An atheist's testimony

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HappyLuke

Guest
#1
I might as well give my testimony, just to add some variety :)
I'm a non-believer, I've never come to understand there to be any reasons to think that a being is listening to my thoughts, controlling the world around me, created life or the universe, or any of the finer details like died for my sins. However I have come to understand several natural processes that can lead such stories without them being true, so at this point I'm unable to believe such claims on testimony alone, there are naturalistic, less world-view altering alternate explanations. I'll need to verify such things actually happen, before I can accept miraculous claims on testimony alone.
So my testimony is, I'm on an ongoing quest for logical, scientific evidence of God :)
 
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Nuns_n_roses

Guest
#2
Well technically there is nothing I can say or do to prove God's existence to you. It's just like... I can feel the rain and a child in the desert who has never heard of rain or felt it cannot comprehend rain. They can be told it's water falling from the sky, but why would the kid believe it until the saw it or felt it themself? Yet they can hear stories and choose to believe rain exists or not.

My most scientific explanation for what I believe is this: energy never dies. It's a scientific fact energy cannot be created nor destroyed right? Therefore the energy had to have always existed to form anything. Just as it cannot be created, God is the energy and the essence of all that we know and can take on different forms. God took on the form of a human for example. The trinity is best described as how water has three different forms... solid, liquid, and gas (steam) but they all stem from water. Thus can God take on different forms.

Our souls are part of God's energy... the lives of the creatures around us. Our spirits are composed of energy that never ceases. When our bodies decay, our energy seeks another location known as an afterlife.

I have heard of out of body experiences and experiences with the afterlife after an encounter with death. I have not been in that situation, but I believe their experiences because I have faith. Faith is what opens the eyes of the blind, literally as well as metaphorically.

Also remember that many scientists have gone out to prove God doesn't exist, only to become Theistic and find that the specifics of the universe are created too specifically and accurately to be accidental.

I'm glad that you are searching for God, but please do so with some faith. Otherwise your endeavors will yield no fruit. Hugs dear~<3
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Feb 25, 2013
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#3
perhaps start living life on the edge.
 

Red_Tory

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2010
611
17
18
#4
I might as well give my testimony, just to add some variety :)
I'm a non-believer, I've never come to understand there to be any reasons to think that a being is listening to my thoughts, controlling the world around me, created life or the universe, or any of the finer details like died for my sins. However I have come to understand several natural processes that can lead such stories without them being true, so at this point I'm unable to believe such claims on testimony alone, there are naturalistic, less world-view altering alternate explanations. I'll need to verify such things actually happen, before I can accept miraculous claims on testimony alone.
So my testimony is, I'm on an ongoing quest for logical, scientific evidence of God :)
So then how would you approach something like Aquinas' Five Way (assuming that you've heard of them)?
 
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Brighthouse

Guest
#5
Happyluke. Serving two tours in Vietnam I sure understand what you are saying!! I did not see God in the jungle,nor did I see him along the perfume river doing black opts. A fellow soldier was really into Jesus while i was there.Like you, I never heard much truth coming from someone else about someone else!

So I endured the guy as best i could.Later on after 3 months i was getting ready to change units,special forces does this a lot, so that you never get to attached to the team with you.They do this to keep your mind on the mission not the men,but we were ambushed along the river,and the solider who believed in Jesus got shot real bad.As i held him in my arms he said something to me, that I just could never get out of my head after that.As he lay there dieing in my arms with a big smile on his face and no fear at all he said to me

"mark,Jesus Christ died for you,and he loved you,I in him love you so I can also die for you to!" And with that he perished.It is so very rare I ever tell any true stories from the hell I used to be in,but the Lord has led me to tell you this,so I can hopefully to you explain this. This haunted me for many years after,After i got out i could not hold a job,and was very much a loner.

I mean who can you tell?No one would believe in the first place what happened to you,and since they have never killed in a war, or been subject to anything like this true horror,I mean what can one say?? I served from 1972-1976 and in 1984 on cold winters day on feb 18 Jesus found me, and saved me in a mop closet of all places in college!! LOL I have been like you searching somewhat,but never thought God would find me in a mop closet!! LOL It is a very long story,and will not bore you to tears with it.

