Are pre-tribbers the firstfruits?

[miktre]

This is a lie you will see all over the internet. There can be only one "fruitfruits". Are those who get raptured away the 'firstfruits' or is this just another false teaching? They say "Oh, if you only understood the festival of the firstfruits", lies upon lies.


The very truth from God's word is that the 144,000 are the firstfruits, not the raptured.

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


Remember so the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
Luk 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

 

[zone]

This is a lie you will see all over the internet. There can be only one "fruitfruits". Are those who get raptured away the 'firstfruits' or is this just another false teaching? They say "Oh, if you only understood the festival of the firstfruits", lies upon lies.


The very truth from God's word is that the 144,000 are the firstfruits, not the raptured.

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

and since this is fulfilled, its just more silly pretrib fable

 

[miktre]

and since this is fulfilled, its just more silly pretrib fable

You believe the 144,00 is not in the last days, first shall be last?

 

[KJV1611]

Firstfruit means exactly what it says... the first fruits of the harvest. I garden, and we gather a few first fruits at the begining of the season, then later on in the season the mother load comes in.

I believe the firstfruits were gathered when Christ and those that were resurrected with him rose from the dead. Jesus and the Old Testament saints were the first fruits.

 

[miktre]

Firstfruit means exactly what it says... the first fruits of the harvest. I garden, and we gather a few first fruits at the begining of the season, then later on in the season the mother load comes in.

I believe the firstfruits were gathered when Christ and those that were resurrected with him rose from the dead. Jesus and the Old Testament saints were the first fruits.

Interesting, I've entertained that same thought and this scripture seems to say the same.
Do you believe the 144,000 are with Christ already then?

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[KJV1611]

Interesting, I've entertained that same thought and this scripture seems to say the same.
Do you believe the 144,000 are with Christ already then?

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Yes I believe the 144,000 are with Christ. One thing is for sure Miktre, everything that most people believe about the book of Revelation is wrong. The only thing I see future in the book of Revelation is the return of Christ and the 1000 year reign.

 

[miktre]

Yes I believe the 144,000 are with Christ. One thing is for sure Miktre, everything that most people believe about the book of Revelation is wrong. The only thing I see future in the book of Revelation is the return of Christ and the 1000 year reign.

I believe there is a little more to it than that. Example:
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

[KJV1611]

I believe there is a little more to it than that. Example:
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But verses like those I believe are like Mat 24:29. Mat 24:29 is not talking about the literal sun, moon and stars.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days... AD 70. I don't understand all the symbolism of the sun, moon and stars, but I believe it is related to the Old Covenant passing away and Israel being destroyed.

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

And maybe I'm wrong, maybe there is more to Revelation than just the second coming of Christ and the 1000 year reign. I still have a lot to learn from that book.

 

[miktre]

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But verses like those I believe are like Mat 24:29. Mat 24:29 is not talking about the literal sun, moon and stars.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days... AD 70. I don't understand all the symbolism of the sun, moon and stars, but I believe it is related to the Old Covenant passing away and Israel being destroyed.

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

And maybe I'm wrong, maybe there is more to Revelation than just the second coming of Christ and the 1000 year reign. I still have a lot to learn from that book.

Oh, I didn't realize you were a 70ADer.
I can't believe the 70AD theory on several points and yes it's easy to symbolize anything that's disagreeable away.
Is not the entire subject of Matthew 24 the end of the world?
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Without derailing this thread I think it would be a great topic to start a new thread with.

 

[KJV1611]

Oh, I didn't realize you were a 70ADer.
I can't believe the 70AD theory on several points and yes it's easy to symbolize anything that's disagreeable away.
Is not the entire subject of Matthew 24 the end of the world?
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Without derailing this thread I think it would be a great topic to start a new thread with.

Great topic! I am not really a 70ADer, I'm a last 2000 yearer lol.