What if God had written IN STONE?
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what i am saying is: i am only condemned because of Adam, when i entered this world.
but remove that Sin, i am able to naturally fulfill the Moral Law.
that's why we need Jesus, because, we're born condemned.
i love the fact God died for me and gave me Salvation.
but that Plan, that makes me CURSED from inception of conception, is one i wished never existed and find it as unjust.
but, it is what it is and i must comply with God!
but remove that Sin, i am able to naturally fulfill the Moral Law.
that's why we need Jesus, because, we're born condemned.
i love the fact God died for me and gave me Salvation.
but that Plan, that makes me CURSED from inception of conception, is one i wished never existed and find it as unjust.
but, it is what it is and i must comply with God!
I think it might be time to go back to the original op and not be led away from the original intent of that op by smoke and mirrors of the religious kind
The question becomes are you trusting in yourself to keep all the 10 commandments (because you believe they are separate from the rest and say Jesus taught them) and present yourself in some way superior and worthy of salvation in Christ OR having accepted Christ and His work on your behalf, you understand that you can never ever reach the perfection that is God's holiness and you now rest in Christ, count yourself dead to sin, as per the Bible's teaching, and rejoice that Jesus had fulfilled all the commandments for all time and purchased your salvation through His blood?
The question becomes are you trusting in yourself to keep all the 10 commandments (because you believe they are separate from the rest and say Jesus taught them) and present yourself in some way superior and worthy of salvation in Christ OR having accepted Christ and His work on your behalf, you understand that you can never ever reach the perfection that is God's holiness and you now rest in Christ, count yourself dead to sin, as per the Bible's teaching, and rejoice that Jesus had fulfilled all the commandments for all time and purchased your salvation through His blood?
original OP (post 1)
the op posed the question: WHAT IF GOD HAD WRITTEN IT IN STONE
"Braweh, post: 5190652, member: 326857"]Would that convince the doubting faithless of the permanence of His declaration of expectations for mankind? Ever so sadly not.
Modern perspectives would lead many to believe that the 10 Commandments were written in stone due to some primitive caveman evolutionary gobbledy-gook. "Well it's because that's all they had back then!", they surmise.
The fact is that everything God has ever done has had deep symbolic meaning beneath the obvious surface purposes.
The 10 Commandments written in stone could not have been a more obvious declaration from God Almighty that they were intended to stand forever and never, ever be changed. Just as God is unchanging, so are His Laws and the 10 Commandments are also a moral structure of just who God is. It's no coincidence that Jesus Christ is referred to as the rock; the solid, unchanging, immovable foundation of Truth and all things holy and just.
The 10 Commandments were given to all mankind and Christ reiterated their importance by teaching them all, obeying them all and made certain that His followers understood to continue to keep them after His Crucifixion - which is exactly what they did. It would only make sense that He would do so as He was the Creator of them.
Why then do we have so many naysayers today who make such ridiculous claims as 'You will be damned to hell if you obey the Commandments!' and 'Obedience to the Commandments is "works salvation"!'? The Bible told us very clearly that we would have grievous wolves come into the churches and lead many astray. We have been told that the blind leaders of the blind lead many into the ditch. We have also been told by Jesus Himself that the road to salvation is a narrow one and many, many would be led down the wide road to destruction.
The 10 Commandments are now, and always will be, applicable to all professed Christians and they are quite literally the very foundation of the Christian Faith.
the op posed the question: WHAT IF GOD HAD WRITTEN IT IN STONE
"Braweh, post: 5190652, member: 326857"]Would that convince the doubting faithless of the permanence of His declaration of expectations for mankind? Ever so sadly not.
Modern perspectives would lead many to believe that the 10 Commandments were written in stone due to some primitive caveman evolutionary gobbledy-gook. "Well it's because that's all they had back then!", they surmise.
The fact is that everything God has ever done has had deep symbolic meaning beneath the obvious surface purposes.
