Church mistake

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sassylady

Guest
#21
It would have to be up to the pastor of the church to talk with this girl. I personally don't feel a person who is not living the Christian life has any business on the platform, they are in a sense a leader even if it's only in music. They certainly belong in church and should feel welcomed and loved. But it is a touchy subject, especially if she is acting properly at church.
 
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Miri

Guest
#22
It would have to be up to the pastor of the church to talk with this girl. I personally don't feel a person who is not living the Christian life has any business on the platform, they are in a sense a leader even if it's only in music. They certainly belong in church and should feel welcomed and loved. But it is a touchy subject, especially if she is acting properly at church.

Actually it would be up to the parent/s, she sounds pretty young, probably a child
according to the OP.

The OP sounds young herself.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,500
26,466
113
#23
The girl who is "misbehaving" was ten years old at the beginning of this year if it is the same one OP was complaining about in January. A ten or eleven year old needs a good mentor, and so does the OP. The root of bitterness that seems to have sprung up in the OP around this girl and her family is truly unfortunate. Focusing so much on what is wrong with others will only cause more grief. It reminds me of the parable of the two wolves (not Scriptural).


A grandfather is talking with his grandson and he says there are
two wolves inside of us which are always at war with each other.

One of them is a good wolf which represents things like kindness, bravery and love.

The other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed, hatred and fear.


The grandson stops and thinks about it for a second then he looks
up at his grandfather and says, “Grandfather, which one wins?”


The grandfather quietly replies, "The one you feed."
http://www.oneyoufeed.net/tale-of-two-wolves/
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,749
13,155
113
#24
The Bible does teach that elders should be appointed and that they should be people whose lives are better reflections of the holiness of God than the common man or woman. That's in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, more or less.

Paul wrote these letters to younger men that he had left in charge of building up congregations of believers that he had given the gospel to, and discipled, and then moved on. But in these letters, there isn't anything about people who sing in the choir -- so i guess what we'd have to ask, is "does a choir member need to be as holy as an elder, and held to these higher standards of living?"

Which is asking whether a choir member is supposed to be an example to others in the church for righteous living?
Well, functionally, a choir member is an example of singing, not living. We all have Christ as our example, and Christ as the One who we are being conformed to, and Christ the One living through us. WE ought to all be living in such a way that the word "Christian" means something -- that doesn't need to be qualified by 'not only a Christian, but a Choir-Singing-Christian!!'
. . . But i don't know whether a choir member needs to have as a prerequisite that their tongues be totally under control. That is, not any more than we all ought to be.

At the same time, i understand the concern. What others have been saying about everyone having sin is true -- and also that we all ought to keep hold of our tongues. i guess what i'm saying is that i really do understand what your concern is, and how that it is especially unbecoming for someone who uses their tongue to lead praise in song to fall because of it when she's outside of the choir loft -- but the reason she should keep hold of her tongue is the reason we all should, which doesn't have so much to do with being a choir member, because 'choir member' isn't even a 'thing' in scripture ((shouldn't we all sing? aren't we all​ 'choir members' then?)) -- it's because we all represent Christ, and we all owe it to the name of God to represent Him in a way that is fitting to who He calls us.

Does that make sense, i hope??

At the end of all that ((i've been thinking about this at work)) -- i think that you've done what you should, if you've approached her about it, and you should continue to gently remind her that she should speak as though she is Christ's ambassador and Jesus is living through her all the time. Not just because she's a choir member but because she's a Christian. i think you shouldn't get too worked up about it, but also, if the reason you are worked up is for the sake of God, not think that you are being wrong for being upset -- because when one of us in the body of Christ is shamed, we are all shamed together, being one in Christ. Just remember to also be as Christ when you think of her and talk to her, with respect and patience and mercy, acting in love.


((wow, i wrote a lot more than i thought i was going to???))
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,749
13,155
113
#25
The girl who is "misbehaving" was ten years old at the beginning of this year if it is the same one OP was complaining about in January.

for reals???

