A Positive Impact

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Feb 10, 2008
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#1
Recently I've been struggling with the idea of how to address people with differing opinions, people with different perspectives and different understanding. For many years I have embraced disagreements; I will passionately defend my understanding as being absolutely right until someone else can present a sufficiently convincing argument. I refuse to be a leaf blowing in the wind, but I know I am often not right. As long as I wasn't attacking the person, name calling, insulting, etc I saw no problem with continuing to stand firm and seek to be understood.

I have started seeing more clearly what the fruit of this passion really is. Especially online I can't point to a single person who's life I can say I really impacted positively with any of the 'serious' discussions. It seems that people walk away with frustration and anger and resentment, even if I do not; not the fruit of love.

One of the outcomes of a recent synod by the church I grew up in, after much debate, was to declare that the Bible says "homosexuality is clearly a sin" and that any church leader who openly supports homosexuality will be subject to disciplinary action. At the same synod, the church removed a clause allowing someone to abstain from supporting women in leadership roles in the church. Where 20 years ago the church would have said the Bible says "women should clearly not be in leadership roles." The pastor at my parent's church shared that he was really struggling with this seeming contradiction. That there were many things that he simply didn't know, that there were things in the Bible that we simply can't know, but that we should cling to the things we DO know: Love.

There are so many ideas, so many opinions, so many thoughts about The Word and what it means, so how can we possibly follow through with 2 Timothy 4:2? Do we simply fall back on Love and support everyone in their time of need? For these controversial topics, do we just embrace and support others no matter what we believe? Is it up to God to convict them? Is it truly love if we don't seek to rebuke and correct? When the fruits of confrontations always seem to be negative, even if we do it with patience and attempted kindness, should it continue?
 
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Liz01

Guest
#2
It is possible to follow 2 Timothy 4:2 but its not easy, those who are searching or ready to accept God in their lives will accept the word of God but those who are against God wont. To discuss or force someone to believe in something doesnt mean that they will change and many times it is harmful, but that doesnt mean that we should change our minds or agree with what others say. The good is good and the bad is bad according what bible say but to accept God is a personal decision.

i have seen amazing changes in ppl as a consecuence of love, the support as a consecuence of love is not to agree with them but help them in what they need, maybe helping just listening when they are trouble and/or physical help if they are ill.
I think that as christians we need to acomplish our job according to bible preaching the word, correcting, rebuking and exhorting but with love and guided by God in the right time but with love and patience.
 
Feb 10, 2008
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#3
It is possible to follow 2 Timothy 4:2 but its not easy, those who are searching or ready to accept God in their lives will accept the word of God but those who are against God wont. To discuss or force someone to believe in something doesnt mean that they will change and many times it is harmful, but that doesnt mean that we should change our minds or agree with what others say. The good is good and the bad is bad according what bible say but to accept God is a personal decision.

i have seen amazing changes in ppl as a consecuence of love, the support as a consecuence of love is not to agree with them but help them in what they need, maybe helping just listening when they are trouble and/or physical help if they are ill.
I think that as christians we need to acomplish our job according to bible preaching the word, correcting, rebuking and exhorting but with love and guided by God in the right time but with love and patience.
The question isn't about accepting the Word, Liz. The question is about understanding it. Even among those who accept God and His Word, there are many disagreements. How does one know which of these understandings is correct? There is so much in the Word that is simply not clear.

Your last two comments seem in contradiction, and the source of my questions. "We need to accomplish our job by...rebuking... in the right time." My question is what standard do you rebuke against? Do you only rebuke on things that are clear in the Bible? Who defines what is clear? To one christian something may appear clear, but to another it is not. Is it simply what appears clear to the most christians at the time? If it were clear, and they truly are a christian, then there would be no need for rebuke!
 
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Liz01

Guest
#4
Maybe im not understanding your questions. I wrote that because i have been in some situations that i need to preach, correct or rebuke. For example : months ago i was talking with a christian friend, she recently acepted Jesus in her life and she seemed to not understand what bible say, she accepted God in her life and accept that bible is the word of God but she said that was right a sin that she was doing trying to justify herself what was doing, but bible is very clear about what we should do or not, so i had to told her that she was sinning but letting know her that i was not trying to judge her. And i do this with christians or non christians (when they havent accepted Jesus yet as their savior) and we are talking about God as casual thing in luch for example.

