Well, I guess then someone who grew up with this stuff (i.e. first-hand experience) isn't considered as a reputable reference but your charts and other references are sufficient for everyone. Enjoy but far from it would I place a stumbling block in front of you. If you do not wish to participate in it, that is your choice. Don't eat pork if it is against your conscience for if you do, then you would have sinned.

I didn't say I believe in those. I said some people do.


Good for them.

Look! There it is again!

Actually Deepak Chopra would probably not applaud my efforts, I do not practice Ayurveda. I do not meditate, unless you consider Christian prayer meditation.

Does Oprah preach herbal treatments? I wouldn't know, I've seen maybe three of her shows in my life. Honestly, Oprah's presence scares me, sort of a demigod in my eyes.

And the Dalai Lama, hmm, I'm no Buddhist. Although I appreciate their peacefulness.

What I was trying to convey was that we should have faith in the healing power of God. I'm still confused as to what beliefs you believe I have.


I'm Christian. I believe in God's healing. I believe in prevention with plants that He provided to us from the beginning of time.


You are close minded. You close mindedness has caused you to miss out on learning what the love of other Christians can bring.

You mean the herbs that are mentioned in the bible aren't here for us to use?

Genesis 1:29 - And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of the tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

I know myself and Jesus knows me. I know the difference in me before I was saved and after. I know how much my life has changed.

Do you visit the doctor? Because that is the only equivalent to what I believe in. When I get sick, I turn to herbs instead of chemicals. If you would say that believing in the healing power of plants God gave us is the work of a witch, then what do you consider the work of a doctor? Not all doctors believe in God.

Jessica, again, I apologize if thie above quote is strictly regarding the use of vegetation to assist in maintaining physical health. I have absolutely no quarrel nor any issue, with anyone who consumes herbs, through any form of ingestion.

I do not wish to anger you or argue with you. If I assumed that you were advocating other methods of healing, (besides the use of herbs, recognized for their healing properties), I am sorry, and as I am sure you must be familiar with the bible, being a christian, you know that forgiveness is also part of Christian life.

I am now convinced that you are not advocating non-christian belief systems, and that you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, as the only way to God and Heaven, and a believer in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To have assumed anything else was my mistake. God bless you, and it's a pleasure to meet another sister in Christ.

Thank you.

It is nice to meet you too! I'm glad to be here!

I love it here.

I watched the video and in no way am I disputing if there was healing or not, what did disturb me was that all the persons testifying appeared to be giving glory and thanks to that church and not Jesus Christ, this troubled my spirit.

I can say with assurance, that people appear to be very excited about what's going on there. The testimonies and the clips themselves, are very short, but I'm sure they're giving glory to God in their worship. We were only priveledged to witness a few moments.

One woman, in the clip, leading and preaching said, "whatever you want us to do Lord, we'll do it! " . Another man with a goatie, who stated he was from Georgia said " we heard there was a church that's alive where God is doing things and moving, and we want to be part of it" .

I believe that these people are sincere and that God was glorified. It was also a blessing to see younger people, so passionate about testifying about their experiences. I'm glad that swizzle had the boldness to present these clips, at a time when many churches who experience the operations of the gifts of the Spirit come under attack, or are labelled as Pentecostal.

I label it as 'God, simply being God'.

If they haven't given sufficient glory, my friend, let me add to their praises, by saying " Thank you Jesus for every healing and for every life that was changed through that ministry.

Of course God heals people when it is His will do to so...I also believe that He answers according to how we are living our lives. He is good to His children and His children are believers. He allows things to happen, even sad and terrible things...but it is all for a reason and we won't know the answers to all of these things until we are in Heaven. It's all about faith...I know without a doubt that God is taking care of my brother with his cancer right now. I also know without a doubt that He has answered every prayer and it is because of Him that the doctors have found that my brothers cancer is curable. If it had turned out differently, Thank God it didn't, I would have been devastated, but it would never EVER change my heart and how much it loves the Lord...

Thank you for sharing that. Very true. Very strengthening.

Let me put your mind at ease Graybeard... At World Revival Church WE DO PRAISE GOD. The reason that you find people so excited about the church itself, also, is simply this: Many of us are victims of dead churches.

We are excited and PRAISING GOD for what is happening inour church. We are thankful that there is a group of people that will allow it to happen. We are thankful that there is a Pastor willing to pastor his the people in all the ways of God, despite the oppostion that he gets (He gets a lot of pressure from outside of the church, and has physically had his life in danger from other people, even Christians). We are thankful for the place that all this happens in, and all of these are associated with one another under God.

