2Corinthians 3:14-16

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 7, 2017
1,605
140
63
#1
[FONT=&quot]My sister Pamelasv did the following question:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](2Corinthians 3.14-16)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?[/FONT]
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#2
I think the verse is about this:

The Old Testament is unclear and "encrypted" for Jews and unbelievers. They do not understand its real meaning.
Only in Christ it makes sense and its real meaning is revealed.

I.E. - we must look at the OT spiritually, not like Jews, physically and literally.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,475
3,516
113
#3
My sister Pamelasv did the following question:

· “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.” (2Corinthians 3.14-16).

I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?
I believe when they turn to Jesus and seek Him then the vail which blocks their understanding of Jesus will be taken away..

Matthew 7: KJV
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: {8} For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."
 
Feb 7, 2017
1,605
140
63
#4
[FONT=&quot]WE HEAR THE VOICE OF JESUS [/FONT][FONT=&quot]​​[/FONT][FONT=&quot]TO BE BORN AGAIN AND WE STRIVE TO SEE HIS WAYS SO THAT WE CAN MATURE AND, THUS, TO SEE ALL OF THE CORRECT MODE.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](2Corinthians 3.14-16)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Contrary to what many people think, conversion does not happen because of what we see about Christ, but rather as a result of what we hear:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Romans 10.17)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](John 10.1-5)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“Wherefore [/FONT][FONT=&quot](as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: when your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Hebrews 3.7-11)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Revelation 3.20)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Notice how repentance and conversion come by hearing the voice of Jesus and knowing His ways. And this is not a matter of seeing. After all, faith is the certainty of things hoped for, the conviction of facts that are not seen (Hebrews 11:1).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That is to say, the individual first hears Jesus and His gospel. He who believes is cured of spiritual blindness (2Co 4.3-6) and becomes the son of the Eternal.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, such an individual is a child in the faith (Gal. 4: 1-3; 1 Peter 2: 1-2). While in this condition, the veil of the law is placed on his face.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That is, such an individual can only see Jesus and his neighbor in a carnal way:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](2Corinthians 5.16)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](1Corinthians 3.1-3)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Hebrews 5.12-14)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You may ask: but the Holy Scripture says that when one is converted to Christ the veil is taken away.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When the individual is born again, he has, in fact, converted to the Eternal (although by mental faith in Christ).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Matthew 11.27)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, the salvation of our souls depends on two factors:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“And this is life eternal, that they might [/FONT][FONT=&quot]know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](John 17.3)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The first step is to know the Father and be treated by Him (see Titus 3:4-6). When, finally, time comes (see Ezekiel 16: 8), namely, when the individual is prepared to receive true love within himself, then the Father presents the individual to Jesus:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot] “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](John 6.44,45)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The individual then becomes the bride of the Lamb. The Lamb then removes the veil that covers the face of the individual (remembering Genesis 24.65-67) and the individual begins to see Jesus and his neighbor spiritually.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To conclude, in relation to the restoration of the spiritual vision, the individual needs to receive two touches of Jesus: when he converts to the Eternal, he receives the first touch, seeing everything, but in a blurred way (by the veil of the law).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When he attains maturity and marries Christ, the individual receives the second touch, and then he is freed from the veil of the law, beginning to see far and distinctly, as in this episode recorded by Mark:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.” (Mark 8.22-25).[/FONT]
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#5
"Unlike Moses, we have nothing to hide. Everything is out in the open with us. He wore a veil so the children of Israel wouldn’t notice that the glory was fading away – and they didn’t notice. They didn’t notice it then and they don’t notice it now, don’t notice that there’s nothing left behind that veil.

Even today when the proclamations of that old, bankrupt government are read out, they can’t see through it. Only Christ can get rid of the veil so they can see for themselves that there’s nothing there.

Whenever, though, they turn to face God as Moses did, God removes the veil and there they are – face to face! They suddenly recognize that God is a living, personal presence, not a piece of chiseled stone. And when God is personally present, a living Spirit, that old, constricting legislation is recognized as obsolete. We’re free of it!"


2 Corinthians 3:13-17, MSG
 
Feb 7, 2017
1,605
140
63
#6
"Unlike Moses, we have nothing to hide. Everything is out in the open with us. He wore a veil so the children of Israel wouldn’t notice that the glory was fading away – and they didn’t notice. They didn’t notice it then and they don’t notice it now, don’t notice that there’s nothing left behind that veil.

Even today when the proclamations of that old, bankrupt government are read out, they can’t see through it. Only Christ can get rid of the veil so they can see for themselves that there’s nothing there.

Whenever, though, they turn to face God as Moses did, God removes the veil and there they are – face to face! They suddenly recognize that God is a living, personal presence, not a piece of chiseled stone. And when God is personally present, a living Spirit, that old, constricting legislation is recognized as obsolete. We’re free of it!"


2 Corinthians 3:13-17, MSG
I very much appreciate your remark. Regrettably, to this day many religious institutions insist on keeping the Old Testament precepts, in mending that cursed veil that Jesus suffered so much to tear so that we could have free access to Jesus Christ anywhere and at any time.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,326
6,619
113
#7
What Publication, Group, whatever, are you getting all these questions you are posting from?

Curious about that.........