Now, what standard do you rebuke against? All that bible talk about

Do you only rebuke on things that are clear in the Bible?
Regarding of having clear what bible says, we need to pray and let the spirit of God guide us. Now, the bible doesnt have many interpretations, it is very clear and it defines by itself most of the time, actually when there are parables, they are explained in subsequent versicles. And when i have doubts about the meaning of a versicle i go to search the meaning in the original language (hebrew or greek) depending the part of the bible and i try to study when ppl talk about things that are explained by the jewish customs at that time and as i know there are few techniques to study the bible that may help you to analyze it better.

Who defines what is clear? God
Is it simply what appears clear to the most christians at the time? No, and i think this is a very delicated point, my intention is never to judge anyone, and hope this is not taken in the wrong way, but i have noticed that when someone dosent want the rebuke but bible say thatthat person is doing wrong is because is sinning, in that situation i think we need to be very careful about that and try to put closer that person to God and not to reject them because their sin (in which moment we need a lot of patience and love). And an example of that is homosexuality.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Feb 10, 2008
3,371
16
38
#5
Maybe im not understanding your questions. I wrote that because i have been in some situations that i need to preach, correct or rebuke. For example : months ago i was talking with a christian friend, she recently acepted Jesus in her life and she seemed to not understand what bible say, she accepted God in her life and accept that bible is the word of God but she said that was right a sin that she was doing trying to justify herself what was doing, but bible is very clear about what we should do or not, so i had to told her that she was sinning but letting know her that i was not trying to judge her. And i do this with christians or non christians (when they havent accepted Jesus yet as their savior) and we are talking about God as casual thing in luch for example.

Now, what standard do you rebuke against? All that bible talk about

Do you only rebuke on things that are clear in the Bible?
Regarding of having clear what bible says, we need to pray and let the spirit of God guide us. Now, the bible doesnt have many interpretations, it is very clear and it defines by itself most of the time, actually when there are parables, they are explained in subsequent versicles. And when i have doubts about the meaning of a versicle i go to search the meaning in the original language (hebrew or greek) depending the part of the bible and i try to study when ppl talk about things that are explained by the jewish customs at that time and as i know there are few techniques to study the bible that may help you to analyze it better.

Who defines what is clear? God
Is it simply what appears clear to the most christians at the time? No, and i think this is a very delicated point, my intention is never to judge anyone, and hope this is not taken in the wrong way, but i have noticed that when someone dosent want the rebuke but bible say thatthat person is doing wrong is because is sinning, in that situation i think we need to be very careful about that and try to put closer that person to God and not to reject them because their sin (in which moment we need a lot of patience and love). And an example of that is homosexuality.
I think you're closer to answering the questions I asked now, though I'm not sure how helpful your answers are. :( My questions are specifically targetted at those things that seem to bring out our claws and fangs; There are absolutely things that the Bible is not clear on, I could give you a list if you want. The Bible itself says that there are things that we won't understand. :)

In general, I think especially with non-christians it is beneficial to show them love no matter what. But we are commanded to point out sins to our fellow believers.(18:15-17) But on these things which are not clearly sin, if it comes down to the church determining what is sin and what isn't, then isn't it actually "what appears clear to the most christians"? Matthew 18:17 seems very clear. If homosexuality is a sin and your brother or sister refuses to listen, then you should treat him/her as a pagan. Unless you happen to go to a church that doesn't consider homosexuality a sin; there seem to be more and more year by year.

I'm still struggling with this.
 
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Liz01

Guest
#6
haha, ok, im only giving my opinion, i dont have the answers :D

but i agree with you in to show love no matter what and hope you can find soon the answers youre looking for :)
 
Jul 25, 2005
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#7
If homosexuality is a sin and your brother or sister refuses to listen, then you should treat him/her as a pagan. Unless you happen to go to a church that doesn't consider homosexuality a sin; there seem to be more and more year by year.

I'm still struggling with this.
Won't we all? Love and beauty are two mysterious creatures.

I will say this knowing it will not solve your question, but sometimes love does require claws and fangs. God isn't exactly captain creampuff. He is infinitely loving, but can be quite wrathful.

I view love as the most distal of distal causes. So many things can be done in a spirit of love that it takes on many different forms.

Maybe that is why it is one of God's chief qualities and also why it can escape all reasoning.