Are we under law and grace or just under grace which is it

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Mo0448

Senior Member
Jun 10, 2013
1,209
15
38
#61
Hello,

This is a great topic and it delves on two very interesting points Grace & Law. I am a firm believer in Grace, and the best way to examine it is in Paul's letters. This guy one of my favorite new testament individuals; he is the epitome of Grace.


[h=3]Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ[/h]6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
[h=3]Slaves to Righteousness[/h]15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6


One could argue though if we are indeed living in Grace and if Grace is the way to live then why is it that we first had the law? Well interestingly enough there were over 600 Laws that Moses gave to the Israelites and later on the Pharisees added another 300 or so How can one live in holiness with God in communion following over 900 Laws? Imagine the arguments that would break out I'm following Laws 1-400 I am doing better off than you only following the first 100. The Law was created so that we would know firstly what we needed to do to be in communion with God, to know what God expects, and also to allow us to realize that ITS IMPOSSIBLE to fulfill all of God's expectations we cannot do it...not alone at least! That's where the Law allowed us to see what was expected and why we could never fulfill these expectations because we are so darn sinful what was the punishment for not following the Law? Death we were all doomed to die....cue to Jesus who became the living example of fulfillment to the law and took upon himself our punishment for our sins and died a perfect sinless sacrifice for all who acknowledged his sinless life and his resurrection that through HIM and HIM alone we can "bypass" that punishment of death and be given life.

This is why we live in Grace; it is our acknowledgement that we cannot fulfill the law and therefore need Jesus to fulfill it for us. Living through the law disregards Jesus' actions on the cross and undermines his sacrifice. It suggests that we can "eventually" be worthy we can eventually follow everything we can eventually be "holy". God made it clear it is only through Grace that we are saved through Christ and not our works so that we not "boast". Imagine if works saved us?! I am certain many would declare themselves more holy than others since they do "more works" than others imagine that! Even knowing works do not save us, many "Pharisees" go around proclaiming how much they do for God what if it was through works that we were saved?

This is my argument as to why it is through Grace and not the law. Granted the Law needed to come before grace so that we would recognize that we could not fulfill God's expectations that we needed one to save us :)

[h=3]Ephesians 2[/h]
[h=3]Made Alive in Christ[/h]2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to livewhen you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


God Bless!


Best,

Moyses Franco
 
W

Widdekind

Guest
#62
so, nobody works their way to Salvation ("dead works of the Law" Heb 6); but after attaining Salvation by believing faith, everybody works towards the Salvation of others (works of Love, like Charity for orphans & Widows, James 1).
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,026
106
63
#63
so, nobody works their way to Salvation ("dead works of the Law" Heb 6); but after attaining Salvation by believing faith, everybody works towards the Salvation of others (works of Love, like Charity for orphans & Widows, James 1).
Yes we do as a response to the amazing gift shoutiing it out from the roof tops waht God has done, not man, when man takes credit and or others give credit to man, man tends to get boastful and forget where he came form and waht God did foir him, our first love, it talks about this in revelations, where we tend to forget about the praises and worshipto God being so busy with man made works, flesh our old self crowds out everyone else while they are doing good for others.
There is a fine differance in what type of works am I doing, and each I think to take ourselves and look at ourselves and ask God to teach us and show us, and hear others when they say things to us, but always sift everything through our hearts where our inner man liveth, For this is where we serve God in wholeness of the Spirit of God, forsaking the flesh that only serves the law of sin and death. So if any of us think we know, and I have done this many a time then maybe we don't really know, because when humility leaves, I have found pride and arrogance steps in and I need to be buffeted as Paul talked about in 2cor 12