Can an 'elder' in the church be a woman, per Scripture's definition ?

[GreenNnice]

We are ALL called to minister, to do good,and to bless those around us. In fact, God requires ALL PEOPLE, saved andunsaved, to lead holy lives, and to treat others as God would. But Godgives certain gifts, rolls, and positions to certain, select people, of HISchoice, not ours.

{While, in the absence of the appropriate person or specified gender, God willuse ANYONE in ANY position (God used the anti-Christ Caiaphas toprophecy the necessity of Christ's death for the salvation of all - John11:49 & 50) these special circumstances do NOT give everyone free licenseto assume any and all ministries and roles in any but extenuating circumstances).}

Broader than just certain individuals, God has given each GENDER its own rolesand responsibilities. God has specifically stated that MEN are to bethe leaders and teachers in the church, and to be those who speak out in theBody. I do not need to list these passages; they are available for thesincere to read. The challenge in all discussions such as this tends tobe in counteracting the heretical claims of the least obedient that somepassages in the Bible are not of God! As usual the disobedience of sometends to attempt the turning of the hearts of the obedient to unbelief anddisobedience, for the sake of justifying the sin of the disobedient. Just as, "Misery loves company," so, "Sin cravesthe support of others," as though truth can be established bydemocratic or mob rule.

God tells us, through Paul, "34 Let your women keep silence in thechurches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commandedto be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learnany thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women tospeak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or cameit unto you only? 37 IF ANY MAN THINKHIMSELF TO BE A PROPHET, OR SPIRITUAL, LET HIM ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE THINGS THATI WRITE UNTO YOU ARE THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. 38 But if any man beignorant, let him be ignorant.” - I Corinthians 12. God's New Testament commandments do not change;"Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Peter writes that, "Paul's letters contain some things that arehard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do theother SCRIPTURES, to their own destruction." - II Peter 3:15-16 Obeying God, as He's revealed Himself in HisScripture, is a matter of exactly that: obeying Him. Trying to convincethe disobedient of the validity and value of Scripture is like trying to arguetheology with the unsaved: obedience to God is simply a matter of the heart,not the mind. "If ye love me, keep my commandments." -John 14:15 "By this we know that we love the children of God, whenwe love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, thatwe keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome." I John5:3

So, in response to the question of whether a woman can be an elder in thechurch, the reply is in God's statement through Paul: "But I permit not awoman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence."I Timothy 2:12. The answer need not be complicated; it is givenhere. It's simply up to us to obey it. Whether it is or isn'tburdensome depends on whether we love God.

Wrong.

A woman can be an elder. Read 1 Timothy 3 and you will understand that, definitely, for this question, a woman CAN be an 'elder' in her church , and, with that role, to some extent, depends on who you talk to, DOES carry a measure of authority.
She is someone whom others look up to and she, therefore, HAS authority, in that sense.

Going into detail on the definition of 'elder' is what's next in question. And, to me, an elder is someone who serves in 'some' capacity for the church, they don't just attend the worship service as a woman (or man, for that matter). AN ELDER IS MORE INVOLVED IN THE CHURCH THAN A PARISHIONER, who just goes with her husband/wife and checks in at 11 and goes home at 12, after "potluck," that is

 

[CoooCaw]

YES,

provided that she is...
the husband of one wife
given to hospitality
apt to teach
rules her own house well

 

[PoxEclipse]

Here are some "scriptures" and ideas to ponder.

Do you really need to elevate people, who are already struggling with humility, into positions of "authority" so that pride and self righteousness can take hold? Where you desire to "promote" to yourselves an "elder" you effectively condemn that man by putting a stumbling block before him.

Can anyone show me where Christ handed out "hall monitor" badges so that people could Lord their own "authority" over others?

Why is this concept so difficult to grasp for the majority of you?

Why must you argue with each other over something so fundamental to your own faith as HUMILITY?

Why won't you turn to the Father for answers and realize that "scriptures" are just the curriculum/course materials. The Father is the one who does the teaching, not the textbook.

Here's a question for you.

Who among you would tell the Father that whoever HE CHOOSES to do HIS WILL isn't acceptable to you because of their genitalia.

It seems to me that if the apostles were struggling with "authority" and Christ had to "clarify" things for them...how much further will you fall short of understanding, not having walked with Christ in person?

Perhaps a study on humility would be in order?

Peoples, it's not about "authority." It's about love and service to each other. If you truly love someone, don't elect them to be an elder.

Okay? Clarified? Good!

May the Lord bless and keep you!