The 10 Commandments written in stone could not have been a more obvious declaration from God Almighty that they were intended to stand forever and never, ever be changed. Just as God is unchanging, so are His Laws and the 10 Commandments are also a moral structure of just who God is. It's no coincidence that Jesus Christ is referred to as the rock; the solid, unchanging, immovable foundation of Truth and all things holy and just.
The 10 Commandments were given to all mankind and Christ reiterated their importance by teaching them all, obeying them all and made certain that His followers understood to continue to keep them after His Crucifixion - which is exactly what they did. It would only make sense that He would do so as He was the Creator of them.
Why then do we have so many naysayers today who make such ridiculous claims as 'You will be damned to hell if you obey the Commandments!' and 'Obedience to the Commandments is "works salvation"!'? The Bible told us very clearly that we would have grievous wolves come into the churches and lead many astray. We have been told that the blind leaders of the blind lead many into the ditch. We have also been told by Jesus Himself that the road to salvation is a narrow one and many, many would be led down the wide road to destruction.
The 10 Commandments are now, and always will be, applicable to all professed Christians and they are quite literally the very foundation of the Christian Faith.
Do they believe Jesus ... is God?
There's a difference.
Jesus tells the Jews in John 4:24 that if they do not believe that He is God ("I AM"), that they will die in their sins.
We don't say we believe 'in' tree or 'in' sky or grass. Yes, we believe they exist, but there is a profound connotation to saying we believe 'in' Jesus Christ. When we believe 'in' Jesus Christ, we are not simply believing He existed at some point way back in antiquity. We are declaring that we believe in His divinity, and that's not just the belief that He came from God - as if He is some close friend, neighbor or relative of God.
Jesus IS God.
When we say we believe in Jesus, we are declaring we believe He is God.
And as you just clarified, Jews do not believe that. They may claim He is Messiah or Son of God, but they do not believe He is God.
The Bible makes very clear that Jesus is God many times, many ways throughout.
Judaism just is not Christianity. And Judeo-Christian is a total contradiction; it is an oxymoron.
There's a difference.
Jesus tells the Jews in John 4:24 that if they do not believe that He is God ("I AM"), that they will die in their sins.
We don't say we believe 'in' tree or 'in' sky or grass. Yes, we believe they exist, but there is a profound connotation to saying we believe 'in' Jesus Christ. When we believe 'in' Jesus Christ, we are not simply believing He existed at some point way back in antiquity. We are declaring that we believe in His divinity, and that's not just the belief that He came from God - as if He is some close friend, neighbor or relative of God.
Jesus IS God.
When we say we believe in Jesus, we are declaring we believe He is God.
And as you just clarified, Jews do not believe that. They may claim He is Messiah or Son of God, but they do not believe He is God.
The Bible makes very clear that Jesus is God many times, many ways throughout.
Judaism just is not Christianity. And Judeo-Christian is a total contradiction; it is an oxymoron.
Exactly. God, made it so we could not live without Him, if we want Eternal Life.
interesting, that the Angels had Eternal Life, and some found it revolting.
they had a Will and knew what real Paradise was all about.
and chose, this is not what we want.
just interesting how we see the views of God's Creations.
interesting, that the Angels had Eternal Life, and some found it revolting.
they had a Will and knew what real Paradise was all about.
and chose, this is not what we want.
just interesting how we see the views of God's Creations.
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Many Jews have become followers of their Messiah. Gentiles do not become Jews...but all believers become followers of Christ if indeed they are
your continued speculation on the salvation of those who understand we are not followers of the law and will never keep the 10 commandments to the satisfaction of God who is holy, is indicative of your own inability to grasp all that Jesus did for you on the cross.
When Christ says 'IT IS FINISHED', then it is finished. I said a long long time ago, in this very forum, that the 10 commandments do actually sum up the 'new' commandments Jesus spoke.
Do you not see the obvious contradiction in what you say above? If a Jew concedes Jesus is the Messiah, then they have accepted the fact He is indeed their Savior.
your continued speculation on the salvation of those who understand we are not followers of the law and will never keep the 10 commandments to the satisfaction of God who is holy, is indicative of your own inability to grasp all that Jesus did for you on the cross.
