Anybody else have this dilemma ??

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vahn

Guest
#21
How many people out there believe Judas went to hell because he betrayed Jesus? His sin is no different than pride or adultery. Although he betrayed Jesus, I believe that without what he did, Jesus wouldn't have died on the cross for our sins.

Sin is immeasurable, and its a concept that others haven't gotten yet.

I try to see others and myself through God's eyes, because what he sees is absolute perfection.
 
Jan 7, 2010
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#23
so in reading this, there are certainly a few things that need to be said...non of them judgemental but definitely facts and verses that need to be opened.

In regards to tattoo's

'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:28, now the book of Leviticus is the Law that was given to Israel, it was there so they may be Holy to God, so they may be a nation of prophets and priests to the world. For us today, this still applies, the Law is still in effect, but it is not by Law that we are governed, we are under Grace, given by God through Christ. By knowledge of the Law we are dead, but by the price paid as due by our sin, we are saved, that price being paid by the Blood of Christ.

Should we tattoo our bodies? We must remember that the temple of God exists within the Bride of Christ, that is within us, unseen to the world for now. I believe we shouldn't tattoo our bodies, for God has said, do not do it. Do not mark your bodies as the pagan's do say's the Lord. So I would say tattoo's which for a time I considered are not a great idea. The worlds moral and standards are not God's by far. Even if your tattoo is of a cross, the cross is not Christ, You are right to say, God isn't looking on the outside, his looking on the inside. Therefore, our actions, our heart, and our life should preach our Faith more then any tattoo, because to God these do not edify, he is looking on the inside, Christ made a mention that the Priests and Men of the Law in 1st Century Jerusalem loved to fast and show through their body that they were fasting, with pale faces, and gaunt expression, they loved the head of a table at a feast, and to pray on street corners and boast of their works in the name of God and therefore to others outwardly show their righteous. Christ warned us, that God see's what is done in secret, God wants authentic faith, not faith that requires outward expression, our faith should be so much apart of our lives that our humble attitude, our servant heart, our longing for the Kingdom should be present in every thought.

Now it is true, we do all struggle with this! We are not perfect, but a life devoted to Christ and a contrite heart and broken spirit God delights in! (Psalm 51) A life that yearns daily for his love, a life that needs nothing, no money, no clothes, no wanting of any kind, these God delights!

"Foxes have holes, birds of the air have nests, but the Son of God has nowhere to rest his head!" and again "do not worry about tomorrow, what you shall eat, what you shall wear, how much money you will have, for the Father knows you need all these, let tomorrow worry about tomorrow, for each day has enough trouble of it's own" everyday we are called to lay our minds on our Saviour, our hearts on our Lord.

So, you have tattoo's, does this lessen you as a Christian? Most certainly not! For you are right, what is on the outside does not matter to God, but what we do on the outside does. Do we show our faith through marking our bodies, as He say's for us not to? or rather do we show our faith through love, as He showed his faith in us through his love?

As for swearing, the term fool, is not a curse, the term fool is a perfectly acceptable word, it was not a term used to offend. Let us remember that in the Old Testament the language spoken was Hebrew, and in the New Testament Greek...the English term "fool" is only the equivalent of the phrases used.
The word "Fool" is a form of the word "folly" which in turn is used to describe in the Old Testament the failure to recognise that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. (Proverbs 1:7) Christ using of the term fool is not in anyway a cursing word. If it was so, Christ would have sinned against God, He would have spoken out of hate and malice in His heart. Thus negating His sacrifice for us, and in turn making our faith, useless. He would not have had the perfect love of God in Him. So understand that Christ using the word "fool" is not a cursive term. The scripture tells us, in Luke 6:45 "For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks"...(speaking of wicked men) and again in Matthew 12: 34-37...