I am now near 60 years of age bro,I have seen much in my 60 years! I can tell you as one who was much like you, that Jesus Christ is for real! When he touched me, and yes he did touch me,I have never been the same again!Nor will you, when he touches you,and when the time is right,when you least expect anything supernatural to happen to you! He will arrive!

And you good brother will be as happy and as glad as i have been! So keeping on seaching!! No one needs to push you or shove you into anything!! i sure will not,just remember what I said is all, so when that day comes, you can say I had been warned. lol You see brother,you do not have to believe in Jesus, at the start,he believes in you though! And loves all of his children wherever they are in the mind and body! His Word is true whether people believe it or not.matt 7:7 those who seek, will indeed find! And when you are found bro, you are truly found!!

Made secure,given great hope, and thanksgiving! We on this day remember what Jesus did,and what we truly are brother is VERY THANKFUL!! For this is truth,and the truth sets men free in Christ Jesus our lord!! amen!! psalm 27:13!! When goodness draws near to you,do not turn away!! PLEASE DON'T!! You will never be so glad in your life that you truly understand the meaning of staying found!! Remember this Word I say unto bro,you will wish to later I promise you! Good hunting bro! Just remember you may be the one hunted lol!! i was!
 
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HappyLuke

Guest
#6
I'm glad that you are searching for God, but please do so with some faith. Otherwise your endeavors will yield no fruit. Hugs dear~<3
Hi thanks for the great reply!
Yes it's a scientific fact that energy has never been seen to be created or destroyed, only change forms, but to me that doesn't suggest that our mind survives brain death- the energy of our bodies is accounted for in how our flesh rots, it gives it's energy as food to bacteria. Just like the energy in an animal's body (and I assume you don't think animals have immortal souls) when it rots.
There was a test set up with that concept in mind, to weigh bodies before and after death, and the test supposedly gave positive results, that bodies lost a few grams - but eventually it was revealed that the test was poorly executed, the bodies were stored in freezers for long periods between weighing or something. Nobody has repeated the experiment under better conditions yet to my knowledge, but that would be an interesting way to prove energy had left the body, under carefully controlled conditions where we could be certain they hadn't lost fluids to evaporation or anything :)

I've had an out of body, near death experience :)
It was just as realistic as people say, but of course, the brain is brilliant at generating realistic experiences - that's what dreams are. I think my experience of floating above the operating table and seeing everything was my brain improvising, building reality on information from just my ears without my eyes, which usually give the most input into building a model of reality.
Also, I've read about many ways we can generate such experiences by messing with the brain, like electrically stimulating the brain centres that generate your sense of self-location. I'd certainly be open to learning convincing evidence these things are real, but at the moment I think there are sufficient naturalistic explanations for out of body experiences as natural neurological phenomena :)

Ummm what else did you mention... Ooo that many scientists have gone out to prove God doesn't exist, only to become Theistic. That's mirrored by just as many scientists who have gone out to prove God does exist, only to become atheistic after realizing there isn't enough evidence to believe.
I've looked into claims of fine tuning of the universe before, what I notice is that people only point to mysteries about the universe and call them fine tuned, like-
"IF this constant's value is determined by random chance, it would have a 1 in 100000000000 chance of having this value"
Never
"This constant's value IS determined by random chance"

And many of the values of the universe pointed to have since been solved, and discovered not to be random chance, but determined by a balance with other values.
For example, I've heard that
"If the ratio of electrons to protons were just 0.00000000000001% different, the universe would have been chaotic and collapsed in the big bang, and life would never have formed"
But the truth behind that claim turned out to be that the ratio is 1:1, because of the conservation of electrical charge, there's exactly as many electrons as protons, and it was impossible for it to have been otherwise.

