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Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Matthew 2
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.[d] And he called His name Jesus.
Luke 2 also talks of Jesus birth.
someone else can probably explain better how John's birth can be used to find out the month of Jesus birth.
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Matthew 2
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.[d] And he called His name Jesus.
Luke 2 also talks of Jesus birth.
someone else can probably explain better how John's birth can be used to find out the month of Jesus birth.
K
There's some pretty good astronomy computer programs that put it to 3-4 BC. It seems that it takes several specific stars and planets to bring Wisemen from anywhere in the East. Analysis of old astrology texts told us which stars they could be. That particular arrangement of planets and stars only happens once in many years, and Augustus (Luke 2:1) and Herod (Matt. 2:1) can be pretty well traced from Roman records that were later compared to our BC/AD calendar. Abia's turn in the Temple (Luke 1:5) can be researched from Jewish sources and the OT, so we know Zechariah was there mid-June or so. Counting months (Luke 1:36) sets Jesus' birthday to Sept./Oct. the next year. The count of months is confirmed by the fact that Jesus did certain things at certain key times in the Israeli Feast Day system cycle, and these events are prophetic in some sense. Figuring it took the Wisemen a little while to travel, and that Herod killed every baby two years less and younger., that sets it to Sept. or Oct. 4BC.
If you want to delve into it deeper, there was a very detailed research thread on it a couple weeks ago that you can search for.
Christmas was an early accomodation to pagan feast days to emphasize that Jesus was the light of the world, so they celebrated the day just after the darkest day of the year.
The holidays of the Bible are the Pilgrimage Feasts of Israel. (ex. 23:14, Deut. 16:16). Understandably Christians changed the system, since we are part of a new covenant.
If you want to delve into it deeper, there was a very detailed research thread on it a couple weeks ago that you can search for.
Christmas was an early accomodation to pagan feast days to emphasize that Jesus was the light of the world, so they celebrated the day just after the darkest day of the year.
The holidays of the Bible are the Pilgrimage Feasts of Israel. (ex. 23:14, Deut. 16:16). Understandably Christians changed the system, since we are part of a new covenant.
I thought Christ, who brought in the new covenant, did not change anything. Christ explained it well when He said “You have been told” but “I tell you.” In Matthew chapter 6. Each time Christ told of something we had been told under the old covenant, He explained that now it was necessary to do these things from the heart. Christ said that was fulfilling, not changing.
Matt 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
I find it hard to understand how most everyone has found it fine to change so much of scripture.
Matt 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
I find it hard to understand how most everyone has found it fine to change so much of scripture.
I
Some sources report that Theophilus of Antioch (circa 171-183) was the first to identify December 25 as the birth date of Christ. Others say that Hippolytus (circa 170-236) was the first to claim that Jesus was born on December 25. A strong theory suggests that this date was eventually chosen by the church because it aligned closely with a major pagan festival, dies natalis solis invicti (birth of the invincible sun god), thus allowing the church to claim a new celebration for Christianity.
Ultimately, December 25 was chosen, perhaps as early as A.D. 273. By 336 A.D., the Roman church calender definitively records a nativity celebration by Western Christians on this date. Eastern churches maintained the January 6 commemoration together with Epiphany until sometime in the fifth or sixth centuries when the 25th day of December became the widely accepted holiday. Only the Armenian church held to the original celebration of Christ's birth with Epiphany on January 6.
God didn't tell us to celebrate Christmas, so why are Christians doing this?
Well, why do we celebrate a child's birthday? Why do we celebrate a loved one's birthday? Is it not to remember and cherish the significance of the event? What other event throughout all time is more significant than the birth of our Savior Jesus Christ? It marks the arrival of Immauel, God With Us, the Word Become Flesh, the Savior of the World - His is the most significant birth ever. It is the central event in all of history. Time chronicles backward and forward from this moment. I find myself wanting to ask, how can we fail to remember this day with great joy and reverence? How can we not celebrate Christmas?
Ultimately, December 25 was chosen, perhaps as early as A.D. 273. By 336 A.D., the Roman church calender definitively records a nativity celebration by Western Christians on this date. Eastern churches maintained the January 6 commemoration together with Epiphany until sometime in the fifth or sixth centuries when the 25th day of December became the widely accepted holiday. Only the Armenian church held to the original celebration of Christ's birth with Epiphany on January 6.
God didn't tell us to celebrate Christmas, so why are Christians doing this?
Well, why do we celebrate a child's birthday? Why do we celebrate a loved one's birthday? Is it not to remember and cherish the significance of the event? What other event throughout all time is more significant than the birth of our Savior Jesus Christ? It marks the arrival of Immauel, God With Us, the Word Become Flesh, the Savior of the World - His is the most significant birth ever. It is the central event in all of history. Time chronicles backward and forward from this moment. I find myself wanting to ask, how can we fail to remember this day with great joy and reverence? How can we not celebrate Christmas?