I PROMISE you that if you came here and asked any of those people who the credit goes to for what happened, they would say God without a doubt or without hesitation. These testimonies were all told somewhere in the middle of an hour of straight worship, meaning corporate worship went on before AND after the testimonies... and the worship always becomes more intense in response to the testimonies.

Please do not split hairs over whether the grammar of an excited person is correct or not. These people are overwhelmed with gratitude for something that their previous churches were not providing for them. Their motives are pure and God knows there hearts. There is no need to strain out that gnat.

You can NEVER argue with someones experiences.

The Spirit I have testifies to what I believe. That's it. And what I believe is found only in the Bible, not in verse taken out of context to prove a point.

The BIble actually predicts many people would be deceived by signs and wonders in the last days

Do you believe we live in the last days?

===Andrew.

There is certainly evidence of the continuation of a moral decline. I am also certain that many who experienced the great depression of the 1920's - 1930's, or World War II, watching the events unfolding in Hitler's Germany, also believed that the end was near. Some, even those outside of Christ, want to believe that the world cannot continue, as it is, for much longer, because of the signs of economic instability and the development of nuclear capabilities in certain nations.

I believe that there are signs of an increase in godlessness, and an increase in philosophies which advocate heretical belief systems, denying that Christ is the only way to Heaven. In that regard, yes, there are indications that cause me to believe that we are in the early part of the last days. But there are many conspiracy theories, which greatly fuel the passions of those who, undertandably, hope that Christ will return within their lifetime, and as a result, they place great emphasis on every event that occurs, zealously, and almost desperately, connecting it to the biblical depiction of the end times. I'm sure that our's is not the first generation to do this.

I think that you will find that every Christian believer would state that the Spirit testifies to what they believe, and I'm not sure they would be wrong in doing so. You see, the Holy Spirit is not present in our lives because we have completely understood Daniels vision, the revelation of John, or any other end time prophecy. The Spirit of God is present because we are believers, we are saved. According to,

Ephesians 1:13

Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit, guaranteeing our inheritance, until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Many believers are sensitive to the presence of the Holy Spirit, however, the Holy Spirit's presence is, by no means, an indication that any one of us, or any one congregation, has received complete understanding in all things. Each of us are continuing to learn and to mature.

The bible does predict that false prophets and false christs will arise in the last days, and that the elect would not be deceived. Before disqualifying me, and others, from being part of God's elect, because I believe in the present day gifts of the Holy Spirit, I would like to ask you a question.

From within the bible, and from whatever scriptural passage/s you choose, please explain to me, when God ceased to give the gift of healing to man.

I really do not dispute that your church praises God I'm sure they do, nor that healings and miracles occur as I truly believe God still does them.
I don't dispute that the people are exited, i'ts just that if one has been healed and an opportunity arises to tell the world, they would be giving ALL the gory and praise to God alone. He is a jealous God and demands ALL the glory and praise that He rightly deserves, the fact that the pastor/leadership do not encourage that is maybe they want everyone to see how great their church is.
we just have to be careful even in our worship/praise and to whom we are giving the glory.
Exalt the Lord not the church

here you all go :-)

Thanks Machew. That was awesome. Praise the Lord!

Hi SeaGlass, I wanted to add a few things to my previous response to your post. I rejoice with you concerning your brother's experience with cancer and that it is curable, but in the early part of your statement saying, "God heals when it is His will to do so", implies that there are times when God simply chooses not to heal. I firmly believe, as you said, it's all about faith. I believe that God never refuses healing, even though it may seem that way to some, because there conditions were unchanged.

Yesterday, on my job, I was speaking to a believer about unrelated topics, it was obvious that something was wrong. He was continually coughing and there was a short distance between he and I during our conversation. Later, my throat became sore, I began coughing, and felt ill. I often pray for people around me, both believers and non-believers, including the man I was speaking to, but this time I was the one feeling the symptoms.

I said several times over the course of the day, "I do not receive this sickness, I do not accept it" In Jesus name I command this sickness to go". By the end of my work day, I was in perfect health, with no symptoms. SeaGlass, I believe that it is always God's will to heal, even when there appears to be evidence to the contrary. It is satan who comes to kill, steal and destroy. Jesus came that we would have abundant life.

Jesus never prequalified anyone before healing them, and if Machews video is genuine, this is another indication of the healing of individuals who were formerly non-believers. It would appear that faith in God's ability to heal, is the only prerequisite for the Holy Spirit's healing.

I recently had an opportunity to discuss the subject of healing with a few Christians on this site. I wasn't prepared for what transpired. The views surrounding 'present day' healings were strangely diverse. I'm using this particular post, (related to healing), to expound on my understanding of healing according to the scriptures.

I firmly believe that the Gift of healing was given in accordance with

I Corinthians 12:28

...first are apostles, second are prophets, third are teachers, then
those who do miracles, those who have the gift of healing, those who can help ...

