Principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world

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Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,386
558
113
#41
🤔 as a Protestant I don’t think it is that big of deal. Even the prince of preachers-Spurgeon Smoked cigars. His “boiler room” and sermons became very effective and famous. I think we forget these men were human some times and struggled with sin like every one else. These things were also very cultural back then before political correctness pervaded our societies. God still used these men imperfect as they were to bring many to Christ and strengthen Christians faith.
How does one drink 48 ounces of beer in the morning without getting a buzz from it?
There's only one way I know... an alcoholic.
 
F

FollowingtheWay

Guest
#42
How does one drink 48 ounces of beer in the morning without getting a buzz from it?
There's only one way I know... an alcoholic.
How many preachers or those giving pastoral care have a secret life of Pornography? I bet it would shock you. How many allegedly clean and “sanctified” Christians by all action and appearance are actually internally struggling with heart sins of lust , rage, envy, contempt, coveting, idolatry etc? Sin is sin weather it shows up as alcoholism or is hidden in the heart. At least CS Lewis didn’t conceal his sin and if what he went through was true I can see why his flesh craved what it did for instance WW1 destroyed more than mens bodies, for many who survived it The experiences fractured and often destroyed souls as well.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
6,285
1,804
113
#43
While too many nurture the lie-baby to maturity, the best course of treatment of the lie is to abort it.
Jacob and Esau came to mind while considering the treatment of the lie in comparison to the truth with regard to their perspective representations of faith. Jacob, 'the heel grabber' and 'the supplanter,' took Esau by the heel and supplanted him. And this is the exact picture of casting down vain imaginations and everything that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bringing it to the obedience of Christ.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,671
3,238
113
#44
How many preachers or those giving pastoral care have a secret life of Pornography? I bet it would shock you. How many allegedly clean and “sanctified” Christians by all action and appearance are actually internally struggling with heart sins of lust , rage, envy, contempt, coveting, idolatry etc? Sin is sin weather it shows up as alcoholism or is hidden in the heart. At least CS Lewis didn’t conceal his sin and if what he went through was true I can see why his flesh craved what it did for instance WW1 destroyed more than mens bodies, for many who survived it The experiences fractured and often destroyed souls as well.
I would never condemn C. S. Lewis or anyone else for being a sinner. The problem is when we idolize any human being. There are certain people who are idolized within the Christian community, Lewis is one of them, but there are many more. The way we know someone is an idol and not just a respected person, is when you find out they're they're living like they're not even a believer, or they're teaching false or unsound doctrine, but you refuse to acknowledge they're not qualified and still look to them like they're some great Christian. There are many examples of this.
 
F

FollowingtheWay

Guest
#45
I would never condemn C. S. Lewis or anyone else for being a sinner. The problem is when we idolize any human being. There are certain people who are idolized within the Christian community, Lewis is one of them, but there are many more. The way we know someone is an idol and not just a respected person, is when you find out they're they're living like they're not even a believer, or they're teaching false or unsound doctrine, but you refuse to acknowledge they're not qualified and still look to them like they're some great Christian. There are many examples of this.
so for me personally I don’t see CS Lewis the model of Christian maturity. Nor do I think most Christians actually see him that way. I see this guy as an example of how God moves. How God can take a man so broken, so fractured, so dead to the things of God. A former materialist athiest who’s soul was broken, fractured beyond human hope. A man who picked every other possible path in life besides life with God. And God shows up in this man’s life and reaches him. I think it’s by this we can look to CSLewis and say if God brought that hopeless man out of the darkness then no matter what I’m going through as a Christian God can reach me through my issues as well. It’s a message of Hope and redemption that cs Lewis’ writings help us. So being CSLewis was in the occult for a while and that he was in the dark for so long he had the ability to see how Satan and the demonic moved in his life for so many years and I believe that was the basis of screw tape. He observed how the demonic oppressed him so. He had an uncanny ability to see into the spiritual realm and through his writings we can see just about every temptation he faced and how it might relate to our temptations where God is in relation to those things and where Satan might be lurking as well. We can learn through CSLewis how to avoid the pitfalls he fell into, and goodness there were many in his life. Also Aslan the lion was meant to be an allegorical view of the Character of Christ.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,261
983
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Oregon
cfbac.org
#46
.
â—Ź Eph 2:2-3 . . As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in
which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the
ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who
are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the
cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the
rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the
sinful nature spoken of in that Ephesians passage is propagated by men.
Oh? From whence did Eve get it?