A
The Bible is not clear as to when he was born and I do not see where The Lord has told us to celebrate His birth. It is a nice tradition but He did not ask for us to pick day. From what I have heard, sometime back and will try to find the source, December 25 was a pagan holiday. Many of the decorations have pagan orgins. We just never asked and passed down the traditions, right_
A
The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous ... We must be careful we don't mix our carnal emotions of traditional family Christmas time with the need to die daily to all that is not of the Lord. We are in the world but not of it, right_ It is very difficult because we do not want to give it up and what will people say , but....
K
I said understandable, not advisable. It's understandable once you realize how the hatred of the "Jews" as being the murderers of Christ gained ground, over the view that Jews were Jesus' relatives. Once Israel fell to the Romans, they weren't around to advance the other postition very much. So the Greek end of Christianity gained ground, and they were the converted pagans. Since the growth of Messianic Judaism in the last 30 years or so, we see a gradual and proper shift back to the Jewish Feasts.
Perhaps you didn't see this from another thread:
True, (regarding what Christmas has become) but that doesn't mean we have make it what the world perverted it to. We can make it an opportunity to spread the gospel and teach the Word. I hate what Christmas has come, But I don't hate the meaning behind it. And sense my whole family celebrates it, I'm not going point my finger at them and make myself to look like a religious pharisee, I'm going to make the best of it. For example:
I despise Santa Clause, but I can use Santa to teach spiritual truths. The world sees Santa as a moral good man, picture Santa in is white long john underwear, this is a picture or a type of Christ's purity. Now put a red robe on Santa, this is a picture of Christ become sin for us even tho Christ had no sin. The red robe represents our sin. Santa lives in the north. Job_37:22 Golden splendor comes out of the north; God is awesome in His majesty. Isa_14:13 For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. Santa gives good free gifts and Christ gives us the ultimate gift of salvation. Santa come from the story of Saint Nicholas, read about here click --->Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.. Part of his legend has to do with giving. And this what gift giving means to me, I give you, my friends and family, as a symbol of what Christ gave to me.
So if Santa comes up during the time of Christmas for your family, you now have a story to tell them what Santa means to you and put the focus back on Christ and what he did for mankind. Make Christmas a springboard to share the gospel.
True, (regarding what Christmas has become) but that doesn't mean we have make it what the world perverted it to. We can make it an opportunity to spread the gospel and teach the Word. I hate what Christmas has come, But I don't hate the meaning behind it. And sense my whole family celebrates it, I'm not going point my finger at them and make myself to look like a religious pharisee, I'm going to make the best of it. For example:
I despise Santa Clause, but I can use Santa to teach spiritual truths. The world sees Santa as a moral good man, picture Santa in is white long john underwear, this is a picture or a type of Christ's purity. Now put a red robe on Santa, this is a picture of Christ become sin for us even tho Christ had no sin. The red robe represents our sin. Santa lives in the north. Job_37:22 Golden splendor comes out of the north; God is awesome in His majesty. Isa_14:13 For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. Santa gives good free gifts and Christ gives us the ultimate gift of salvation. Santa come from the story of Saint Nicholas, read about here click --->Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.. Part of his legend has to do with giving. And this what gift giving means to me, I give you, my friends and family, as a symbol of what Christ gave to me.
So if Santa comes up during the time of Christmas for your family, you now have a story to tell them what Santa means to you and put the focus back on Christ and what he did for mankind. Make Christmas a springboard to share the gospel.
Birth of Yeshua (Jesus) during Succoth click on link.
Birth of Yeshua (Jesus) during Succoth
Birth of Yeshua (Jesus) during Succoth
K
More likely just before Sukkoth: If at Sukkoth, everyone would have been in Jerusalem, and there would have been room at the inn. If I had been Joseph, I would have wanted to register for that census on the way there. It's much easier with a pregnant woman than with a newborn baby, and he would be obliged to stay in Jerusalem for the presentation at the temple anyway. Birth services were better in Jerusalem too. And if you register before the birth, I bet that was one less descendent of David that you had to pay tax on.
Isn't it remarkable that Mary still felt obligated to go to Sukkoth?
Isn't it remarkable that Mary still felt obligated to go to Sukkoth?
D
I heard an interesting take on that piece of the birth story (Luke 2:7) just the other day. Is it possible that there was no room at the inn, not because it was crowded, but because Joseph and Mary were being "shunned" by their peorple for having a child out of wedlock? After all, Joseph must have had relatives in Bethlehem.
Just something to think about.
God bless you.
Just something to think about.
God bless you.
K
I heard an interesting take on that piece of the birth story (Luke 2:7) just the other day. Is it possible that there was no room at the inn, not because it was crowded, but because Joseph and Mary were being "shunned" by their peorple for having a child out of wedlock? After all, Joseph must have had relatives in Bethlehem.
Just something to think about.
God bless you.
Just something to think about.
God bless you.