RULE. But do we rule men in this age. No! We war against "the powers of darkness" (Luke 22:53, Acts 26:18, Ephesians 6:12 and Colossians 1:13). "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

"Upon her Head a crown of 12 stars". Abraham is promised "seed as the sand of the sea shore" AND "seed as the stars of heaven" (Heb.11:12). His seed will "possess the Gates of his enemies". "Gates" in Parable are where the Elders of the city gathered to rule and judge. God raises up Israel first and they live alongside, but not among, the Nations who are typified by the "sea" (Ezek.26:3-5). But when Christ comes, He promises not only the Kingdom of Israel, but the Kingdom of the HEAVENS. A new birth is needed - one from above (Jn.3:3-5 - lit. Gk.). The calling "heavenly" (Heb.3:1). Israel reject the call to be "stars", and so God goes to the Gentiles with His "heavenly calling" and citizenship. The Church is born and based upon 12 Apostles. And New Jerusalem, which is a Woman, will "reign with Christ forever and ever (Rev.22:5).

God's plan with man on earth is to have A Woman.

1. It is not good that a Man be alone - and Jesus is the Chiefest of men.
2. This Woman is to display God, so New Jerusalem, the chiefest of Women "has the glory of God"
3. This Woman is to be a Mother and bring forth a Man-Child to rule the Nations - the Overcomers of the Church
4. This Woman is to be a Mother and bring forth an Israeli Remnant for the restoration of Israel
5. This Woman is to be a "help meet" to Jesus. This means "a companion up to the standard of" Jesus, typified by Eve

After the revelation of Jesus Christ the innocent giving His Life for the Woman, this Woman is the grandest revelation of the Bible. In Galatians 4 this Woman, Jerusalem Above, is incomplete. She is still being built. In Revelation 12 she is complete in the TWO REMNANTS. In Revelation 21 she is complete in all - New Jerusalem, the consummation of God's plan on earth with men.

She embodies all God's plan. She gives Christ joy, compaionship and satisfies Him.

They don't have a temple and if the AC builds one it will be his temple. There is no requirement for the AC to be Jewish. I think it will be a fallen angel pretending to be God/Christ.

As seen in —Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

1) a sign, mark, token
1a) that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from
others and is known

The Wonder is pointing out where Satan the Dragon resides, in Heaven. Satan is designated as the Dragon Beast here.



Same as above.



This is always Israel, it is never the Church in this specific mention.



This is only referencing the Genesis 37:9 scripture that points out the Woman is code for Israel, as in the Sun stands-in Jacob and the Moon is a stand-in for Rachel & Leah. The 12 Stars = the 12 tribes of Israel.

Its really that simple.

I did not say that it would be a requirement....I said that most scholars believe that only a JEW would be allowed to speak or teach in a JEWISH Temple.

How long do you think that it would take to put up a Temple where the Dome of the Rock is now if it were destroyed????

Remember, the 1st Tabernacle was a TENT so I am thinking that it would take maybe a week.

And I do not agrre......the A/C will be a HUMAN MAN and so will the False Prophet.

The Antichrist is the false prophet.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received
the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Here we read of the second beast, who performs miracles in the sight of the first beast and performing those miracles in order to deceive the people!

Paul's Antichrist was called the man of sin and he is described as doing the same things for the same reason as the false prophet:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

Lying wonders is the same as deceiving miracles.

False prophet and the man of sin are the same person, the Antichrist.





Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

These horns are little horns of a young lamb which is a direct reference to the little horn Daniel wrote of who is also the one we know as the Antichrist.

G721
????´??
arnion
ar-nee'-on
Diminutive from G704; a lambkin: - lamb.
Total KJV occurrences: 30


The little horn of Daniel is commonly believed to be the AC John wrote about and in Revelation there is a person with two little horns who appears after the ten horned beast just as the little horn in Daniel appears after the ten horned beast. Clearly the same person is in mind here.


Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.
Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.

Can the woman of Revelation 12 be specifically 'Mary' as a certain religion teaches being 'assumed' into Heaven? Some questions to ask:

That is not correct my friend.

I for ONE do not agree with your interpretations.

From what I have read you are very competent and intelligent which makes what I am going to say difficult, but when anyone comes from the "PRETERIST" position of theology.....it allways leads to error in the end.

In other words, when you get the foundation wrong....the roof will not fit.

Most Christians would be shocked to hear that Christ’s return, the resurrection of the dead, the Day of Judgment, and the new heavens and new earth occurred nearly 2000 years ago.

I say this to you with all due respect but when you post the conclusions you post, it is hard to nail down what you are saying, Since preterist illogic and connection of unrelated scriptures is so far out, it is not worth the time or effort necessary to explore the confusion to prove the method wrong: you do not seem to deal with passages at hand, but instead attack them by any possible outside angle.

The Preterist theology's corruption of scripture is so erroneous and twisted that most Christians would be unable to follow their arguments and might conclude the Bible is hopelessly confusing and in fact that is exactly what I see here.