"You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned"

Again in Proverbs it say's the tongue is sharper then any two edged sword...So i would ask how is that we can worship God with our prayers and yet we curse with the same tongue? We are called to live Holy, Loving Lives, dedicated to the Word that came through Christ Jesus. From the overflow of the heart speaks the tongue, how does our faith in Christ shine to others when they hear us talk with words that are offensive and slanderous. Rather we should speak to build each other up! To encourage our brothers and sisters! (Ephesians 4:29) again, in a Psalm of David, Psalm 39 reads, “I will guard my ways, that I may not sin with my tongue; I will guard my mouth with a muzzle, so long as the wicked are in my presence.” or again James 1:26 "If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless." How much more is it so for us, who are not called to be religious, but to be faithful and loving, that we should guard our hearts and tongues!

There is much more to be said about idle talk and what we say, for our heart speaks from our mouths.

I used to swear like a trooper, pointlessly and without shame, it wasn't until I realised that swearing, cursing, idle talk, crude joking, vulgar words had no place in my heart if Christ was my first Love. For what do the wicked and the righteous have in common? We are to be a light to those who do not know the Word that has come through Christ, we are to show them the love that Christ showed us, the power He has in our lives, and the difference he makes. This difference isn't just a set of rules that we follow, no! rather it is the Love of Christ that makes the difference, it is our Love of Him, we desire Him as much as He did us and there our hearts are calmed, our restless tongues put to ease, because we have Faith in His salvation, in His Love. So much so we cannot possibly go on sinning, and living as we once did. This is not something that happens overnight! For some it may, but for others it is a Faith struggle, in our weakness his Love is Glorified!

Now, finally, Sex. It is no sin, it is not something to abused though, for we do not need to look far to see the hold it has over the lives of those it possess. We are called to be of the Spirit and not the Flesh, we are to master our desire for the Flesh because it counts for nothing, but the Spirit lasts forever. We should and in the Gospels are told, we must, it is so important to our Spirit that we do, live life free from sexual immorality. The best way we can do this, is to wait it out, until marriage. Again, this is something I have failed to do. But by God's Grace, I am forgiven, but that does not mean I could do it again, God's forgiveness is not a license to sin and I desire the Lord more then I do any woman.

Also, The term Christian is generally accepted as being coined by one of the Apostles, it was not a derogatory term, the Roman Governors referred to Christians as pagans, because we did not believe in the Roman gods. The Jew's referred to Christians as "The Way" as a reference to when Christ said "I am the Way, The Truth and The Life"

As you said Christians should go back and read their Bible properly, because it has knowledge and wisdom in it beyond that of the worlds knowledge or wisdom...For it comes from God.

Belief in Christ isn't about religion, Christ spoke against the religious leaders, it's about our Love for Christ, and our Faith in Him. If our Love is sincere we cannot live like the world does, for we are called to be apart from it, to be Holy and to show Love as Christ did, He loved us even to death. So we should Love Him and his Truth and Way to death. Not saying we should go out and become Martyrs, but we should Live a life, that maybe others won't understand, But we live it because God's Love, the Love of His Son, Christ Jesus compels us...

It say's for His sake we face persecution all day long.

I pray this has helped you, It's helped me just to write it. :) I apologise for the length, and if it sounds preachy. It's just for you to consider.
Read the Word that God has given us! So that we may have strength beyond all strength each day.
 
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nutmeg88

Guest
#24
...I pray this has helped you, It's helped me just to write it. :) I apologise for the length, and if it sounds preachy. It's just for you to consider.
Read the Word that God has given us! So that we may have strength beyond all strength each day.[/quote]..

Firstly I don’t know about you but I no longer live under the levitican law, Jesus fulfilled the law giving us now only two commandments Mark 12:30-310Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[31The second is this: 'Love your neighbour as yourself. 'There is no commandment greater than these."

Secondly that verse in Leviticus is specifically talking about cutting your body for the dead, or marking it as a part of a ritual. Verse 19 also goes on to say 'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.’ I guarantee you that YOU would break that commandment nearly every single day as most of our clothing these days are made of two or more different types of material. If you are not prepared to uphold the entire livitican law, do not impose one part (that doesn’t even relate to modern day tattooing on me) which also means you better cut back on the beacon and start sacrificing animals.