I'm not able to have faith :( I don't see the difference between faith and pretending, honestly. I find myself mentally unable to believe things that I'm not convinced are true, that I don't understand reasons that demonstrate it true. I mean, what does it even mean to say you believe something, if you don't think there are reasons to think it's true? :p
 
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HappyLuke

Guest
#7
Happyluke. Serving two tours in Vietnam I sure understand what you are saying!! I did not see God in the jungle,nor did I see him along the perfume river doing black opts.
Woooooooow intense story!! Thanks so much for the reply!
I can't wait for Jesus to hunt me down :p
I'm a little concerned that my understanding of how people can have exotic states of mind naturally has inoculated me to learning the truth of Christianity through a spectacular emotional experience, I'd probably just become convinced it was my brain. That's the sort of thing I hear most often, that people became convinced when they had a shockingly beautiful state of mind, perhaps while thinking about God at church or something.
While I may not be able to believe Christianity from having an amazing emotional experience, certainly Jesus would know how to reveal himself to me in a way I can be sure isn't some form of natural neurological event :)

Psalm 27:13, I wont turn away from goodness :)
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#8
I've noticed that several accounts were created on March 27, 2013 from the same location. Mumoffour, Happy Luke, etc...

The same person is the owner of these accounts in my opinion and they are playing trolling games.

I might as well give my testimony, just to add some variety :)
I'm a non-believer, I've never come to understand there to be any reasons to think that a being is listening to my thoughts, controlling the world around me, created life or the universe, or any of the finer details like died for my sins. However I have come to understand several natural processes that can lead such stories without them being true, so at this point I'm unable to believe such claims on testimony alone, there are naturalistic, less world-view altering alternate explanations. I'll need to verify such things actually happen, before I can accept miraculous claims on testimony alone.
So my testimony is, I'm on an ongoing quest for logical, scientific evidence of God :)
 
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HelenTn

Guest
#9
but Mumoffour is a girl, and happyluke is a guy
 
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Samohito

Guest
#10
I might as well give my testimony, just to add some variety I'm a non-believer, I've never come to understand there to be any reasons to think that a being is listening to my thoughts, controlling the world around me, created life or the universe, or any of the finer details like died for my sins. However I have come to understand several natural processes that can lead such stories without them being true, so at this point I'm unable to believe such claims on testimony alone, there are naturalistic, less world-view altering alternate explanations. I'll need to verify such things actually happen, before I can accept miraculous claims on testimony alone. So my testimony is, I'm on an ongoing quest for logical, scientific evidence of God
you will never find scientific evidence of God because God is not scientific . You will understand it when you have faith in God and Holy Spirit will guide you to understand. I just wanna share my atheist friend now became believer. I have one friend that an atheist before he finally Christ believer now. Previously he always debating in the christian forum, he delivered so many questions in the forum, and sometimes he wrote as opposed to the Christian faith and banned from forum. But he remained persistent and register by using different username. I was one of the moderators there, and I watched him, he's IDs and IP addresses. After a few times banned, i was gave him a chance to stay on the forum and told him to follow the forum rule,and not post the things that contrary to Christian faith. I'm not sure how he became a believer, now he eventually became a Jesus Christ believer and more fanatical than his wife. I remember when he told me, that he's trying to find who is God ? Does He real ? what i have to do to know Him..? He read so many books,he read bible, he read another religion holy book. He is like crazy, searching..searching.. and now he found.
 
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Samohito

Guest
#11
happyluke said:
I might as well give my testimony, just to add some variety I'm a non-believer, I've never come to understand there to be any reasons to think that a being is listening to my thoughts, controlling the world around me, created life or the universe, or any of the finer details like died for my sins. However I have come to understand several natural processes that can lead such stories without them being true, so at this point I'm unable to believe such claims on testimony alone, there are naturalistic, less world-view altering alternate explanations. I'll need to verify such things actually happen, before I can accept miraculous claims on testimony alone. So my testimony is, I'm on an ongoing quest for logical, scientific evidence of God
you will never find scientific evidence of God because God is not scientific . You will understand it when you have faith in God and Holy Spirit will guide you to understand. I just wanna share my atheist friend now became believer. I have one friend that an atheist before he finally Christ believer now. Previously he always debating in the christian forum, he delivered so many questions in the forum, and sometimes he wrote as opposed to the Christian faith and banned from forum. But he remained persistent and register by using different username. I was one of the moderators there, and I watched him, he's IDs and IP addresses. After a few times banned, i was gave him a chance to stay on the forum and told him to follow the forum rule,and not post the things that contrary to Christian faith. I'm not sure how he became a believer, now he eventually became a Jesus Christ believer and more fanatical than his wife. I remember when he told me, that he's trying to find who is God ? Does He real ? what i have to do to know Him..? He read so many books,he read bible, he read another religion holy book. He is like crazy, searching..searching.. and now he found.
 