Rank in the Kingdom

Matthew 18

At that [SUP][a][/SUP]time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” [SUP]2 [/SUP]And He called a child to Himself and set him [SUP][b][/SUP]before them, [SUP]3 [/SUP]and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you [SUP][c][/SUP]are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; [SUP]6 [/SUP]but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it [SUP][d][/SUP]would be better for him to have a [SUP][e][/SUP]heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Matthew 23

[SUP]6 [/SUP]They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Do not be called [SUP][b][/SUP]leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But the greatest among you shall be your servant. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

Mark 9

[SUP]33 [/SUP]They came to Capernaum; and when He [SUP][t][/SUP]was in the house, He began to question them, “What were you discussing on the way?” [SUP]34 [/SUP]But they kept silent, for on the way they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Sitting down, He called the twelve and *said to them, “If anyone wants to be first, [SUP][u][/SUP]he shall be last of all and servant of all.” [SUP]36 [/SUP]Taking a child, He set him [SUP][v][/SUP]before them, and taking him in His arms, He said to them, [SUP]37 [/SUP]“Whoever receives [SUP][w][/SUP]one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”

The Test of Greatness

Luke 9
[SUP]46 [/SUP]An argument [SUP][aa][/SUP]started among them as to which of them might be the greatest. [SUP]47 [/SUP]But Jesus, knowing [SUP][ab][/SUP]what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, [SUP]48 [/SUP]and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”


Who Is Greatest

Luke 22

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And there arose also a dispute among them as to which one of them was regarded to be greatest. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And He said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who have authority over them are called ‘Benefactors.’ [SUP]26 [/SUP]But it is not this way with you, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the servant. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at the table? But I am among you as the one who serves.

 

[PoxEclipse]

On a side note...perhaps the MEN here could learn a thing or two about HUMILITY from these "scriptures?"


Parable of Two Debtors

Luke 7
[SUP]
40 [/SUP]And Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” And he [SUP][ad][/SUP]replied, “Say it, Teacher.” [SUP]41 [/SUP]“A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred [SUP][ae][/SUP]denarii, and the other fifty. [SUP]42 [/SUP]When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?” [SUP]43 [/SUP]Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.” And He said to him, “You have judged correctly.” [SUP]44 [/SUP]Turning toward the woman, He said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has wet My feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. [SUP]45 [/SUP]You gave Me no kiss; but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss My feet. [SUP]46 [/SUP]You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume. [SUP]47 [/SUP]For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.” [SUP]48 [/SUP]Then He said to her, “Your sins have been forgiven.” [SUP]49 [/SUP]Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say [SUP][af][/SUP]to themselves, “Who is this man who even forgives sins?” [SUP]50 [/SUP]And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”


Jesus Washes the Disciples’ Feet

John 13

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then He *poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. [SUP]6 [/SUP]So He *came to Simon Peter. He *said to Him, “Lord, do You wash my feet?” [SUP]7 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, “What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Peter *said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]Simon Peter *said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus *said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

[SUP]
12 [/SUP]So when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments and reclined at the table again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? [SUP]13 [/SUP]You call Me Teacher and Lord; and [SUP][b][/SUP]you are right, for so I am. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’ [SUP]19 [/SUP]From now on I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am He. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.”

 

[thecreationtutor]

hmm - in acts there are like 8 deacons/elders for around 8000 people

 

[GreenNnice]

hmm - in acts there are like 8 deacons/elders for around 8000 people

Extrapolate .

 

[PoxEclipse]

Serve God Willingly

1 Peter 5

5 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, [SUP]2 [/SUP]shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; [SUP]3 [/SUP]nor yet as lording it over [SUP][a][/SUP]those allotted to your charge, but [SUP][b][/SUP]proving to be examples to the flock. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading [SUP][c][/SUP]crown of glory. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

 

[GreenNnice]

Serve God Willingly

1 Peter 5

5 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, [SUP]2 [/SUP]shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; [SUP]3 [/SUP]nor yet as lording it over [SUP][a][/SUP]those allotted to your charge, but [SUP][b][/SUP]proving to be examples to the flock. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading [SUP][c][/SUP]crown of glory. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

Is there a distinction made from these verses of men being elders over women ?
Younger men are to be subject to their elders. This would not mean that elders are all men.

Now, take that verse in contrast to this verse from 1 Timothy 3 that Lpresidente so graciusly was led to bring out.

In the same way, deacons[SUP]b[/SUP] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11In the same way, the women[SUP]c[/SUP] are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

12A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus

 

[Glen]

It's confusing only if you ignore Scripture. "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.33 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law." - I Corinthians 14.

 

[GreenNnice]

It's confusing only if you ignore Scripture. "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.33 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law." - I Corinthians 14.

Are you ignoring it regarding women being able to be an elder, glencove

Why else would a woman be mentioned in 1 Timothy 3 IF she was not ALSO considered for being an elder in a church ?