I also believe that Faith plays an important part in receiving healing, in accordance with

Hebrews 11:1

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen..

We use faith when we pray, believing that God hears and answers. We use faith when we ask, believing we will receive what we've asked for according to His will, and faith is involved in deliverence from bondages and in healing. Jesus was approached by His disciples after their unsuccessful attempts to cast out a demon. Jesus was asked by the disciples, why couldn't we cast him out? Jesus replied, in Matthew 17:20 -

..."because of your lack of faith"...

Matthew 21:22

...And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive. ..

In another passage, Jesus didn't do many works in a particular area, because of their unbelief (Matthew 13:58). (unbelief, in this verse, was not referring to failing to believe on the Messiah, but rather a recognized, distinct lack of faith)

In Matthew 9:28

Jesus asked, as he was approached by blind men, " Do you believe I am able to do this" ? (This question was specifically addressing the issue of faith or belief in Jesus' ability to perform the healing)


Is this an opportunity for believers to measure the faith of others? Absolutely not ! Does healing reflect a person's righteousness or level of holiness?? Not at all. Unbelievers were healed in Jesus' time as well as today. Does a person's apparent inability to receive healing indicate that it is God's will for them to suffer, or die? Surprisingly, for some, the answer to that question would be, I don't know, Maybe, or even Yes! Most who subscribe to this philosophy, cling to the idea that once a person has waited for a long enough time, this should be an indication that it may be the will of God for them to remain in their present condition, placing an expiration date, so to speak, on their request for healing. Once again, the word of God does not support this theory or philosophy.

Healing is available as part of the covenant we have with God through Jesus Christ. If a person avails themselves of the blood bought right to believe for healing, it is their choice to do so. If someone decides that there time would be better spent ministering to those with similar conditions to their own, that is also a conscious choice that every believer has the right to make for his/her own life, and one should not condemn the other for their belief, or their choice.

Those who decide to persecute those who maintain a belief that it is God's will to heal, certainly have their work cut out for them in finding New Testament scriptures indicating that it is Gods will for a person to suffer or to die of sickness. I boldly maintain that, while some suffer as a result of self inflicted illnesses and poor health choices, my belief remains unchanged, in believing that sickness is rooted in the curse, not the blessing, (Deut. 28), and that it is satan who kills and destroys, not Jesus.(John 10:10).

Each person has the right to ask, but no matter the what the outcome or experience is, we are not afforded the right to create new philosophies and doctrines which eliminate the words of Christ, which should be respected as absolute truth.

There are those who have tried to convince me that, on occassion, God will 'allow' a debilitating affliction, with no hope of healing, so that he can complete his purpose in that individuals life, or so that they will be better able to minister to individuals with similar sicknesses. The justification is also sometimes used, that an injury or debilitating illness is so disfiguring, that the only option for that individual would be ministry or to simply live with the disfigurment. I believe that this is simply an indication of how far from faith we have fallen.

There is nothing supporting the belief that God 'allows' sickness to disable an individual for the purpose of ministry. I love my brothers and sisters in Christ, but this belief is based on personal intellectualizing, speculation, and unfounded assumption. These non-biblical beliefs can only be supported by 'personal experiences' and 'logical conclusions'.

Some have used the thorn in Paul's flesh to support this unfounded philosophy regarding 'purpose in permanent sickness'. Let's examine it to see what it really says:

II Corinthians 12:7 (spoken by Paul)

God has given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of satan, to torment me, lest I be exalted above measure.

This was clearly a means through which the Lord kept Paul from becoming conceited, because of the great revelations he received. The thorn is not defined as sickness, but an unnamed tormenting messenger. A messenger is a demon, and I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that every sickness is a demon.

Another favorite, sometimes referred to, is, Paul's illness, found in Galations 4:13 -

As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God..... 15 I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me....

This is an indication that Paul did suffer with an illness. For how long? There are many conditions which might affect the eyes, blurred vision, conjunctivitis (pink eye), and many others. The truth of the matter is, Pauls purpose was not in his sickness, and there is no indication that this sickness was the 'thorn in Paul's flesh', (referred to in the previous scripture), but the sickness (for however long it lasted), was the reason he went to Galatia. To use this possibly 'short term' illness, to support the theory that God uses sickness to create ministries, is a considerable stretch.

I am not implying, in any way, that every sickness which results in death or the loss of body function, is an indication that an individual is cursed or excedingly sinful or that they lack in God's favor. How devils maneuver and accuse, in order to attack and harm individuals, is a mystery, but I for one, will place the blame where it belongs, squarely on satan, and Jesus needs no help from him in reaching the lost.