Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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7thMoon

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Try clicking Nestle 1904 and see if your translations change. Maybe that is the difference.
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It was odd how KAI was used to connect a present subjunctive and a future indicative. ἀναστήσω tagged subjunctive, might be imperative/subjunctive too, only if it is not tagged. But the thing that throws me is applying it to Stephen. It doesn't work and ἔχῃ is conditional. I am satisfied but unsure about one verb.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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7thMoon said:
Rescued from death after dying. lame. Or better yet, you are rescued from some imaginary penalty caused your weak sins in comparison to the greatest of evil-doers.

You aren't rescued because you are not one of the progenies/sons of God yet, nor am I?

Even then you would have died, and were not rescued from dying.
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Thank you

You go ahead and try to stand in front of God with your weak sins.

Its obvious you are lacking what causes your death
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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7thMoon said:
It was odd how KAI was used to connect a present subjunctive and a future indicative. ἀναστήσω tagged subjunctive, might be imperative/subjunctive too, only if it is not tagged. But the thing that throws me is applying it to Stephen. It doesn't work and ἔχῃ is conditional. I am satisfied but unsure about one verb.
Click to expand...
It will be good for you to see the difference. Even though I am not a TR fan, I like Nestle 1904 because it was an "Independent Translation." Most others you get personal view points and opinions. That is not what one should be wanting for a translation. They should want the truth without bias.
 
7

7thMoon

Banned
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Apr 27, 2023
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FollowerofShiloh said:
It will be good for you to see the difference. Even though I am not a TR fan, I like Nestle 1904 because it was an "Independent Translation." Most others you get personal view points and opinions. That is not what one should be wanting for a translation. They should want the truth without bias.
Click to expand...
I was saying ἀναστήσω was tagged as indicative mood. I need to practice my linguistic vocabulary. But I was wondering if it was tagged wrong as a future verb; we all make mistakes, so I was wondering about it. Even the English of Greek is its own language.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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7thMoon said:
I was saying ἀναστήσω was tagged as indicative mood. I need to practice my linguistic vocabulary. But I was wondering if it was tagged wrong as a future verb; we all make mistakes, so I was wondering about it. Even the English of Greek is its own language.
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That is true.
 
M

MerSee

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Everlasting-Grace said:
For I have been saved by grace through faith, not of works

For not by works of righteousness which I have don but by his mercy he has saved me (titus 3)

Those who are saved who are born again do good deeds

Those who are lost can not do works of righteousness.

again, Keep trying to earn your salvation. Look at the prescriptive passages not the descriptive passage like you are doing
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Only the elect can ever be born-again.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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May 31, 2023
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MerSee said:
Only the elect can ever be born-again.
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Yes… because anyone who comes to Jesus is already of the Elect.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

- Romans 8:29-30
 
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Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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7thMoon said:
Supposedly, death. But that violates the scriptural definition of the Greek word σῴζω 'to save'.
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Why would he need to be saved from that? Didn't he say that he had the power over the death before he died? Didn't he prove that?
 
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7thMoon

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Rufus said:
Why would he need to be saved from that? Didn't he say that he had the power over the death before he died? Didn't he prove that?
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If someone is died, they are not rescued; and this what the Greek means. A rescue from death would be like Enoch. A new body in an instant.
 
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Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Everlasting-Grace said:
The word saved means to be rescued

I was rescued from the penalty of sin, and because of it I have been made alive in Christ.

Before you start attacking others. Make sure you know the meaning of the words first.
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Born again children of God have been "rescued" from far more than the penalty of sin. They have also been saved from the power of sin and eventually from the presence of it.
 
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Rufus

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[QUOTE="7thMoon, post: 5275264, member: 323176"]If someone is died, they are not rescued; and this what the Greek means. A rescue from death would be like Enoch. A new body in an instant.[/QUOTE]

Au contraire! As stated previously, Christ "rescued" himself from the tomb on the third day, didn't he? Will you be able to resuscitate yourself like that when you die?
 