When Christ says 'IT IS FINISHED', then it is finished. I said a long long time ago, in this very forum, that the 10 commandments do actually sum up the 'new' commandments Jesus spoke.
Do you not see the obvious contradiction in what you say above? If a Jew concedes Jesus is the Messiah, then they have accepted the fact He is indeed their Savior.
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Guessing this is to me?
I've made my position clear repeatedly throughout the last 31 pages.
Let's look at what the Bible has to say about it:
"He that hath My Commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him. ... and we will come unto him and make Our abode with him."
Jn. 14:21, 23
Jesus will not manifest Himself to those who do not love Him or keep His (the Father's) Commandments, nor will they come to live with him as the Holy Spirit.
"If ye keep My Commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's Commandments, and abide in His love."
Jn. 15:10
Jesus kept the same Commandments that He expects us to keep and we are to keep them and walk as He walked.
Matt. 23:1-3
1 Jn. 2:6
Jesus' followers understood this very clearly.
Luke 23:54-56
I've made my position clear repeatedly throughout the last 31 pages.
Let's look at what the Bible has to say about it:
"He that hath My Commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him. ... and we will come unto him and make Our abode with him."
Jn. 14:21, 23
Jesus will not manifest Himself to those who do not love Him or keep His (the Father's) Commandments, nor will they come to live with him as the Holy Spirit.
"If ye keep My Commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's Commandments, and abide in His love."
Jn. 15:10
Jesus kept the same Commandments that He expects us to keep and we are to keep them and walk as He walked.
Matt. 23:1-3
1 Jn. 2:6
Jesus' followers understood this very clearly.
Luke 23:54-56
but you cannot seem to conceive of the fact He has accomplished your salvation by HIS perfection and no contribution from you whatsoever
Jesus is the eternal Son of God and God IS. The Holy Spirit was sent to earth to dwell in believers when Jesus went back to the Father...also our Father because Jesus is our brother + Savior.
You sound to me, like you have not actually absorbed these truths but rather agreed with what you read or heard somewhere
When Jesus is real, when a Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit, they have a LIVING faith. God is no more words on a page we are told to accept. Everything changes and we do not write or conceive of a time and a place where God is far off. He is near and we are encouraged to come to Him with boldness.
We can only do that through our living Savior and not because of some 'belief', no matter how good we think we have become.
Jesus is the eternal Son of God and God IS. The Holy Spirit was sent to earth to dwell in believers when Jesus went back to the Father...also our Father because Jesus is our brother + Savior.
You sound to me, like you have not actually absorbed these truths but rather agreed with what you read or heard somewhere
When Jesus is real, when a Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit, they have a LIVING faith. God is no more words on a page we are told to accept. Everything changes and we do not write or conceive of a time and a place where God is far off. He is near and we are encouraged to come to Him with boldness.
We can only do that through our living Savior and not because of some 'belief', no matter how good we think we have become.
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Why stop at the gospels? The rest of the New Testament was written for much of it, to CORRECT error because of those who insisted on keeping certain parts of the law, such as what you are doing. You say you know you cannot keep them perfectly...which means you cannot keep them AT ALL because if you break even the smallest part of the law, the scripture tells us we have broken ALL of it!
You try to get around this by saying the 10 commandments are separate and Jesus taught them. Is that why Jesus came to earth? Was He teaching the law that no one can keep?
Just logic alone should indicate your error but you plow on irregardless.
You try to get around this by saying the 10 commandments are separate and Jesus taught them. Is that why Jesus came to earth? Was He teaching the law that no one can keep?
Just logic alone should indicate your error but you plow on irregardless.
Sorry, but if what you're preaching were accurate, we would not have massive portions of the NT and we would especially not have 1 Jn. 3:2.
You and the others here who disagree with the OP are just saying the same things over and over in multiple different ways. Yes, I'm doing the same because none of you will accept the undeniable Scriptures I continue to present.
None of you can sweep Luke 23:54-56 under the rug. None of you have any answer as to why Jesus would teach the 10 Commandments when, as you claim, He intended Christians not to obey them literally, etc. Yet, those verses are there, they're present in every single Bible translation and you have zero response to them as proof texts in this thread.
