Charles Spurgeon - interesting comment on the "heavens and earth"

[Locutus]

I can't say I'm familiar with ol' "Sturgeons" writings - but I came across this being quoted in a book I'm reading:

“Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, or any of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of Tabernacles, or dedication?

No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under new heavens and earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it”


Charles Spurgeon, Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, quoted by John Bray, The New Heaven and the New Earth, (Lakeland, Fl. John Bray Ministry)

 

[Magenta]

Thank God I did not live under such strict religious strictures.

 

[Locutus]

Thank God I did not live under such strict religious strictures.

I'm sure but I think Charlie probably had this is mind:

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

 

[Joidevivre]

Thank God I did not live under such strict religious strictures.

Yes- where would I find a red heifer here in the city?

 

[Locutus]

Yes- where would I find a red heifer here in the city?

Wendy's???

 

[Depleted]

I can't say I'm familiar with ol' "Sturgeons" writings - but I came across this being quoted in a book I'm reading:

“Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, or any of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of Tabernacles, or dedication?

No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under new heavens and earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it”


Charles Spurgeon, Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, quoted by John Bray, The New Heaven and the New Earth, (Lakeland, Fl. John Bray Ministry)

I wish I could read the original in context. Spurgeon did see the before and the after of the cross as dispensations, but not as the modern word is used. Alas, it is a quote from a 38 volume set of stuff Spurgeon wrote. (I wonder how long it would take me to read just that. lol)

 

[Depleted]

Yes- where would I find a red heifer here in the city?

The Italian Market? Right next to turtle soup, I bet.

 

[Spokenpassage]

You should find the source of the comment for me so that I could read the context, I couldn't find I myself except from that book.

 

[Locutus]

I wish I could read the original in context. Spurgeon did see the before and the after of the cross as dispensations, but not as the modern word is used. Alas, it is a quote from a 38 volume set of stuff Spurgeon wrote. (I wonder how long it would take me to read just that. lol)

The quote is from here - halfway down the page:

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/spurgeon/sermons37.xxx.html

 

[Spokenpassage]

Ah! Relief! Thank you. Here is the opening:

"This passage (he quotes), like the rest of Isaiah's closing chapters, will have complete fulfillment in the latter days when Christ shall come, when the whole company of His elect ones shall have been gathered out from the world, when the whole creation shall have been renewed, when new heavens and a new earth shall be the product of the Savior's power, when, forever and forever, perfected saints of God shall behold His face and joy and rejoice in Him."

And here is the beginning of that paragraph:

"As an instance of the expulsive power of a new delight, we all know how the memory of the old dispensation is gone from us. Brothers and Sisters, did any of you ever weep because you did not sit at the Passover? Did you ever regret the Paschal lamb? Oh, never, because you have fed on Christ! Was there ever a man that knows his Lord that ever did lament that he had not the sign of the old Abrahamic Covenant in his flesh? No, he gladly dispenses with the rites of the Old Covenant, since he has the fullness of their meaning in his Lord. The Believer is circumcised in Christ, buried in Christ, risen in Christ and in Christ exalted to the heavenly places! Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt offering, or the red heifer, or any of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacles, or the dedication? No, because, though those were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of Divine teaching is concerned. The Substance is come and the shadow has gone—and we do not remember it."

Thank you very much! I was like, what the heck. But now it makes sense.

 

[JesusRules1]

Not to not give credit to those who teach the Bible,and to not cut anybody down,but if a common pew sitter tells something of the Bible not too many people take heed to what they said,but if it is someone like Charles Spurgeon,or Martin Luther,or John Calvin,points out,or the commentaries written by people,a lot more response will come from people,as they look up to those people as spiritual giants that know what they are talking about,but who are you but a common pew sitter,the lowliest in the Church,and sometimes they spiritual giants do not know what they are taking about,which I do not listen to anybody,lest I want to be in error on some things,the fault being that is heeded them.

When the Bible says that we need not that any person teach us,but the Spirit will teach us,and will guide us in to all truth,and show us things to come,and will bring back to our remembrance all things that we have learned.

There will be a new earth,and heaven,and the old earth,and heaven,will pass away,and will not be remembered,or come to mind,for they have been tainted with sin,and the New Jerusalem is a place where sin has never been,and sin will never be,which is an actual place,for the apostles of the Lamb,and the 12 disciples names,are written in that city.

 

[Depleted]

You should find the source of the comment for me so that I could read the context, I couldn't find I myself except from that book.

http://www.lifeway.com/Product/spurgeons-sermons-from-the-metropolitan-tabernacle-pulpit-p005522867

 

[Depleted]

Not to not give credit to those who teach the Bible,and to not cut anybody down,but if a common pew sitter tells something of the Bible not too many people take heed to what they said,but if it is someone like Charles Spurgeon,or Martin Luther,or John Calvin,points out,or the commentaries written by people,a lot more response will come from people,as they look up to those people as spiritual giants that know what they are talking about,but who are you but a common pew sitter,the lowliest in the Church,and sometimes they spiritual giants do not know what they are taking about,which I do not listen to anybody,lest I want to be in error on some things,the fault being that is heeded them.

