Dangers Of The False Messianic Movement

[JaumeJ]

Living in Spain, I hear the name Joshua pronounced ho su ay. Accents have no bearning on the intent of the heart, soul, and mind, however once one is aware of someone's name, they usually do not go out of the way to mispronounce it.

Yeshua is also what the walls and blulwarks of New Jerusalem will be called, Isaiah 26. Yeshua is also translated completely as Salvation. In Hebrew it looks like this: ישוע I am not a language prude, nor do I believe it is important to learn any language beyond one's native tongue in order to know Yahweh. All who call on the name of His Only Begotten Son in spirit and truth know Him by the Holy Spirit. Languages have always interested me, so I study them. It is no different than someone liking hang-gliding and doing it. You do not need to hang-glide to know the Lord.

All who call on Him in spirit and truth know He walked His earth as a Jew. No one who recognizes this is trying to be a Jew or a Christian for they have come to the faith of Abraham, our forefather in the faith, and for some by blood.

Too many people here are looking for sin and they are also faulting others for a word, Isaiah 30. We know who loves the Lord and who seeks the faults of others by their fruit.

Again, I know Jesus was called Yeshua, so I choose to honor Him and the people who guarded the Word so well until His first coming only because for me it seems proper. Anyone who calls Him Jesus and loves Him for these reasons cannot be faulted, but they are missing out on so much joy and understanding of Torah when they block their own spiritual heritage, that being the faith coming down through and from Abraham. God is able to raise up children of Abraham from stones.

 

[zone]

I'd be offended because it wouldn't sound anything like that in Spanish, at least not the Spanish I remember. That Yo-swa sounds more like French? But you didn't hear it from me.

tsk....OKAY!

Jack spelled how it sounds for him.

if i write Huh-Yo-Swa, or HYo-sua can you say it FAST enough to make it sound like spanish? Yo-swa fast is what it sounds like to me....with the barely audible H whoosh sound in front. if i put the H in there, it's likely to overpronounced, don't you think?

the A at the end is an hard A. as in AYE....maybe i should have written Yo-swaye....or now we have HuYoSuwaye...like? for real?

how would you communicate the sound here, in text, directline2iam?

 

[Praus]

Jerusalem

Yĕruwshalaim

Isaiah

Yĕshaˁyah

Hebrew

ˁIbriy

Jew

Yĕhuwdiy

Abraham

ˀAbraham

Jesus

Jesus

 

[zone]

Im unsure of exactly what you are asking: "the story behind the Tetragrammaton" so please explain a bit more.

Also you may not care what the rabbis command, realistically NONE should, but you follow one of their laws by replacing YHWH with Lord and God..... this should not be so....

i don't know...this whole issue is a bit scary for me...not that i'm worried about The Lord's Name Jesus...but the other thing...the sacred name movement. i guess i don't know enough about the controversy, or linguisitics. i don't think i want to, really.

it's just a bit mystifying because:

YHWH are not Hebrew letters
the best you're doing is using what are now English letters to simulate the sound of His Name - is that right?

"LORD (Strong's #3068)

The word LORD (all uppercase letters) is, in the Hebrew text, the name of God - יהוה (Yahweh) and commonly called the Tetragramaton.

In our culture we use names as simple identifiers, a word with no meaning that identifies an individual.

But, in the Hebrews culture each name was a Hebrew word, or phrase, that has a meaning.

In the case of יהוה it is the verb הוה (hawah) meaning to "exist" and the prefixed pronoun י meaning "he." The name יהוה means "he exists."

.....

is the above correct?

soooo.....then isn't it Y'HAWAH or YHAWAH, if you are going to transliterate 4 Hebrew letter which have no English pronunciation without vowels?

the point is the meaning of His Name: "he exists", isn't it?

which is what He said to Moses:

Exodus 3
…13Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?" 14God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" 15God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD [yhawah - he exists?] , the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

wasn't He telling Moses the meaning of His Name?

אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה - transliteration : eh·yeh
אֲשֶׁ֣ר - transliteration : a·sher
אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה - transliteration : eh·yeh

right? or no?

John 8
57So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

εἰμί - transliteration: eimi - I exist, I am

so Hizikyah, does the greek NT have Jesus identifying Himself with I exist; I AM?

ιησους noun - nominative singular masculine
Iesous ee-ay-sooce': Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites -- Jesus.