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Brighthouse

Guest
#12
Happyluke. I am so glad you read this writing as it was intended to be read,not as any rebuke of any kind,but just something to take thought of! You know bro, I personally do not understand those who say they believe in nothing? A good friend of mine believes this ,and one day as we were walking into a mall he saw a water fountain you know, you step on the thing just below it,put your head toward the spicket and you get a drink of water.

Then he said boy I really want a soda,went to the machine put 1.25 into the machine pushed the button and received a soda. WHY???Bro did he do this? For in order to do such things one first has to believe one is going to receive something when they act right??LOL The point to this is this.

People who say they do not believe in anything use there belief everyday,they buy a ticket to an event, and then go to the event believing the ticket they bought will get them into it.LOL See what i mean? I think brother it is only natural for people to want to believe in something,even if that something is themselfs.

This practice hopefully leads them to the fact that Jesus also is about belief. In order to receive him,you must believe you are going to. Otherwise why ask? Why pray? Why believe?Because good brother the believer knows why! The same knowledge which comes in the flesh, can come in the spirit as well.The difference between the two is this. 2 cor 4:16-18!! verse 18!! Thanks again bro for taking the time to read this,my hope is God has used me to help another caught in the wire of life. matt 18:11-14 Blessing all!
 
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simplyme_bekah

Guest
#13
Ask Him. Ask God.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#14
Not if I'm right. If I'm right, they are the same person and they fooled you.

but Mumoffour is a girl, and happyluke is a guy
 
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Nuns_n_roses

Guest
#15
I appreciate the honesty in your search for knowledge.

Before we could prove scientifically that Oxygen existed, we still knew it was there. We can look at an artist's masterpiece but we know there must have been an artist who designed it even if we cannot see them. Those things require faith.

You seem truly kind hearted, but I must be honest. God cannot give you evidence of His existence BEFORE faith. You must have faith in things unseen and know that nothing comes from nothing. If you do not have faith, you cannot please God, and He cannot give you evidence because you will refuse to see it.

I know that sounds like illogical dribble drabble but it's true. I say it with good intentions. I could say you don't exist because I have not seen you, and you could be throwing me all sorts of pictures and evidence of yourself but if I was not willing to look at the pictures or speak with you, how would I even be aware of your existence? I wouldn't be because I would refuse to accept the unseen or have faith that just because I can't see people in Australia, it doesn't mean Australia doesn't exist.

I honestly wish there was some way that I could prove this to you, but I can't. You have to do that for yourself. Find your path, and I will hope that it is the right one for you. I truly do.
 
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HappyLuke

Guest
#16
I've noticed that several accounts were created on March 27, 2013 from the same location. Mumoffour, Happy Luke, etc...

The same person is the owner of these accounts in my opinion and they are playing trolling games.
No, I've only got 1 account :) As if I'm trolling, read some of my posts, I'm interesting and polite
 
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HappyLuke

Guest
#17
you will never find scientific evidence of God because God is not scientific . You will understand it when you have faith in God and Holy Spirit will guide you to understand.
Thanks for the reply :)
I'll honestly say I can't just take your word for that, I think it's impossible for you to know that we will never find scientifically valid evidence of God unless you are yourself omniscient. I just can't see how the existence of God can be 'not scientific', if the idea is that he manifests in reality in some way.
The alternative you're suggesting seems to be that God intentionally hides himself, and has designed reality to look entirely natural, as if he doesn't exist. Science is just 'every method of investigating reality that has been demonstrated to work' to me.
But you're totally right that I don't understand faith yet :p
 
