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Amazingly, you've failed to demonstrate that God thinks 21st century atheists will be converted by quoting scripture at them which they do not believe in anyway. Have you considered that this would be pretty much as effective as a Muslim quoting the Quran at you?
Again, I'm not specifically disagreeing with the OP - all I'm saying is that an atheist simply isn't going to care about what the bible says. Why should they?
Lurker
Again, I'm not specifically disagreeing with the OP - all I'm saying is that an atheist simply isn't going to care about what the bible says. Why should they?
Lurker
A
that's ok I don't care what atheist say, why should I? (unless it is to tell us they want to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior).
I think we as Christians need to refocus on what is important: talking about God and His will for our lives and His promises and His Glory.
If atheist and others want to read or join the discussion, that is fine. they can praise God and His majesty too.
Psalm 5
To the Chief Musician. With flutes.[a] A Psalm of David.
1 Give ear to my words, O LORD,
Consider my meditation.
2 Give heed to the voice of my cry,
My King and my God,
For to You I will pray.
3 My voice You shall hear in the morning, O LORD;
In the morning I will direct it to You,
And I will look up.
4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness,
Nor shall evil dwell with You.
5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.
6 You shall destroy those who speak falsehood;
The LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
7 But as for me, I will come into Your house in the multitude of Your mercy;
In fear of You I will worship toward Your holy temple.
8 Lead me, O LORD, in Your righteousness because of my enemies;
Make Your way straight before my face.
9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth;
Their inward part is destruction;
Their throat is an open tomb;
They flatter with their tongue.
10 Pronounce them guilty, O God!
Let them fall by their own counsels;
Cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions,
For they have rebelled against You.
11 But let all those rejoice who put their trust in You;
Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them;
Let those also who love Your name
Be joyful in You.
12 For You, O LORD, will bless the righteous;
With favor You will surround him as with a shield.
I think we as Christians need to refocus on what is important: talking about God and His will for our lives and His promises and His Glory.
If atheist and others want to read or join the discussion, that is fine. they can praise God and His majesty too.
Psalm 5
To the Chief Musician. With flutes.[a] A Psalm of David.
1 Give ear to my words, O LORD,
Consider my meditation.
2 Give heed to the voice of my cry,
My King and my God,
For to You I will pray.
3 My voice You shall hear in the morning, O LORD;
In the morning I will direct it to You,
And I will look up.
4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness,
Nor shall evil dwell with You.
5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.
6 You shall destroy those who speak falsehood;
The LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
7 But as for me, I will come into Your house in the multitude of Your mercy;
In fear of You I will worship toward Your holy temple.
8 Lead me, O LORD, in Your righteousness because of my enemies;
Make Your way straight before my face.
9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth;
Their inward part is destruction;
Their throat is an open tomb;
They flatter with their tongue.
10 Pronounce them guilty, O God!
Let them fall by their own counsels;
Cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions,
For they have rebelled against You.
11 But let all those rejoice who put their trust in You;
Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them;
Let those also who love Your name
Be joyful in You.
12 For You, O LORD, will bless the righteous;
With favor You will surround him as with a shield.
T
Sure, we can find logical reasons to believe God and I think atheists can also find logical reasons to believe there is no God, but it doesn't matter. I have recently come to a point where I understand that our minds are so limited. There comes a point where we cannot explain or prove things any further. Logic and reasoning just won't help us find the truth about everything, it may even lead people astray (like it has a lot of atheists).
The important thing is that a person would hunger and seek for truth in his spirit. It's something deeper than just logical reasoning. This is when God can come and draw a person.
No man can come to Me unless the Father who hath sent Me draw him ...
John 6:44
If God is at work, then logic doesn't even play a role. A person might hear just one verse of scripture and God can touch that persons heart through that in such a powerful way that the person gets saved.
The important thing is that a person would hunger and seek for truth in his spirit. It's something deeper than just logical reasoning. This is when God can come and draw a person.
No man can come to Me unless the Father who hath sent Me draw him ...
John 6:44
If God is at work, then logic doesn't even play a role. A person might hear just one verse of scripture and God can touch that persons heart through that in such a powerful way that the person gets saved.
V
@1still_waters
In response to your comment: "1. Anyone who thinks God doesn't exist is a fool... The fool says in his heart there is no God. Psalm 14:1... Last I checked, fools weren't reasonable, logical, rational or clear thinking."
Matthew 5:22 Also says: “Whoever says, 'you fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."
Best be careful about what you type
In response to your comment: "1. Anyone who thinks God doesn't exist is a fool... The fool says in his heart there is no God. Psalm 14:1... Last I checked, fools weren't reasonable, logical, rational or clear thinking."
Matthew 5:22 Also says: “Whoever says, 'you fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."