....

as for Lord and your fear this is referring to satan, or baal....pul-eeze. why do this?
who cares if satan was called lord of the flies by the jews?
it means master.

what are you going to do about the GREEK?
claim God did not ordain the NT in greek?

John 13:13
"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am.

kurios: lord, master
Original Word: κύριος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kurios
Phonetic Spelling: (koo'-ree-os)
Short Definition: lord, Lord, master, sir
Definition: lord, master, sir; the Lord.

2962 kýrios – properly, a person exercising absolute ownership rights; lord (Lord).

[In the papyri, 2962 (kýrios) likewise denotes an owner (master) exercising full rights.]

 

[letti]

The most significant, and important names aside from all others(JESUS)He is the way,the only way!There is no substitute.He said none come unto, the father except through me.Then isn't it, he who we should focus on?

 

[JaumeJ]

Why are quotes attributed to me? Just curious. You do not need to feel obliged to reply.......thank you...

Yĕruwshalaim


Yĕshaˁyah


ˁIbriy


Yĕhuwdiy


ˀAbraham


Jesus

 

[letti]

i don't know...this whole issue is a bit scary for me...not that i'm worried about The Lord's Name Jesus...but the other thing...the sacred name movement. i guess i don't know enough about the controversy, or linguisitics. i don't think i want to, really.

it's just a bit mystifying because:

YHWH are not Hebrew letters
the best you're doing is using what are now English letters to simulate the sound of His Name - is that right?

"LORD (Strong's #3068)

The word LORD (all uppercase letters) is, in the Hebrew text, the name of God - יהוה (Yahweh) and commonly called the Tetragramaton.

In our culture we use names as simple identifiers, a word with no meaning that identifies an individual.

But, in the Hebrews culture each name was a Hebrew word, or phrase, that has a meaning.

In the case of יהוה it is the verb הוה (hawah) meaning to "exist" and the prefixed pronoun י meaning "he." The name יהוה means "he exists."

.....

is the above correct?

soooo.....then isn't it Y'HAWAH or YHAWAH, if you are going to transliterate 4 Hebrew letter which have no English pronunciation without vowels?

the point is the meaning of His Name: "he exists", isn't it?

which is what He said to Moses:

Exodus 3
…13Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?" 14God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" 15God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD [yhawah - he exists?] , the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

wasn't He telling Moses the meaning of His Name?

אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה - transliteration : eh·yeh
אֲשֶׁ֣ר - transliteration : a·sher
אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה - transliteration : eh·yeh

right? or no?

John 8
57So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

εἰμί - transliteration: eimi - I exist, I am

so Hizikyah, does the greek NT have Jesus identifying Himself with I exist; I AM?

ιησους noun - nominative singular masculine
Iesous ee-ay-sooce': Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites -- Jesus.

....

as for Lord and your fear this is referring to satan, or baal....pul-eeze. why do this?
who cares if satan was called lord of the flies by the jews?
it means master.

what are you going to do about the GREEK?
claim God did not ordain the NT in greek?

John 13:13
"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am.

kurios: lord, master
Original Word: κύριος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kurios
Phonetic Spelling: (koo'-ree-os)
Short Definition: lord, Lord, master, sir
Definition: lord, master, sir; the Lord.

2962 kýrios – properly, a person exercising absolute ownership rights; lord (Lord).

[In the papyri, 2962 (kýrios) likewise denotes an owner (master) exercising full rights.]

Zone,you do have a point the YHWH,has been found on ancient artifacts,that were not Hebrew in origin.

 

[letti]

Well,at any rate this is one thing debated.

 

[JaumeJ]

Like Jesus is understood by most, myself anyway, to be Yeshua, so YHWH is understood to be Yahweh. As for the pronunciation, accent would be the only distinction between people saying the name, Yahweh, Yahveh, Jehova (discounted by many, yet understood) etc.

The name, יהוה, could just as easily and accurately be translated completely as Self-Existing. This is our Father, for nothing precedes Him and nothing will follow His being, for He has no beginning and no end.

As for any of the names having the ability to frighten anyone, well, this depends on one's degree of superstition as opposed to one's faith. Of course the names do carry all power, but fear is only for those who do not know love. Love casts out all fear, and this at all levels.

 

[letti]

I have done some study into ancient artifacts found in Israel,I hear all sorts, of things always two different stories.

 

[letti]

Anyway that's off topic.Sorry.

 

[Praus]

Why are quotes attributed to me? Just curious. You do not need to feel obliged to reply.......thank you...