She was already alive and fully constructed with material taken from Adam's
body prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after
his wife was already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass
the fallen nature to her via reproduction.

In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I
seriously doubt it because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she
did, nothing happened. She remained just as shameless in the buff as
before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she began to feel exposed; so
I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far more serious than the
chemistry of that fruit.

If Eve's fallen condition wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to Adam's body,
then what? Well; obviously the Serpent did it to them, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev
20:2)

The ruler of the kingdom of the air-- i.e. the spirit world --has the power of
death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the
human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and
Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to
cover up their pelvic areas.

This power of death allowed the Devil is apparently an absolute that could
only be overturned by Christ's crucifixion.

â—Ź John 12:31-33 . . Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this
world shall be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all
men to myself.

â—Ź Heb 2:14 . . Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their
humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of
death; that is: the Devil.

That is at least one good reason why folks need to RSVP God about His son's
crucifixion to avoid leaving this life under the Devil's supervision. They've got
to get that arrangement dissolved now, while an opportunity for liberty is on
the table.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,828
13,449
113
#47
How does one drink 48 ounces of beer in the morning without getting a buzz from it?
There's only one way I know... an alcoholic.
And that makes his theology bad?

Nobody is suggesting that we follow his example.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,702
5,578
113
62
#50
By that logic, it would make everyone's theology suspect...including our own.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,672
594
113
#51
Wow.. if I had asked this and not truly understanding..so far I would be more confused then ever. This is all over the place and allot of "videos". Best to ask where you know its a place they believe in the supernatural. Allot of believers (if you asked me) walk by sight or in the natural praise God. We walk by faith we live by faith we walk in the spirit.. so forth so on. So ask the Father about this KNOW He will tell you and He will back up what He says by His word.
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
270
64
28
#52
.
â—Ź Eph 2:2-3 . . As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in
which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the
ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who
are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the
cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the
rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.


It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the
sinful nature spoken of in that Ephesians passage is propagated by men.
Oh? From whence did Eve get it?


She was already alive and fully constructed with material taken from Adam's
body prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after
his wife was already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass
the fallen nature to her via reproduction.


In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I
seriously doubt it because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she
did, nothing happened. She remained just as shameless in the buff as
before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she began to feel exposed; so
I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far more serious than the
chemistry of that fruit.


If Eve's fallen condition wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to Adam's body,
then what? Well; obviously the Serpent did it to them, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev
20:2)


The ruler of the kingdom of the air-- i.e. the spirit world --has the power of
death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the
human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and
Eph 2:2.


The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to
cover up their pelvic areas.


This power of death allowed the Devil is apparently an absolute that could
only be overturned by Christ's crucifixion.


â—Ź John 12:31-33 . . Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this
world shall be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all
men to myself.


â—Ź Heb 2:14 . . Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their
humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of
death; that is: the Devil.


That is at least one good reason why folks need to RSVP God about His son's
crucifixion to avoid leaving this life under the Devil's supervision. They've got
to get that arrangement dissolved now, while an opportunity for liberty is on
the table.
_
To me Sin is disobedience of Gods Word, there was only one command and one sin that could be committed in Eden, and that was Adam was not to eat of that tree, I totally agree with the concept that there was no chemical reaction with the fruit for it was the indiscretion of Gods Word that opened their eyes, and again agree Eve wasn't exposed for she was not under the command Adam was, but when Adam ate of, he sinned and now sin had entered the world.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned 13. for before the law was given, sin was in the world.

So Eve's eyes were opened after she saw Adam disobey God, and no doubt Satan's were too, as they both played a role and understood how Adam transgressed.

I read scripture rather literally so when I read that sin entered the world through Adam, and then when people in general are saying that sin entered the world through Satan, my brain just sees it as a flat out contradiction of Gods Word.