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HappyLuke

Guest
#18
People who say they do not believe in anything use there belief everyday,they buy a ticket to an event, and then go to the event believing the ticket they bought will get them into it.LOL See what i mean?!
Wow fascinating, I've heard thousands of times theists say to atheists "So you believe in nothing?" and atheists are like "no I just don't believe in gods, I believe in many of the same things you believe, the things we observe all around us for example"I've NEVER ever ever heard of someone who actually professes to believe in nothing! That's so interesting!Perhaps he uses a slightly different definition of the word belief to me, I know some people think the word carries some aspect of faith to it, and he was just trying to express that he didn't believe anything *without convincing evidence* or something. Did you ever ask him "do you believe you are putting coins into a vending machine right now?" as he performed the action?
 
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HappyLuke

Guest
#19
I appreciate the honesty in your search for knowledge.

Before we could prove scientifically that Oxygen existed, we still knew it was there. We can look at an artist's masterpiece but we know there must have been an artist who designed it even if we cannot see them. Those things require faith.

You seem truly kind hearted, but I must be honest. God cannot give you evidence of His existence BEFORE faith. You must have faith in things unseen and know that nothing comes from nothing. If you do not have faith, you cannot please God, and He cannot give you evidence because you will refuse to see it.

I know that sounds like illogical dribble drabble but it's true. I say it with good intentions. I could say you don't exist because I have not seen you, and you could be throwing me all sorts of pictures and evidence of yourself but if I was not willing to look at the pictures or speak with you, how would I even be aware of your existence? I wouldn't be because I would refuse to accept the unseen or have faith that just because I can't see people in Australia, it doesn't mean Australia doesn't exist.

I honestly wish there was some way that I could prove this to you, but I can't. You have to do that for yourself. Find your path, and I will hope that it is the right one for you. I truly do.
Hiii, I don't know why you think that the fact that I wont believe on faith, without evidence, means that I wouldn't even believe if I understood evidence. You don't have to be willing to believe something without evidence to become convinced by evidence.
Like... I have ten bunkers filled with tonnes of gold, guarded by a small army. Believe me without evidence? No?
Does the fact that you don't believe that claim mean that you wouldn't believe it even if I took you on a tour around those bunkers? Of course not :p

So ya it does sound like illogical dribble as you predicted ;)
But I sure do appreciate the attempt to explain it, that's what I'm looking for :)

It doesn't take faith to think a painting should have had a painter, we have very good reasons for thinking that's necessary :p
If you refuse to look at or listen to any evidence that Australia exists, you can keep yourself uninformed, but ignoring evidence isn't what I'm doing in my search for evidence of God. You're saying he doesn't supply any evidence because I wouldn't believe it anyway (but I don't think that's a justified claim, I don't agree that any of your examples show that I need to believe without evidence before I can believe with evidence)

Thanks for the solid effort though, maybe you can expand on your examples a bit for me?
Did you mean to suggest there's not sufficient reasons to predict that a random, unidentified painting has a painter?
Oooo ooo and, did you mean that faith in anything pleases God, or only faith in him? How am I meant to know to have faith in that particular thing if there's no evidence it's the truth? Having faith in any false religion will also induce amazing, potentially convincing experiences too
 
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Brighthouse

Guest
#20
LOL happy luke i waited until he had finished his action,why bro!! he might have gone thirsty without it!!! LOL He sure is coming around though! Common sense is what our mind must also look to retain! He used to believe that life is like rolling the dice,there is always risk involved, but since we are only here but once, why not make your life as exciting as one can. lol His thought process is slowly but surly changing,I do not push him,I just wish to show him.( James 1:22) A favorite scripture of mine bro.He like many have heard many talk,but little action,the Lord in me is showing him this.( luke 16:10 he who is faithful in little, is also faithful in much, same with not being faithful! For if you give a man a small task to preform, and he does not do that,how then will you ever give the man a larger task to preform for you??You wouldn't!! LOL This he is learning.He now believes there is someone bigger then we are,he just cannot identify him yet is all.he will!! LOLBlessing bro