It is what it is.
Jesus taught the 10 Commandments to all future Christians to come.
Jesus obeyed them as an example to all future Christians to come.
And Jesus' followers sealed the deal by showing that they understood that He intended for them to obey the 10 Commandments just exactly as He did.
In a court of law, that would be a closed case, but on these discussion boards it is just ignore and repeat false doctrine over and over again until the thread gets closed. I've got all the time in the world. Keep the unbiblical objections coming and I'll continue correcting with Sound Biblical Doctrine.
World without end.
You and the others here who disagree with the OP are just saying the same things over and over in multiple different ways. Yes, I'm doing the same because none of you will accept the undeniable Scriptures I continue to present.
None of you can sweep Luke 23:54-56 under the rug. None of you have any answer as to why Jesus would teach the 10 Commandments when, as you claim, He intended Christians not to obey them literally, etc. Yet, those verses are there, they're present in every single Bible translation and you have zero response to them as proof texts in this thread.
It is what it is.
Jesus taught the 10 Commandments to all future Christians to come.
Jesus obeyed them as an example to all future Christians to come.
And Jesus' followers sealed the deal by showing that they understood that He intended for them to obey the 10 Commandments just exactly as He did.
In a court of law, that would be a closed case, but on these discussion boards it is just ignore and repeat false doctrine over and over again until the thread gets closed. I've got all the time in the world. Keep the unbiblical objections coming and I'll continue correcting with Sound Biblical Doctrine.
World without end.
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Salvation is by faith alone. There is no keeping of any part of the law whatsoever.
What commandments did Jesus say we could keep to the perfection that is required by God?
are we like Christ and have become our own savior somehow?
the insistence that Christians who understand the difference between the law with its system of sacrifice, understanding that the blood of animals could never atone for sin, think we are now free to sin as we will, is not at all true. If then, that is your stance, and it certainly appears to be, you are accusing millions of believers through the centuries and you judge what you do not know.
What commandments did Jesus say we could keep to the perfection that is required by God?
are we like Christ and have become our own savior somehow?
the insistence that Christians who understand the difference between the law with its system of sacrifice, understanding that the blood of animals could never atone for sin, think we are now free to sin as we will, is not at all true. If then, that is your stance, and it certainly appears to be, you are accusing millions of believers through the centuries and you judge what you do not know.
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That only applies to those who are attempting to keep them without faith in, and reliance on, Jesus Christ.
Take another look at Jn. 14:21, 23; 1 Jn. 2:6, 1 Jn. 3:4 and James 3:2 among many others.
Was Christ's mission a failure? Did the followers in Lk. 23:54-56 just not get it after all that He did?
False.
Take another look at Jn. 14:21, 23; 1 Jn. 2:6, 1 Jn. 3:4 and James 3:2 among many others.
Was Christ's mission a failure? Did the followers in Lk. 23:54-56 just not get it after all that He did?
False.
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First off, I am not preaching and never said I was. My posts are based on both scripture and my many years as a Christian with much experience and study as well as service and testifying of my life in Christ so that others may hear and believe
you do not seem able to answer a straightforward question.
you can copy/paste the entire Bible in 23 languages and multiple versions but none of it will say what you are saying
we do not live by doing our 'best' to follow the 10 commandments
the 10 commandments condemn those outside of Christ but we are made perfect IN Christ and God does not see us as sinners anymore
This does not mean we no longer sin...it means our sins are no longer leading to death and eternal punishment
you do not post about the gospel....you have made up your own version that condemns and does not heal and lead to salvation
you do not seem able to answer a straightforward question.
you can copy/paste the entire Bible in 23 languages and multiple versions but none of it will say what you are saying
we do not live by doing our 'best' to follow the 10 commandments
the 10 commandments condemn those outside of Christ but we are made perfect IN Christ and God does not see us as sinners anymore
This does not mean we no longer sin...it means our sins are no longer leading to death and eternal punishment
you do not post about the gospel....you have made up your own version that condemns and does not heal and lead to salvation
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