Another good reason why we need to RSVP God about His son's crucifixion, is we have also transgressed through Adam and we have to get that arrangement fixed now, while an opportunity for liberty is on the table. :)
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
270
64
28
#53
By that logic, it would make everyone's theology suspect...including our own.
Hehe, well I actually totally agree all commentators are fallible men and make mistakes including me, so all theology is suspect, like Spurgeon and his crazy Calvinistic bent, Spurgeon also wrote some good stuff which I get some good edification from, so Il read anything and not throw the baby out all the time.
 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
222
83
28
#55
Ephesians 6:12
King James Version

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Are the powers and rulers of the darkness of this world fallen angels serving under Satan? If so, what do they do to influence us or affect us? Is that something we can even quantify or discuss? How do we wrestle against them? Just looking to learn more as this interests me.

Also there's something I don't understand, if they are fallen angels how are they acting on us? Don't we pretty much do all the bad stuff in the world ourselves? Or do they act on us in such a way that it's imperceptible, influencing us somehow? I just don't get it. Maybe it's such a big thing that they do that I don't even notice it since it's always the same. Maybe things are different in heaven and you just feel better! Just thoughts, I don't know if that's true obviously.
Read the context of that verse. God through Paul tells us to put on his power through Jesus by the Spirit like armor to defend ourselves against the devil and his attacks and influences. John tells us in his first letter that there are three influences in our lives making us sin: our own flesh or sinful nature, the devil, and the tempting world around us. At the end of that Ephesians 5:10-20 passage, he calls us to pray, the action that God will use to enable us to be rescued from all of the three influences.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,980
2,903
113
#56
Just in case your genuinely enquiring some people like myself have an alternate view as in regards to the principalities, powers and spiritual wickedness in high places, Demons were in the gospel accounts but they were cast out, they were swept clean from this world for a time, so our fight while not a physical battle or against flesh and blood, is a spiritual battle against the rulers of this world who are in darkness and ignore the morals set forth in the bible.

The government who supposedly represent the main cross stream of people where I live, have introduced same sex marriages etc etc, Evolution is taught in schools and Colleges, those who go through the system seem to be the majority entering into power, the animosity towards God seems to grow with each generation.

In some the mocking of not believing in evolution causes doubts, its not some telepathy from an invisible being putting doubts in your head, its your own weakness.

Which is why we need to equip the armor of God to put 100% trust into God and believe in Salvation for example, to enable us to quench the darts of the wicked one(the head of those who have not yet seen the light, those under darkness)etc etc.

I guess Im just trying to say its humans or the world system sinful man has put in place, which also is ungodly by default which is what we battle against. And not everyone believes its some Demon putting thoughts into our brains because we are so good and perfect they cant possibly be our own thoughts yada yada
Satan is the god of the world system. The whole world is in his control. (1 John 5:19). Our struggle is not against flesh and blood as you say. However, the world system is not the creation of man.
Luke 4:
5Then the devil led Him up to a high place and showed Him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6“I will give You authority over all these kingdoms and all their glory,” he said. “For it has been relinquished to me, and I can give it to anyone I wish. 7So if You worship me, it will all be Yours.”

Adam relinquished his God-given authority to Satan in Eden. Satan is the real enemy. Thoughts may be something we've chosen to think or lies from the enemy of our souls. (2 Corinthians 10:5). I'd advise you to read "War on the Saints" by Jesse Penn-Lewis. It's an eye opener.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,613
1,479
113
#57
To me Sin is disobedience of Gods Word,
The word records this:

19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

Some, by faith, can eat anything. To others it is sin to eat certain things, by faith. By the judgement of God they are both right.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,426
113
#58
it seems to me that there is little influence in our world for God, and Satan has become powerful in every single part of our lives. It is difficult to find a fiction book that doesn't promote Satan. Our newspapers are full of Satan, with pages of sports that are not about fun but about competition based on who is better. There is always an article about looking to the stars instead of looking to Christ for guidance. Pictures of women are often about women promoting their sexuality.

I was told that the words boyfriend and girlfriend now means sexually active people.

God's ways has even been stripped from our food. Our food animals are created to eat from pastures, now they are caged and fed man producred food so they are not healthy. Doctors have found that such meat is unhealthy for us, and natural food is very expensive.

