2 Timothy 2:11-14

[pickles]

I reciently read 2 timothy, and this scripture stood out as one that should be considered when we discuss or debate.
It made an impression on me, when it comes to considering the words we share here.

2 Tim 2:11
You can depend on this, if we have died with Him, we shall also live with Him;
12: If we hold out to the end, we shall also reign with Him.
But if we deny Him he will deny us.
13: If we are unfaithful He will remain faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
14: Keep reminding people of these things and charge them before God to stop disputing about mere words.
This does no good and can be the ruin of those who listen.

There is alot said in this short scripture shared, but the final line stood out as to the accountibuility we have in what we say.
Both, in what we speak to, and what we should not be speaking to.
For our words matter, and we are charged to be reminded when we have disputes.
Too often lately I have seen believers decide to leave this site, simply because of the diputes.
I just wanted to share this scripture, that we all may be reminded.
I know it made an impression on me.
For just as valuable are the words we speak in witness, we need to be mindful to the responcibuility of what we say to each other.


in the love of Jesus.
God bless
pickles

 

[pickles]

I want to start with sharing how we can sometmes be so focused on speaking to what we think needs to be shared, that we can fail to say what needs to be said.
Some one here came to me because they had been injured by another.
I was so focused on sharing the love of Jesus, and how we need to love each other.
That I failed to speak to this person the love they needed to hear, words of comfort.
Sometimes we can be so focused on what we think is right, we fail to do what is right.
Jesus showed us this many times while He walked this earth, I do believe this is what fullfilling the law is all about.
I hope the person I hurt will know how sorry I am, and I hope you will forgive me .

God bless
pickles

 

[clarkthompson]

disputes is something satan wants for the believers

 

[pickles]

I wanted to also discuss another part of this scripture that I see as very profound.

13: If we are unfaithful he (Jesus) will remain faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

So this does bring alot to consider, and maby some answers to debated interpitations.
such as, does this mean that once one has accepted Jesus, He remains in them?

I believe that this does say that once one has recieved Jesus, he remains in them, that is why Jesus will remain faithful.

Please share your thoughts.
But please also keep verse 14 in consideration, as we a charged to be mindful of this.

God bless
pickles

 

[tdrew777]

We often seem to lose the battle for souls by focusing on the words of our own reasoning. Man's original sin was not an overt attempt to choose evil, but rather trying to discern good from evil without reference to the direct counsel available from God. And we still exalt the reasoning of our mind over the revelation from the Holy Spirit, especially with respect to what is right and wrong. Let's keep it simple, keep it spiritual.

Grace, faith and God providing and maintaining salvation go together. Works, law and humans providing and maintaining their own salvation go together. Scriptures clearly teach one and not the other. If salvation is unmerited it is by grace, if you need to meet a minimum requirement, salvation is earned by works. If salvation is unmerited, it is accessed through faith; if you must meet a standard, salvation is accessed by the law of that standard. If salvation is by grace through faith, then it is God who provides it - and God is eternal acting once for all time and it is secure. If salvation is by the works of meeting a minimum standard, through law then we must maintain the minimum standard and are sure to fail to maintain it. The promise is voided . God sees to it that those who are called are also justified, sanctified and glorified - it is of God and a sure thing from the beginning. If salvation were based on our efforts it would be a sure failure from the beginning. As Paul says in Romans 4, if the promise of salvation (given to Abraham) were based on law/works faith would be nullified and THE PROMISE VOID. The promise would be voided because there would be no chance of obtaining it.
Men are not capable of good works - we are totally depraved. That does not mean that we are as bad as we could possibly be, it means that it is impossible to do any work from a holy motive. We are regenerated in an instant at the moment we believe. From that moment, good works from a holy motive are possible and we enter the battle of deciding between good works and sin. Before salvation, we decide between modes of sin. The Holy Spirit, who gives us a new nature, will see to it that that new nature is not destroyed.

 

[Trax]

disputes is something satan wants for the believers

If everyone agreed on everything in the Bible, there wouldn't
be a lot of post made, about the Bible. To disagree with
someone's view of scripture, the individual needs to know
what is written in the Bible.

I do not see these disputes as bad, but just the opposite.
They force the individual to get into God's word and read it.
It also trains the individual to develop patience, longsuffering
and grace. People who feel hurt and leave, well, they had something
in their spiritual life that needs to grow, pointed out to them, but
they aren't seeing it. But people will say, "Christians shouldn't behave
like this." True they shouldn't. But these disputes not only show a
lack of Biblical knowledge, but spiritual growth, in the individual.
A carnal mind, can't see the fruit, a spiritual mind can. No one puts up
a greater fight than someone locked into a doctrine mindset. To wrestle
with that individual and grow spiritually, will make the individual better equiped to
deal with non-believers.

 

[RedTent]

pickles;I wanted to also discuss another part of this scripture that I see as very profound.

13: If we are unfaithful he (Jesus) will remain faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

So this does bring alot to consider, and maby some answers to debated interpitations.
such as, does this mean that once one has accepted Jesus, He remains in them?

I believe that this does say that once one has recieved Jesus, he remains in them, that is why Jesus will remain faithful.

Please share your thoughts.
But please also keep verse 14 in consideration, as we a charged to be mindful of this.

God bless

I think there is an actual change within us when we accept Christ, we become open to spiritual undersanding that is closed to us without the Holy Spirit. But I think, for any time of the day or night, we can choose to listen to that part of us or we can listen to only the fleshly part of us.

I also think that what we do in the flesh also has a spiritual aspect to it. That is why ignoring God's commands is so serious, and also why obeying those same commands with only fleshly understanding is ineffective.

