ARE DINO BONES REALLY 65 MLLION YEARS OLD?

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J

JesusExodus

Guest
#1
Can unfossilized red blood cells and DNA fragments of dinosaur bones really last for millions of years? Is it possible that these fragile organic molecules can last after millions and millions of years?

I was talking with a skeptic and she says that tissue and red blood cells do not rot all by themselves and that requires the presence of bacteria. No bacteria, no rotting.

Is is true?

She says that uranium-238, uranium-235 and potassium-40 methods are used instead of carbon-14. And that is how the age of dinosaur fossils are about 65 million years old.

She says that the same method is used in minerals all over the world to calculate the age of the earth.

Is this info true or half true or just simply false?
 
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HeIsNowHere

Guest
#2
Can unfossilized red blood cells and DNA fragments of dinosaur bones really last for millions of years? Is it possible that these fragile organic molecules can last after millions and millions of years?

I was talking with a skeptic and she says that tissue and red blood cells do not rot all by themselves and that requires the presence of bacteria. No bacteria, no rotting.

Is is true?

She says that uranium-238, uranium-235 and potassium-40 methods are used instead of carbon-14. And that is how the age of dinosaur fossils are about 65 million years old.

She says that the same method is used in minerals all over the world to calculate the age of the earth.

Is this info true or half true or just simply false?
Wow this skeptic is a bit uninformed about radiometic dating methods.
I do not know this persons background but Uranium and Potassium methods are NEVER used to date fossils and even if they were wild results would be generated. Of course someone may have done 1000 radiometic tests and found 1 that was close to what they wanted and that was the one they kept.

An informed person who has studied radiometric dating well knows that results are highly unreliable.
So many examples of their unreliablily exists it is pathetic when someone (if they are not just jacking their jaw) in an academic role would make such an invalid statement.

However, 25 species of dinosaurs that were frozen in Alaska were collected and analyzed by Cedarville College. I was informed that they used radio active Carbon 14 testing and found significant amouts in the samples. Now Carbon 14 has a half life of just over 5500 years and in 60,000 years there is no trace of it found. So these dinosaur bones using a much more reliable method are quite young. In fact the 50,000 - 60-000 year indication is based on non-changing rations which during the flood things changed and before things were very different as well. These dating methods make lots of assumptions that deem them unreliable.

But Radio Carbon was found in diamonds and coal samples from many places over the earth. This means they could be no more than 60,000 years old and diamonds are not subject to contamination like the evilutionists say happens ALWAYS to the biblical creation science samples. Ask her to explain that since the layers of rock those diamond and coal sample were taken from are well over 100 million years old according to evilutionists.

The Rate studies I am referring to are well documented withing a few years and done by the best radiometric labs in the world.

But my experience with people like this is no matter what kind of information you provide them they will explain it away. That is why a person must be ready to seek out who God is before they will convert to Christianity. If they Seek Him, they will find. But spending time arguing over facts like these is mostly a waste of time unless the skeptic is trying to seek God, then they may listen.
 
J

JesusExodus

Guest
#3
Good morning, thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions, I really appreciate it.

So I take it that from what you are saying carbon 14 dating method is the most reliable? Right?

What is your take on the issue of bacteria? If there is no bacteria then does that mean no rotting? Doesn't sound right to me. What u think?

I apologize for my ignorance but I am still learning.
 
R

rainacorn

Guest
#4
You should ask science questions on a science forum.

Unless you're looking specifically for responses that have been pushed through the filter of a Christian world view, this isn't the place to really ask about that.

Just my opinion.
 
J

JesusExodus

Guest
#5
Well the person I am directing the question to is HeIsNowHere, who seems to be knowledgeable about the subject at hand.
 
J

JesusExodus

Guest
#6
Not that no one else in here is able to add their two cents, they are more than welcome to give an intelligent answer to this topic. Doesn't matter, the truth is whats most important.
 
B

Babirusa

Guest
#7
Perhaps Radiometric dating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia helps. Note that the appropriate radiometric dating method is determined by a number of factors, including the age of the item to be dated. Carbon-14 is inappropriate for items that are millions of years old.

Can red blood cells and DNA last millions of years? Very unlikely, but is it impossible? An intriguing question to which I do not know the answer. I know there have been attempts to reproduce the DNA of insects that have been trapped for millions of years in amber, which apparently is considered the most promising environment, but so far I have not heard of any successful attempts.
 
M

mori

Guest
#8
What is your take on the issue of bacteria? If there is no bacteria then does that mean no rotting? Doesn't sound right to me. What u think?
Rot usually means biological decomposition, so if there are animals chewing on bones, no bacteria around (and viruses need live cells), there is no active biological decomposition.

However, certain chemicals fall apart on their own even in their ideal environments, cells dry out, pressure from physical objects can disrupt cell boundaries, etc. - but none of this is rot. If a cell is lucky and dries out quickly, it can last indefinitely. And organisms have lots of cells.

Keep in mind that individual organisms contain a huge number of copies of DNA. It would be more out of the ordinary if every single copy of were uniformly and completely destroyed. Keep in mind also that there are ways to "amplify" even single strands of DNA - because of the way DNA works, the molecule itself helps us reproduce it.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#9
You should ask science questions on a science forum.

Unless you're looking specifically for responses that have been pushed through the filter of a Christian world view, this isn't the place to really ask about that.

Just my opinion.