Niki7

Niki7

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Feb 21, 2023
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Rufus said:
Born again children of God have been "rescued" from far more than the penalty of sin. They have also been saved from the power of sin and eventually from the presence of it.
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Huh. I thought death/utter darkness/lake of fire probably was the ultimate.

But people do still sin even though they are believers. Says so in the Bible you know. Well not the Bible that you know in particular, but the Bible.
 
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Rufus

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Niki7 said:
Huh. I thought death/utter darkness/lake of fire probably was the ultimate.

But people do still sin even though they are believers. Says so in the Bible you know. Well not the Bible that you know in particular, but the Bible.
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The bible I know in particular says:

Rom 6:14
14 For sin shall not be your master , because you are not under law, but under grace.
NIV

And, no, the passage does not teach perfectionism.

So, the ultimate benefit of salvation for you is that you escape the death penalty? While this is certainly an awesome element to salvation, I think many Christians believe the greatest aspect is being saved from the presence of sin which which makes it possible to live in God's holy, loving presence for all eternity (Rev 21:27; 22:4, 15)
 
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PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Everlasting-Grace said:
This makes no sense
Jesus told many. You do not hear because you do not believe.

PaulThomson said:
Really. That's news to me. Where did he say this?
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Everlasting-Grace said:
John 6: 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 6
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I do not see in your citation where those without faith cannot hear Jesus ' words. The people He was talking to heard what he said, but they did not believe them, they did not drink them. So, although they heard Jesus' words, they were not benefitted by Jesus words, because the words they heard were not mixed with faith.
 
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PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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FollowerofShiloh said:
40 3778 [e]
40 touto
40 τοῦτο
40 This
40 DPro-NNS

1063 [e]
gar
γάρ
for
Conj

1510 [e]
estin
ἐστιν
is
V-PIA-3S

3588 [e]
to
τὸ
the
Art-NNS

2307 [e]
thelēma
θέλημα
will
N-NNS

3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
of the
Art-GMS

3962 [e]
Patros
Πατρός
Father
N-GMS

1473 [e]
mou
μου ,
of Me
PPro-G1S

2443 [e]
hina
ἵνα
that
Conj

3956 [e]
pas
πᾶς
everyone
Adj-NMS

3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
-
Art-NMS

2334 [e]
theōrōn
θεωρῶν
beholding
V-PPA-NMS

3588 [e]
ton
τὸν
the
Art-AMS

5207 [e]
Huion
Υἱὸν
Son
N-AMS

2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj

4100 [e]
pisteuōn
πιστεύων
believing
V-PPA-NMS

1519 [e]
eis
εἰς
in
Prep

846 [e]
auton
αὐτὸν
Him
PPro-AM3S

2192 [e]
echē
ἔχῃ
should have
V-PSA-3S

2222 [e]
zōēn
ζωὴν
life
N-AFS

166 [e]
aiōnion
αἰώνιον ,
eternal
Adj-AFS

2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj

450 [e]
anastēsō
ἀναστήσω
will raise up
V-FIA-1S

846 [e]
auton
αὐτὸν
him
PPro-AM3S

1473 [e]
egō
ἐγὼ
I
PPro-N1S

1722 [e]
en
ἐν
in
Prep

3588 [e]
tē
τῇ
the
Art-DFS

2078 [e]
eschatē
ἐσχάτῃ
last
Adj-DFS

2250 [e]
hēmera
ἡμέρᾳ .
day
N-DFS
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What do you think hina means in this text.? Do you think it is clearly translated in most Bibles? How does reading hina as "in order that/ so that change the meaning of the passage?
 
P

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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FollowerofShiloh said:
It will be good for you to see the difference. Even though I am not a TR fan, I like Nestle 1904 because it was an "Independent Translation." Most others you get personal view points and opinions. That is not what one should be wanting for a translation. They should want the truth without bias.
Click to expand...
Why does "Independent Translation" mean "without personal viewpoints and opinions" ?
 
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