Calling ALL Greek Students of the Word

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Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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#1
I am calling all those who resort to the Greek for understanding His words to translate John 16:13 and explained what that means on how the Holy Spirit can speak only what He hears & then translate Romans 8:26 on how His intercessions are unutterable & to see how His unspeakable intercessions are known to God by Someone Else knowing the mind of the Spirit's in Romans 8:27.

HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version

Feel free to use that site above with the Strong's Concordance on the Greek or choose your own site.

Remember; scripture cannot go against scripture, and so John 16:13 should line up with Romans 8:26-27 in keeping in line with the truths from both of those passages in scripture.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#2
I am afraid its more your theological problem, not so much a textual problem.

Because the context of each verse is different (even the books are different).

So there is no actual discrepancy between the two, they are about different things. And it is your mistake that you try to make them to say the same thing.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#3
I am afraid its more your theological problem, not so much a textual problem.

Because the context of each verse is different (even the books are different).

So there is no actual discrepancy between the two, they are about different things. And it is your mistake that you try to make them to say the same thing.
I gotta go with that... language is more than a collection of definitions.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,372
2,448
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#4
To start with, these two verses are talking about COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

Basic, rudimentary logic doesn't require a decade of Greek study.





2 completely different contextual scenarios:

A. The Believer:
John 16:13 is talking about how the Holy Spirit communes with THE BELIEVER.

B. The Father:
Romans 8:26 is talking about how the Holy Spirit communes with THE FATHER.



These 2 verses, with their contextual scenarios, needn't be the same:

There is NO requirement in scripture that these two different communication methods should be the same.

There is NO requirement in scripture that the Holly spirit should not, or could not, commune with the Father differently than the Believer.



These 2 communication methods are not said to be exclusive or exhaustive:

A. Exclusive:
The scripture does not say the Spirit CANNOT commune with the Father in some other way if he chooses, or that the Holy Spirit cannot commune with the believer in some other way if he chooses. The methods of communication listed in these verses are not claimed to be exclusive to ONLY the circumstances given.

B. Exhaustive:
There is nothing to say these 2 verses give us the COMPLETE and EXHAUSTIVE list of methods in which the Holy Spirit can communicate, in these, or in ANY OTHER circumstances.

* These two methods of communications are neither said to be exclusive to the context of each verse, nor are they said to be an exhaustive explanation of all possible communication methods.



I would say this whole ordeal is making mountains out of molehills...
but I don't even see the molehills.




 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#5
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

There is no contradiction and what's the problem.....One speaks of the Spirit leading and guiding us into the truth from God unto man and the other speaks to the spirit making intercession on our behalf back to God.......
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#6
I am afraid its more your theological problem, not so much a textual problem.

Because the context of each verse is different (even the books are different).

So there is no actual discrepancy between the two, they are about different things. And it is your mistake that you try to make them to say the same thing.
If you want to pass it up because you do not want Jesus Christ to prove yourself wrong, then you are free to do so.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#7
I gotta go with that... language is more than a collection of definitions.
So basically, you are saying that truth is relevant and the truth in one scripture can go against other truth in scripture.

So you accept the lost books as part of the Bible as scripture too? But I digress.

If you want to pass on the challenge, you are free to do so.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,724
13,398
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#8
... because one thread on the subject wasn't enough?

Enow, are you aware that using Strong's as your lexicon (not merely as a concordance) to defend your view that the KJV has the correct translation is circular reasoning, and that everything built on such reasoning is therefore invalidated?
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#9
To start with, these two verses are talking about COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

Basic, rudimentary logic doesn't require a decade of Greek study.





2 completely different contextual scenarios:

A. The Believer:
John 16:13 is talking about how the Holy Spirit communes with THE BELIEVER.
How is that? When He can only speaks what He hears? That means He is speaking audibly. This pertains to prophesy and tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people and the interpretations of those tongues.

B. The Father:
Romans 8:26 is talking about how the Holy Spirit communes with THE FATHER.
And yet you overlook the Greek word alaletos in verse 26 that His intermissions are unutterable for which He needs another knowing the mind of the Spirit to give the unspeakable intercessions of the Spirit's for Him to the Father.