On another note: Instrumentalism! (It's clickable!)
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,321
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#10
The Bible tells us that the Earth is about 6000 yrs old..so I'm gonna believe that. Carbon dating does not work. A live penguin was once carbon dated to be 1000 yrs old
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#11
I heard a person who wrote a book about this sort of thing say that the earth can't be millions of years old because of the age of the sun and the rate that the earth's rotation slows every so many years.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,321
1,039
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#12
Kent Hovind has some goood info on this subject
 
J

JesusExodus

Guest
#13
Kent Hovind has some goood info on this subject
I have some of his apologetics but haven't seen any on this subject but then again, I haven't taken the time to go through all his debates or whatever. I was sad a few months ago when I learned that he was in prison for not paying taxes. He's a superb apologist, very smart man and hopefully he is doing a lot of studying while in prison with all that time on his hands now.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#14
Kent Hovind has some goood info on this subject
No, I wouldn't use Kent Hovind at all.

EDIT: I say this as a Young Earth Creationist.
 
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HeIsNowHere

Guest
#15
Good morning, thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions, I really appreciate it.

So I take it that from what you are saying carbon 14 dating method is the most reliable? Right?

What is your take on the issue of bacteria? If there is no bacteria then does that mean no rotting? Doesn't sound right to me. What u think?

I apologize for my ignorance but I am still learning.
I am not a bio-chemist but I have heard a few of them including Dr. Gary Parker speak that DNA decay rates (even in isolated environments) break down rapidly and do not last millions of years. But you can research this information.

The unminerlized portions of fossils that are supposedly millions of years old are very common, never mentioned by evolutionists, and are a big problem for them no matter how hard they try to dismiss this fless and blood which they proclaim without any observable science at all to be millions of years old.

Keep in mind they have the same facts that Biblical Creationists have. It is not about them having facts and Biblical Creationists not having facts at all. It is about their interpretation of the facts that are based on an anti-Creator, naturalist worldview. Biblical Creationists interprest the facts based on design and an entirely different worldview.

Do not be fooled by these people, it is not about THEIR SCIENCE vs Biblical Creation RELIGION at all, rather it is about their RELIGION vs CHRISTIANITY. Modern Science was founded by Biblical Creationists not evolutionists. Biblical Creations love and respect OBSERVABLE science so do not let them persuade you that this is not true. Thousands of brilliant Biblical Creationists science exist today in the world. These guys lie about this fact and make it sound like no scientist hold to Biblical Creation views. That again is a LIE.

They play a lot of word games to justify what they say. For example they will define science as natural processes based on no designer and no creator. This is a religious position not a position of science. Science is only that which is observed and repeatable. But then sometime if you ask them if science is what is observed and repeatable they will agree. Then you ask them about UI universal information that is based on scientific laws that coding systems and coded information requires a creative force such as the DNA code of life which requires a CREATOR and they will deny that is science when in fact they are no denying science but do so from a religious perspective.

See the problem?
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,321
1,039
113
#16
I have some of his apologetics but haven't seen any on this subject but then again, I haven't taken the time to go through all his debates or whatever. I was sad a few months ago when I learned that he was in prison for not paying taxes. He's a superb apologist, very smart man and hopefully he is doing a lot of studying while in prison with all that time on his hands now.
yeah,,,i hate that all that happened.. I hope it doesnt discredit him, because he has some really good info
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#17
yeah,,,i hate that all that happened.. I hope it doesnt discredit him, because he has some really good info
No, I hate to criticize the home team by Kent Hovind for the most part did not use good information. I do not know whether he knew or it not, but some of it was fabricated. Such as the Paluxey river tracks.
 
Y

yaright

Guest
#18
I have been shown some facets of creation language. It's a way of saying the existence of one part of creation that can be seen, will reveal the part which cannot be seen because it is spiritual in nature. I have no understanding of dating something to a specific time and place. I believe the argument of time dating causes some people to search for answers. I find the argument for better understanding is valid. Without the debate, without the challenges, there would be no support for the cause of truth. Not knowing has no foundation to build upon. But the search for understanding is the beginning of that foundation. I've spent a large part of my life of salvation searching what God has done. Because of this I have understanding of certain aspects of creation. I look forward to seeing and hearing the results found by people who search the things which are hidden. It takes a dedication that only a few give their lives for. So, to fail, and to succeed, are both part of understanding.
 
W

weakness

Guest
#19
You should ask science questions on a science forum.

Unless you're looking specifically for responses that have been pushed through the filter of a Christian world view, this isn't the place to really ask about that.

Just my opinion.
I'm a biologist. I'm tired of constantly seeing and hearing christian so call , fordce the issue into the dualistic veiww. That being either creationist or evolutionist. Very few answeres are either or. I know many scientist and almost all of them beleive in God and are crationist ,but, the also adhere to principles of evolution ,which do I Evolution is just trying to stay one step ahead of death by adaptation and change .I think god was, in his forknowledge,being pretty smart knowing the nature of satan to create within creation this ability.Most of us don'teven know what's in our drinking water let alone be able to evaluate scientific articles possibly written for either sides self serving motives.I know that I have heard HUNDREDS of fale statements and misrepresentation of the truth.
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#20
I'm a biologist. I'm tired of constantly seeing and hearing christian so call , fordce the issue into the dualistic veiww. That being either creationist or evolutionist. Very few answeres are either or. I know many scientist and almost all of them beleive in God and are crationist ,but, the also adhere to principles of evolution ,which do I Evolution is just trying to stay one step ahead of death by adaptation and change .I think god was, in his forknowledge,being pretty smart knowing the nature of satan to create within creation this ability.Most of us don'teven know what's in our drinking water let alone be able to evaluate scientific articles possibly written for either sides self serving motives.I know that I have heard HUNDREDS of fale statements and misrepresentation of the truth.
high five?