When the Bible says that we need not that any person teach us,but the Spirit will teach us,and will guide us in to all truth,and show us things to come,and will bring back to our remembrance all things that we have learned.

There will be a new earth,and heaven,and the old earth,and heaven,will pass away,and will not be remembered,or come to mind,for they have been tainted with sin,and the New Jerusalem is a place where sin has never been,and sin will never be,which is an actual place,for the apostles of the Lamb,and the 12 disciples names,are written in that city.

I grant you this much, "I do not listen to anybody." Truly, I get that about you.

I do listen as the lowly pew dweller. And then I check it out, because they were scholars, and I'm a lowly pew dweller. And then I see what other scholars say, because they were scholars, and I'm a lowly pew dweller. And then I read the context. And I ask God. And then I decide if they got it right.

But then again, the only way to do that is to listen, and, as you said, you "do not listen to anybody."

 

[tanakh]

I grant you this much, "I do not listen to anybody." Truly, I get that about you.

I do listen as the lowly pew dweller. And then I check it out, because they were scholars, and I'm a lowly pew dweller. And then I see what other scholars say, because they were scholars, and I'm a lowly pew dweller. And then I read the context. And I ask God. And then I decide if they got it right.

But then again, the only way to do that is to listen, and, as you said, you "do not listen to anybody."

People like Charles Spurgeon were led by the Holy Spirit and are still being used to further the kingdom as seen by this thread.

 

[sparkman]

I can't say I'm familiar with ol' "Sturgeons" writings - but I came across this being quoted in a book I'm reading:

“Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, or any of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of Tabernacles, or dedication?

No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under new heavens and earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it”


Charles Spurgeon, Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, quoted by John Bray, The New Heaven and the New Earth, (Lakeland, Fl. John Bray Ministry)

There are some who believe that the phrase "heaven and earth" in Matt 5:17-20 refers to the tabernacle or temple itself. I think it's a possibility.

Josephus referred to the tabernacle/temple as "heaven and earth" in some of his writings, as well as, I believe, Philo.

As one walked into the tabernacle, the outer courtyard with the altar for offerings and the sea were symbolic of the earth. The next partition was symbolic of the second heaven, with the candlestick holder symbolizing the sun, moon, and five known planets (at that time). The third partition, the Holy of Holies, symbolized the heaven of God's throne.

So, if Matthew 5:17-20 was referring to "heaven and earth" in this manner, Jesus was referring to the destruction of the temple.

This view is a bit problematic as the Mosaic Covenant ended at Christ's death, when the temple veil was ripped, so I am not claiming this dogmatically, but there are some clues that indicate it could be correct.

For more information on shadows and types you might check out the book The Shadow of Christ in the Law of Moses by Vern Poythress. It doesn't cover this precise topic but he does refer to the tabernacle as being a depiction of the earth - second heaven - third heaven representation. I believe that part is reasonable..that it is a horizontal depiction of this first heaven - second heaven - third heaven concept.

There's also a view that it relates to the temporal progression of events of the children of Israel from liberation to going into the Promised Land.

Here's a link regarding this that might be interesting. I'm not claiming it's totally accurate:

Margaret Barker

 

[Locutus]

This view is a bit problematic as the Mosaic Covenant ended at Christ's death, when the temple veil was ripped, so I am not claiming this dogmatically, but there are some clues that indicate it could be correct.

According to Hebrews the Mosaic was still in effect after Christ's death, although it was on the verge of "vanishing":

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing.

The two covenants ran "side by side" until the sack of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple - which would correspond to the old "heaven and earth".

 

[Bladerunner]

I grant you this much, "I do not listen to anybody." Truly, I get that about you.

I do listen as the lowly pew dweller. And then I check it out, because they were scholars, and I'm a lowly pew dweller. And then I see what other scholars say, because they were scholars, and I'm a lowly pew dweller. And then I read the context. And I ask God. And then I decide if they got it right.

But then again, the only way to do that is to listen, and, as you said, you "do not listen to anybody."

good post......"
" listen with all interest and then search the scriptures to see if it is so..........."

have a great day
Blade

 

[Spokenpassage]

http://www.lifeway.com/Product/spurgeons-sermons-from-the-metropolitan-tabernacle-pulpit-p005522867

I can get the collection on my phone, or read them online, although the physical copies are better for me. I really want the works of John Owen, I have almost sold my arm to buy one (just kidding).