:eek:
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
338
83
#27
The girl who is "misbehaving" was ten years old at the beginning of this year if it is the same one OP was complaining about in January..

If that's the case, I'd definitely cut her a little slack. Singing in the choir might be a helpful source of inspiration for her, but throwing her out of the choir for undesirable texting might be something she's not emotionally mature enough to handle. Adults can be hypocrites, but kids usually just need a little guidance. I'd just politely encourage her to adjust her bad or abusive online language, making her aware that its not a proper reflection of whom she professes to follow. Sometimes you just need to give kids a conscience and hope for a positive change.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,951
113
#28
As someone who has been a professional musician, music teacher, worship leader, music director, and musician in church for 36 years since I got saved, I think this is not really about music.

This girl (woman) must love music to come to choir practices and sing in the choir. If it is a biblically based church (I assume it is!) then the music must be glorifying God, and maybe incorporate some Scripture in the music, or maybe doctrine if some older hymns are sung. (Maybe not?)

So this young person is hearing, and probably memorizing words of truth about God, Jesus and following him. Even if she is not following him! So if this young woman was kicked out of the choir, would she ever come back to church again? Would she ever hear the words of life contained in these songs? Or would her world become the world of only darkness, with not even a small light to brighten her path?

This is when it becomes an issue as to whether choir, and other worship ministries are for the mature to minister to the immature, (and mature, of course) or whether choir can be considered an outreach ministry. I've been in churches that have felt one or the other was the right definition. But the ones who felt that music had to be only for the strong, upright Christians never saw a single soul saved. I was in a Southern Baptist Church, where outreach was the motive, and the pastor went into the schools and found some young men who were willing to come and play various instruments, for free, who were far from saved.

Well, eventually most of those young men got saved. One even went into full time ministry. But the pastor was a bit discerning, too. One individual was dedicated to the music, but not to Christ. He was leading a very sinful life, and despite numerous talks with the pastor, and other worship team members, he did not turn his life over to Christ (ie repent!). So the pastor asked him to leave, and that was that.

But far beyond that, I am hearing about a troubled young woman, looking for attention on FB and social media with her off colour and rude remarks. This young person is NOT beyond the reach of God. She needs godly people to walk with her. Could your mother mentor her? Walk with her? Show her the way a Christian is before God? And more importantly, lead her to Christ? She probably is not a Christian, maybe doesn't even understand what it means to be a Christian. She is acting out, outside of church, in a way that suggests she is lonely, depressed, maybe has a bad home life, has been abused, and is very immature.

But throwing her out of the choir is the worst way to handle this. Can you not become her friend? Or are you afraid or what people in the world will say about you, hanging out with such a sinner? Because Jesus hung out with all kinds of sinners, from tax collectors, to prostitutes, to someone who betrayed him. He was mocked by the Pharisees and the scribes, who figured a holy man would separate himself from evil.

"And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners? And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” Mark 2:17

Is the OP going to sit with a sinner, because Jesus is calling this lost girl, or are you going to stand back with the Pharisees and judge her? Because God will take no joy over this girl being cast from the choir and probably church and definitely him. Instead, he will take joy over a repentant sinner, and we need to be the ones reaching out to them. And in your case, the girl who does not know God, and may make you look like a sinner too, just by being with her.

"Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance." Luke 15:7

I think you are right to be concerned about this young person singing in the choir whose life does not match what she is singing. But that concern has to be over the fact that she is not saved, does not know how to live for God, instead of worrying about "What will people say/think!" Please be a part of the solution and become a friend, and come to know the joy that the angels know, when you share the saving grace of Jesus Christ, this person repents and turns to God!
 
M

Miri

Guest
#30
Love559 I had a look at some of your previous posts, you sound rather unhappy
about life. Are you able to talk to your parents, or maybe a youth pastor if you
have one about how you feel, or maybe a school councillor.

It sounds as if you are unhappy and I feel it would be beneficial to ignore this
other person for a while and their problems and instead, to deal with getting to
the root of your difficulties. Sometimes in sadness or anger it's easy to fixate on
what we think is wrong with others as that can be easier than facing our own
difficulties.