These 2 verses, with their contextual scenarios, needn't be the same:

There is NO requirement in scripture that these two different communication methods should be the same.

There is NO requirement in scripture that the Holly spirit should not, or could not, commune with the Father differently than the Believer.



These 2 communication methods are not said to be exclusive or exhaustive:

A. Exclusive:
The scripture does not say the Spirit CANNOT commune with the Father in some other way if he chooses, or that the Holy Spirit cannot commune with the believer in some other way if he chooses. The methods of communication listed in these verses are not claimed to be exclusive to ONLY the circumstances given.

B. Exhaustive:
There is nothing to say these 2 verses give us the COMPLETE and EXHAUSTIVE list of methods in which the Holy Spirit can communicate, in these, or in ANY OTHER circumstances.

* These two methods of communications are neither said to be exclusive to the context of each verse, nor are they said to be an exhaustive explanation of all possible communication methods.



I would say this whole ordeal is making mountains out of molehills...
but I don't even see the molehills.
You might as well say what the devil has been saying by all of those modern Bibles; did God really say that?

1 John 2:[SUP]0 [/SUP]But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.[SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Makes me wonder how any one can correct any one by the Word of God when doubts can come in like that.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,372
2,448
113
#10
Dan
Originally Posted by Dan_473


I gotta go with that... language is more than a collection of definitions.
Enow
So basically, you are saying that truth is relevant and the truth in one scripture can go against other truth in scripture.

So you accept the lost books as part of the Bible as scripture too? But I digress.

If you want to pass on the challenge, you are free to do so.


Enow,

No... what he's saying is that YOU CAN'T READ.




 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#11
... because one thread on the subject wasn't enough?

Enow, are you aware that using Strong's as your lexicon (not merely as a concordance) to defend your view that the KJV has the correct translation is circular reasoning, and that everything built on such reasoning is therefore invalidated?
I was asking people who keep side stepping the issue by saying go to the Greek to actually translate John 16:13 and compare the truth in John 16:13 with Romans 8:26-27 if comparing John 16:13 of all modern Bibles with Romans 8:26-27 of all modern Bibles is NOT what you guys are going to do to see that the KJV is the only one that has them both correct.

But you guys are not going to do what the OP is asking you to do, and all of your replies is just going to scare all those that would have done it away for fear of agreeing with me and becoming labled as a KJVonly extremist which I am not of that extreme mentality when I am saying that the KJV has all the meats in His words that lines up with all the scripture to reprove the works of darkness.

But of course, if you are defending those works of darkness, it stands to reason Biblically why you will not do it.

Psalm 127:1Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.[SUP]2 [/SUP]It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep.

And you are one that would defend tongues without interpretation to be used as a prayer language GAINED by a special extra filling of the Holy Spirit as standing apart from salvation, are you not?

Then truly it is vain to try to correct any one in here on any other work of darkness, because scripture cannot be used here and thus the God is not building here.

Thanks for making me leave the discussion and scaring everybody away from actually doing the challenge. That is how they do it at CARM.

Matthew 13:[SUP]20 [/SUP]But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;[SUP]21 [/SUP]Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Amos 8:[SUP]11 [/SUP]Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:[SUP]12 [/SUP]And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

It is no wonder why so many believers are seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit in these latter days because modern Bibles makes it impossible to see the truth in His words to expose the works of darkness that denies them as having been filled.

The gospel of tongues will be rebuked by the Lord Jesus Christ at the pre tribulational rapture event,and all those in that iniquity that denies Him.... will be denied by Him, but He will get those lost sheep that went stray after the great tribulation.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#12
So basically, you are saying that truth is relevant and the truth in one scripture can go against other truth in scripture.

So you accept the lost books as part of the Bible as scripture too? But I digress.

If you want to pass on the challenge, you are free to do so.
I think truth is relevant.

did you mean relative? (my tablet changes words on me all the time)

language translation is highly relative, to the source culture and the destination.