I would love to talk the Revelation with anyone.....but that is absolutely impossible to do from a "Historic or Preterist" position.

It is correct and I proved it was. Paul's man of sin is the AC and performs miracles that deceive people and so does the false prophet making them the same person.

Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.
Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.

Thank you for your reply. I realize that my explanations were brief. But I could hardly be accused of the Preterist position because of my explanation and placing of the verse staring with "AND". I said it followed Chapter 4 verse 1 - "After this .... ". Now the word "After" denotes a time AFTER the Church at Laodicea. And Laodicea has Christ standing at their door and knocking. That is, without even taking the historical sequence of the Churches, as some expositors do, Laodicea has the return of Christ already accomplished. "After this ...." must be the time AFTER 1st Thessalonains 4:15-18 - the closing years of the age.

But if this is disputed, I proffer the previous three Churches, all of which are promised the second coming of Christ (2.25, 3:3, 3:10-11).

But I take your view seriously. If you saw my writings this way, others might too. And this is not what I wanted to transmit. Thank you.

Thank you for your reply. I realize that my explanations were brief. But I could hardly be accused of the Preterist position because of my explanation and placing of the verse staring with "AND". I said it followed Chapter 4 verse 1 - "After this .... ". Now the word "After" denotes a time AFTER the Church at Laodicea. And Laodicea has Christ standing at their door and knocking. That is, without even taking the historical sequence of the Churches, as some expositors do, Laodicea has the return of Christ already accomplished. "After this ...." must be the time AFTER 1st Thessalonains 4:15-18 - the closing years of the age.

But if this is disputed, I proffer the previous three Churches, all of which are promised the second coming of Christ (2.25, 3:3, 3:10-11).

But I take your view seriously. If you saw my writings this way, others might too. And this is not what I wanted to transmit. Thank you.

I am sorry my friend but you did not prove any such thing.

You posted a couple of Scriptures which contextually do not correspond to each other and do not prove that the A/C and false Prophet are the same person.

Honestly, in all my years I have never heard anyone propose such a thing.

The 10 horned beast of Daniel , the "Little horn" is the A/C. That is true.

The Horned beast of Revelation 13:11 does NOT HAVE 10 HORNS.

Revelation 13:1.........
"And I beheld ANOTHER beast coming up out of the earth; and he had TWO horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

Clearly, ANOTHER means a different one...not the same and this 2nd beast has TWO (2) not 10 horns are you posted.

1st beast is the A/C!
2nd beast is the False Prophet!

I take "AFTER AFTER THIS" of Rev. 4:1 differently than do you.

I believe that (meta tauta) used twice here in verse 1. It both opens and closes the 1st verse. This repetition certainly lends great emphasis and importance to this verse and apparently, John was concerned that "Amillennialists" would miss it...so he used the same phrase twice.

"I saw and behold a door was set open in heaven " and the next thing John saw was God on the throne and the church gathered around Him.

To me, that is the Rapture of the church and the evidence is it being in the throne room with God.

I for ONE do not agree with your interpretations.

From what I have read you are very competent and intelligent which makes what I am going to say difficult, but when anyone comes from the "PRETERIST" position of theology.....it allways leads to error in the end.

In other words, when you get the foundation wrong....the roof will not fit.

Most Christians would be shocked to hear that Christ’s return, the resurrection of the dead, the Day of Judgment, and the new heavens and new earth occurred nearly 2000 years ago.

I say this to you with all due respect but when you post the conclusions you post, it is hard to nail down what you are saying, Since preterist illogic and connection of unrelated scriptures is so far out, it is not worth the time or effort necessary to explore the confusion to prove the method wrong: you do not seem to deal with passages at hand, but instead attack them by any possible outside angle.

The Preterist theology's corruption of scripture is so erroneous and twisted that most Christians would be unable to follow their arguments and might conclude the Bible is hopelessly confusing and in fact that is exactly what I see here.

I would love to talk the Revelation with anyone.....but that is absolutely impossible to do from a "Historic or Preterist" position.

Regarding 'meta tauta' I only see it used once translated as 'after this' or 'after these things'

The Antichrist is the false prophet.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received
the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Here we read of the second beast, who performs miracles in the sight of the first beast and performing those miracles in order to deceive the people!

Paul's Antichrist was called the man of sin and he is described as doing the same things for the same reason as the false prophet:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

Lying wonders is the same as deceiving miracles.

False prophet and the man of sin are the same person, the Antichrist.

Hello ewq1938!

First beast = antichrist

Second beast = False prophet

See these two words at both the beginning of verse 1 and at the end of verse 1 (meta tauta):

Revelation 4:1 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) [at TOP and at BOTTOM of verse]


____________

Notice also the word (in 4:1 ^ ) for "I will SHEW [G1166]" and how that connects back with what 1:1 had said [and 22:6 also], "... TO SHEW [G1166] unto His servants things which must come to pass in quickness [noun]" (not things which would transpire over some 2000 yrs).

Nope.

First beast = global kingdom

Second beast = AC.