And revelation describes Jesus coming back in his second coming with a tattoo on his thigh. "And on His robe and on His thigh. He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS." Revelation 19:16b

Jesus on many occasions called the Pharisees “A brood of vipers”, “white washed tombs” and He called Peter Satan at one stage as well. So his ‘language’ wasn’t exactly ‘Christianised’ He was honest.

As for the term fool, you’ll find if you research the language and the time, calling somebody a fool back then was one of the worst things you could say to someone. (Matthew 5:22) - "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."

Jesus’ First miracle was turning the water into wine, so no, considering he drank, I don’t think he has a problem with me drinking.

And I never said sex was evil, far from it. Lol. It’s a gift from God, best used inside marriage.

Your reply was epic, but I have to disagree on some levels. God has made everyone different and unique for a reason, just because I’m different, doesn’t mean I’m wrong. And the Old Testament is the priceless undisputable word of God, but it is not the covenant born again Christians live under anymore. Jesus came to fulfil the law, not that it does away with it, but it grants us so much more freedom than ever before. He even told Peter that he can eat any type of meat ext, something clearly against old testament law. Why? Because God cares more about the inward than the outward..
 
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nutmeg88

Guest
#26
Hey Tyler :D How's ..stuff ?
 
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lil-rush

Guest
#27
In reference to the Law:

1) Leviticus 19:19 "...and a garment made of a forbidden mixture of fabrics must not be worn by you." should be read alongside Deuteronomy 22:11 "You must not wear a garment of mixed fibers-wool and linen sewn together" Wool and linen! That is it. You cannot mix wool and linen together. God does not speak of any other sort of mixed fibers. Just wool and linen.

2) Leviticus 19:28 "And you must not make slashes on your skin in mourning for a dead person, nor make a tattoo on yourselves;..." Those are two separate commands there. God did not say "you cannot tattoo yourself for the dead," He said you cannot cut yourself for the dead. After saying that, He added that you cannot tattoo yourself. Period.

3) People can't sacrifice animals without a temple. Last time I check, Jerusalem is lacking a certain temple used for sacrificing animals.

If you're going to try and refute an argument with the Law, do it right or don't do it at all. Just saying.

As to this people being made different thing, I think you are stretching the limits of being different a bit. While we all have unique personality quarks, dislikes, likes, etc that does not mean we are all allowed to create special lifestyles for ourselves where we define what is and is not acceptable. We are told "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:2. You want to be different, fine, but you need to make sure that you are different only from the world, and not different from God. We are supposed to be imitators of God.

And God does care more about what is in our heart than what is on the outside, but others can tell what is in one's heart by what manifests on the outside. If what is going on on the outside is sinful, then that just goes to show that what is going on on the inside is sinful as well. I'm not saying you are sinful, I am just pointing out the flaws in your argument. People focus too much on certain scriptures just so they can try and excuse what they are doing. Instead they need to start looking at the big picture instead of focusing on one little part.
 
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Mal316

Guest
#28
The argument about following the Law goes something like this....

1: Follow the law! God says to do it.
2: No! Christ fulfilled the law. The levitical law was for the Jews. We're not under the law but under grace. You who say we should follow the Law, do you? If you don't, then you can't tell us to do it. Because then you're just a hypocrite.

Only someone who follows all the Law in every particular can tell another person to follow the Law? If I say the Law says don't get tattoos and don't have tattoos myself, am I therefore prohibited from advocating adherence to this law because I don't follow the Law perfectly in every particular?

You who say Christians can't be homosexual, do you gossip? Do you ever let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths? (This is not strictly about cussing. It's about the intent behind the words. Saying "You fool!" can be just as unwholesome as cussing). You therefore have no standing to condemn homosexuality when you yourself are as much a sinner as the one you condemn for being homosexual.