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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,500
26,466
113
#31
....actually, there were 12 sinners among the 12:rolleyes:...... but I know the point you were making...:D
I thought that right away, too... perhaps they meant to say one unrepentant sinner? :D
 
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Depleted

Guest
#32
Okay so I need some opinions here. My mom and dad are pastors. I have a big problem. So there's a girl who helps sing at my church's choir group. I have a problem with her singing because I feel like anyone who has a job/responsibility at my church should be a strong believer and be good role model to others and be good with gods things. But this girl isn't like that. First of all out of church she does bad things. She posts on dirty stuff on social media. She says bad words like crazy. I get more mad just knowing she posts all these kinds of stuff ONLINE. Where anyone can see what she's doing. People are going to say "look at this girl doing this! And she sings at church! " Her own mom complains that she struggles so much with her at home. I don't think she's "fit" enough spiritually to be singing at church. A holy place. Am I being too "religious" or over reacting?
Your mom and dad are pastors. You are not. How about letting them do their jobs? When someone hires you to decide who gets what job within the church, then you can make those kinds of decisions.

You're worried about what people are saying because of how she acts? I know what I'm thinking as I read you gossiping about her.
 
E

eph610

Guest
#34
Okay so I need some opinions here. My mom and dad are pastors. I have a big problem. So there's a girl who helps sing at my church's choir group. I have a problem with her singing because I feel like anyone who has a job/responsibility at my church should be a strong believer and be good role model to others and be good with gods things. But this girl isn't like that. First of all out of church she does bad things. She posts on dirty stuff on social media. She says bad words like crazy. I get more mad just knowing she posts all these kinds of stuff ONLINE. Where anyone can see what she's doing. People are going to say "look at this girl doing this! And she sings at church! " Her own mom complains that she struggles so much with her at home. I don't think she's "fit" enough spiritually to be singing at church. A holy place. Am I being too "religious" or over reacting?
For anyone on the platform these 4 words are required.

Christian Character Matters Most...

A pastor friend of mine had a young man that could sing his lungs out, and play a mean guitar chord I mean he was good!!! The church people loved this guy. He joined the Worship team and a social media check was done, that he agreed to and signed. He also signed a honor pledge that as member the worship team he would not drink or smoke in public.

The social media check confirmed photos of him at bars and parties and his Instagram was full of pics of the wine, beer, whiskey, scotch and cigars he liked and moderately consumed.

my Pastor friend yanked him from his worship team. He got in a huff and told my freind that drinking in moderation and smoking cigars was not a SIN, my friend said you are probably right, but you are on the leadership team and many people look up to you as an example/testimony and your Christian Character Matters Most....

He left my friends church and began bad mouthing them and found another church that agreed with him that it was not SIN and ok for him to be involved in his moderate use of alcohol and smoking. During one service this worship leader ministered with a broken hearted young man who was addicted to alcohol...he prayed with him and got the young man involved in church, etc.

The young man thought the world of this worship leader, became friends with him and was sober for about 90 days or so when he saw the worship leaders Instagram posts....the young man thought, well if the worship leader at church can handle his booze, so can I....the young man was pronounced dead after having 4 drinks, and ran his car into a telephone pole....

Christian Character Matters Most...
 
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LitaVore

Guest
#35
Dear, we do have the responsibility as saved to do our best to be good witness towards others, especially the unsaved. That being said if you are worrying for this girl as well as her image then I'd go to your parents and show them what she's doing. That way your parents have a chance to talk to her parents and the girl as concerned adults do. Some people don't realize just how what they're doing makes them look let alone how it reflects on their witness of God in their life. If that doesn't help and she proceeds in what she's doing then....well,you tried to help out of concern. In the end it's her understanding and her maturity in Christ that is going to bring her where she needs.
 
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Amigo

Guest
#36
I would read 1corinthians 5:9-13, if she considers herself to be a sister in Christ it would be a problem, if not don't worry about it and pray for her.