Best be careful about what you type
V
I am curious as to how you arrive at that conclusion: "an atheist, by definition, claims omniscience"
I’ll concede that “atheism” is a somewhat ambiguous term; meaning that its definition can slightly vary depending on the person you ask (just as it can for the definition of what a christian is as there are over 41,000 denominations of the religion).
Atheism Can be defined as any of the following:
- The belief that God does not exist
- A person who lacks belief in god or gods
- A person who denies the existence of a god/s
- The absence of theistic belief
It is important to note that “I do not believe in X” is not the same as claiming that “X cannot exist” While some atheists will claim with certainty that no gods exist, others concede that the existence of god/s is logically possible, but think that it is unjustifiable to believe in one without adequate evidence.
I can see how you could suggest that an atheist who claims no gods exist ‘claims omniscience’ but not for one that simply does not believe.
I’ll concede that “atheism” is a somewhat ambiguous term; meaning that its definition can slightly vary depending on the person you ask (just as it can for the definition of what a christian is as there are over 41,000 denominations of the religion).
Atheism Can be defined as any of the following:
- The belief that God does not exist
- A person who lacks belief in god or gods
- A person who denies the existence of a god/s
- The absence of theistic belief
It is important to note that “I do not believe in X” is not the same as claiming that “X cannot exist” While some atheists will claim with certainty that no gods exist, others concede that the existence of god/s is logically possible, but think that it is unjustifiable to believe in one without adequate evidence.
I can see how you could suggest that an atheist who claims no gods exist ‘claims omniscience’ but not for one that simply does not believe.
The bible is filled with atheist. God always treated them as simply people who had chosen death, but welcomed them any time they chose life. God teaches us, and they can come to us to learn. God sometimes uses them to work out His plans, but God simply leaves them alone otherwise except to be sure we welcome them if they want to come to Him.
I sometimes listen to them when they discover a way that God operates our world. They often say how smart they are when they tell us, as if they didn't discover a way of God, but they take credit for it. I check scripture with their discovery and sometimes it explains scripture. I'm sure you have all read about when the world discovered that when God said the four corners of the world it didn't mean it was flat.
I don't think God wants us to debate with them. They are spiritually blind, that is the beginning and end of their thinking. They are dead. God can make them live, but it wouldn't be our arguments that did it, but their opening themselves to God and God entering in.
I sometimes listen to them when they discover a way that God operates our world. They often say how smart they are when they tell us, as if they didn't discover a way of God, but they take credit for it. I check scripture with their discovery and sometimes it explains scripture. I'm sure you have all read about when the world discovered that when God said the four corners of the world it didn't mean it was flat.
I don't think God wants us to debate with them. They are spiritually blind, that is the beginning and end of their thinking. They are dead. God can make them live, but it wouldn't be our arguments that did it, but their opening themselves to God and God entering in.
What holds for atheists below also hold for all 'religious' people...
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
(Joh 3:19-20)
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
(Joh 1:10-11)
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
(Joh 3:19-20)
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
(Joh 1:10-11)
V
@CoooCaw
"An Atheist by definition definitively states - "there is NO god” if he simply does not know then he is an A-Gnostic”
The definitions I provided are ones that are utilized in practice and in reputable dictionaries. Most of the atheists I know do not definitively state that there is no god. That is not a requirement of atheism (according to most atheists and most definitions of the term). Furthermore, many of the atheists I know suggest that “Agnostic” and “Atheist” are not mutually exclusive. Agnostic - can be its own position, or it can be a statement about your knowledge on the matter (If you can or cannot know/be certain), where as theism & atheism are statements of belief.
Perhaps the issue here is that these terms are Ambiguous. you are defining them in one what that does apply to some individuals who identify with the term. But other definitions conflict with the one you are using & some self-identified atheists do not fit your definition.
"An Atheist by definition definitively states - "there is NO god” if he simply does not know then he is an A-Gnostic”
The definitions I provided are ones that are utilized in practice and in reputable dictionaries. Most of the atheists I know do not definitively state that there is no god. That is not a requirement of atheism (according to most atheists and most definitions of the term). Furthermore, many of the atheists I know suggest that “Agnostic” and “Atheist” are not mutually exclusive. Agnostic - can be its own position, or it can be a statement about your knowledge on the matter (If you can or cannot know/be certain), where as theism & atheism are statements of belief.
Perhaps the issue here is that these terms are Ambiguous. you are defining them in one what that does apply to some individuals who identify with the term. But other definitions conflict with the one you are using & some self-identified atheists do not fit your definition.
V
@danschance
"Atheism - the belief that everything came from nothing.”
Straw man argument : a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.
To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
"Atheism - the belief that everything came from nothing.”
Straw man argument : a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.
To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.