Isaiah told us to reason together, and we are warned against silly disputes. Paul told us to go along with others, and pointed out that there are differences in understanding. Even when we think their food restrictions are not for us, if they believe in them we are to go along with it. We are also told there is a spiritual realm in our world that we never completely understand. It would be ideal if we were so good, so pure, so right (ha) that we never take our reasoning together personally, but think of it only in terms of God! Then there would be no personal hard feelings! We are told that each of our jobs as it relates to others is to build them up and not judge them, so we are to soothe hard feelings.

 

[pickles]

If everyone agreed on everything in the Bible, there wouldn't
be a lot of post made, about the Bible. To disagree with
someone's view of scripture, the individual needs to know
what is written in the Bible.

I do not see these disputes as bad, but just the opposite.
They force the individual to get into God's word and read it.
It also trains the individual to develop patience, longsuffering
and grace. People who feel hurt and leave, well, they had something
in their spiritual life that needs to grow, pointed out to them, but
they aren't seeing it. But people will say, "Christians shouldn't behave
like this." True they shouldn't. But these disputes not only show a
lack of Biblical knowledge, but spiritual growth, in the individual.
A carnal mind, can't see the fruit, a spiritual mind can. No one puts up
a greater fight than someone locked into a doctrine mindset. To wrestle
with that individual and grow spiritually, will make the individual better equiped to
deal with non-believers.

Trax, it is good to discuss and debate, but one sees in the scripture here that dispute is used to speak of endless arguments.
2Tim2 :14 does say to charge one another against disputing about mere words.
So I guess what we need to decern is what is understood as mere words?
I dont think most have issue with good debate or discussion.
But to see disputes that occer simply because one does not say something the same way another would, or always clarify and speak to every reqirement of another .
The comments that are sarcastic, or meant to make fun.
Or dismissing one, simply because they are still learning, so treated as foolish or less.
Or the disputes that bring confusion, even causeing some to lose sight of the truth.
This scripture does speak that it can be the ruin of those who listen.
This scripture calls us to consider the responcibuility not just in witnessing to the truth, but also knowing when a dipute brings more damage than good.
Sometimes we need to rest a dispute to Jesus in faith, knowing that He will not let any be taken from Him.

I do agree though, that a good discussion does bring much to be considered in knowladge, and sought by faith in Jesus.

God bless

pickles

 

[GreenNnice]

I wanted to also discuss another part of this scripture that I see as very profound.

13: If we are unfaithful he (Jesus) will remain faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

So this does bring alot to consider, and maby some answers to debated interpitations.
such as, does this mean that once one has accepted Jesus, He remains in them?

I believe that this does say that once one has recieved Jesus, he remains in them, that is why Jesus will remain faithful.

Please share your thoughts.
But please also keep verse 14 in consideration, as we a charged to be mindful of this.

God bless
pickles

He is faithful to Himself, pickled, can't be otherwise. We are to be faithful to Him.
Some will 'depart the faith,' as 1 Tim. 4:1 says, this simply says that some of His will 'turn' unfaithful.
But that is not God, He will REMAIN faithful . But our choice to leave Him means 'we've chosen a faithless faith and we both know, milady, that, sadly to say, is no faith then at all.

It's a 'fight,' Paul says, a battle, to allow God to grow our faith .
And, some get into this 'battle' with the Enemy's hand right there to help he/she fully, faithlessly deny Him


Such a sad post, but, not really, because YOU are His, mypickledmilady, and, your job is to not worry about tomorrow but worry about serving the Lord, as He leads, and, helping others , through prophesying words that are simply edification, exhortation, positiveness (something that is avGIFT of yours , and, yeah, pray for those who are weaker in the faith in Christ and ask God how you can seek to find ways to build them up, on c.c., in your church, however He leads. Follow Him John 21:22

 

[pickles]

Greeny, the scripture in some ways is sad, like you spoke to for those that do not remain faithful.
But I see also this scripture telling us that Jesus will remain faithful to that one, and this is a word that speaks hope.
For how many have stepped away from faith, thinking Jesus is lost to them, how great a witness given of this scripture, that Jesus never left their side!
To me this is a word of hope and comfort needed.

God bless
pickles

 

[Kefa52]

I have to agree with pickles.
The key word here is "disputes".
A discussion is one thing, but when we let our emotions take over we loose the discussion.

No-one can upset me. I upset myself with my demands.
( I must be right),
(This person is wrong and I must punish them with attitude),
( People must listen to me, or I will upset myself)......etc.

Let the word sreak for it's self.

 

[Hopetobe]

First of all, these verses refer to a special group that will have a heavenly hope with Christ Jesus. They will rule as kings and priest with him. But you still have a point. Asking questions to seek the truth is necessary, but one out to create descention is not.

 

[Kefa52]

First of all, these verses refer to a special group that will have a heavenly hope with Christ Jesus. They will rule as kings and priest with him. But you still have a point. Asking questions to seek the truth is necessary, but one out to create descention is not.

2 Timothy 2: 11-14
2:11-13 The trustworthy statement moves from comfort to challenge and back to comfort. Verse 12 is a clear statement on the necessity of perseverance. As Jesus said, only the person who endures will be saved (Mt 10:22). Verse 13 is a reminder of God's preserving power and faithfulness. In this context, to deny Him envisions a more serious offense than being faithless. To "deny Him" envisions apostasy, whereas "faithless" refers to a lapse in trust, which is something every believer does at some point.

2:14 It is clear that Paul was willing to confront people when the gospel was at stake. For example, he opposed Peter to his face (Gal 2:11). What he had in mind here was meaningless argument.