Almost everyone feeds their mind with TV, where satan works even in some of the 'religious programs.
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
270
64
28
#59
Satan is the god of the world system.
Agreed
The whole world is in his control. (1 John 5:19).
Disagree,
Our struggle is not against flesh and blood as you say. However, the world system is not the creation of man.
I see Satan as a type or a pattern in the New testament, like Abraham is our father for those who believe he is a pattern of faith, Satan is the father of those who do not believe. In other words the Pharisees who should have accepted Jesus and His Word like Abraham and Moses would have, they have done the same thing Satan has by rejecting Jesus the Son of God, the Living Word.

The thing with patterns is we can learn so much of what not to do, for example Satan fell in love with the world, for example by the multitude of his trading he became rich and sitting on earthly thrones he enjoyed the pleasures of this world.

Anyway judgment was passed upon Satan, and without going into the unpardonable sin, which is the rejection of Jesus Christ, When the Holy Spirit was to come one of the things it was going to convict the world of was judgment John 16:11 "of judgment because the ruler of this world is judged"

Its not that big of a deal but I see people falling into the same sin as Satan, not Satan making people to sin and oppose God against their wills. For example when the Lord rebuked Peter and said get behind me Satan, He was not talking to Satan he was talking to Peter who was opposing Gods will(albeit in ignorance) and Peter would have went to himself (far out I better just trust in the Lord and His will and not put my own thoughts and feelings into the equation)

Luke 4:
5Then the devil led Him up to a high place and showed Him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6“I will give You authority over all these kingdoms and all their glory,” he said. “For it has been relinquished to me, and I can give it to anyone I wish. 7So if You worship me, it will all be Yours.”

Adam relinquished his God-given authority to Satan in Eden. Satan is the real enemy. Thoughts may be something we've chosen to think or lies from the enemy of our souls. (2 Corinthians 10:5). I'd advise you to read "War on the Saints" by Jesse Penn-Lewis. It's an eye opener.
At the moment Im going to disagree I dont see Satan as the arch rival to God contending for souls, I just see him as another created being just like the other angels and all of mankind, who is defeated and weak and currently bound by the strong man, The fall was meant to happen God planned it all to happen this way. So I don't think it was planned for Adam to rule the earth in sinless perfection, it was and is planned for Jesus the second Adam to rule and we all with Him.
 

williamjordan

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2015
495
122
43
#60
An excerpt from the NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/24/books/c-s-lewis-sins-and-all.html

In the United States, among Lewis's Protestant devotees, there is an analogous awkwardness about his passion for alcohol and tobacco. Some of Lewis's American publishers actually ask for references to drinking and smoking to be removed from his work, and one has the strong feeling that this is not so much because they themselves disapprove of the activities as because they need a Lewis who was, against all evidence, a nonsmoker and a lemonade drinker.

You see, many applaud this man who wrote stories about witches, & other mythical animals from old religions to show a "godly" storyline about good vs. evil.
It seems alright in the minds of many to write this way, "because he is a christian".
Since Harry Potter & Lord of the Rings are about good vs. evil, maybe we should put them in the "christian" category as well.:rolleyes:
You know, funny little thing has occured...

All through high school and college, I was never really much of an “outspoken” individual. But then when I entered into the work force, I “spruced” out of my bubble quite a bit. For the last 10-15 years, I have considered myself “extroverted.” But something curious always stood out to me as somewhat odd, though I could never put my finger on why: All the extroverts never laughed at my pun or wit, and I couldn't quite figure out why.

Well, upon further reflection, perhaps I now have the answer: Perhaps I'm a crossbreed between an “introvert” and an “extrovert.” I say that, because I tend to be self-reserved in my thoughts, ideas, and opinions. But I am also the “outspoken” introvert. I will say what no one “extrovert” would dare say; even if it lands me in a bit of trouble.

So with that said, where do you think my comments are about to go? Should fingers “talk” (and I emplore you, they can), what do you think mine would be saying right now? And no, I don't mean sign language. I'm not that cruel. I'm simply saying, if they were to type out words on a keyboard (in the same fashion I'm doing right now), what would they say? What would they tell you? Here's a clue: You're insane.

Of all the things to nit-pick about, you chose the fact that he's a smoker? How many theologians do you now have to throw out the window? Be consistent about it, at least. The fact he smokes is the reason you discredit what he has to say? Yeah... about that.