Good morning from California, yes, all the quotes point to post #81 in this thread, which is yours.

 

[JaumeJ]

What are the transliterations in response to? Thanks...(Long Beach?)

Good morning from California, yes, all the quotes point to post #81 in this thread, which is yours.

 

[weakness]

nonsense.
Paul wrote to many churches. they all did.
Jesus addressed several.

they had different cultures and whatnot.
what matters is if they were believing the very same scriptures and putting them into practice.

this antichurch thing is the twin sister of the Christianity is pagan thing.
soon you'll be in Judaism....mark it down.

JESUS is His Name.

do you know Him?

​ I'm of Paul,I'm of Apollos, I'm of Cephus, I;m of Christ. CARNAL in Your thoughts !!!......One body,one church ,one baptism, one God and father of all.

 

[zone]

​ I'm of Paul,I'm of Apollos, I'm of Cephus, I;m of Christ. CARNAL in Your thoughts !!!......One body,one church ,one baptism, one God and father of all.

OKAY!

where's the place of assembly for a BILLION (? hundreds of millions?) of Christians?

a big big place?
everyone in his own home?
groups of 5?
100?
1000?

 

[weakness]

OKAY!

where's the place of assembly for a BILLION (? hundreds of millions?) of Christians?

a big big place?
everyone in his own home?
groups of 5?
100?
1000?[/QUOTE ​Probably all the above. I have nothing against gathering together. Its the denomination thing that Paul is talking about, Claiming their separateness by who started them or some thing else. Not to be confused with separation because of false teaching,(they went out from us because they were not of us) anyway blessing to you in the Lord

 

[Yahshua]

Joshua:

"Mispronouncing my name is a fault of their accent not their choice...they're doing their best."

they are not mispronouncing your name
they are pronouncing it exactly as it is in Spanish.

Joshua is roughly an English pronunciation of Yeshua-Yehoshua; which is an English translation of an Hebrew Name
so, when someone calls you Joshua...the name your mother gave you, should they really be pronouncing your name Yeshua?
or were you specifically named Joshua - an English translation, and therefore an English name?

Well...I was specifically named Joshua - an English name from an American mother. So regardless of where my name comes from, the name I was given in this culture is the name I was given. My name is not Yeshua. It's Joshua.

That's the point I was making (with the Gerard example). For anyone to call me a translated version of my "given" name is not calling me by "my" name...because I'm American, not Hebrew. So likewise the same is true if I were Hebrew and not American; if my mother gave me the Hebew name Yeshua it would not be proper to call me Joshua.

Another example of my point: McDonalds is pronounced in a form of "Mac-Don-alds" in any language and in any region of the world because it's a proper name. And with its name preserved across languages and cultures, no one has any problem with recognizing the iconic fast food franchise.

many of the people of the region were Greek speaking - including many jews.

in their language, which is and was perfectly acceptable - God poured out the Gospel into all languages, the name Joshua is Ιησούς του ναυή - this sounds like - ee-shoosh -kinda...but it is still the name Joshua.

if a greek speaker waved at you and smiled and said ee-shoos or ee-soos! - would you be offended.

Ιησούς is ee-soos....this is Jesus.

ישוע this is Jesus...Ιησούς in greek

Ιησούς in German sounds like Yee-zoos

Ιησούς (Yeshua) - Иисус - in Russian sounds like Itee-sos

Very true; many people of the region were Greek speaking. But "his" people were Hebrew and Aramaic speaking, and his mission was to his people first. So his name was meant to be a specific sign to "them", in fulfillment of "their" received prophecies.

Matthew 1:21-22

She will bear a son, and you will name him "Yeshua", because "yoshia" his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call him by a name, which declares that, "God is with us".

The bold is called a Hebrew word pun: "Yeshua...Yoshia" for poetic writing style. The second Hebrew word being the "reason" for the first. This is a call back to Christ's name found throughout the scriptures. For example...

Isaiah 12:3

Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of [salvation = יְשׁוּעָה = y'shua].

All of the scenes of Christ offering "living water" also call back to passages like this one. There are many more examples of this in scripture.

...

my point is this.....The holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost, and all the devout JEWS who lived in other nations (not Judea); and who spoke other languages, heard the Gospel in the very dialects in which they were born.

this means God not only knew the languages and inflections by region, He ordained that the people hear it in their OWN language.
this is very important. in their own languages in which they were born.
we are not told anywhere that they then went away and taught people Hebrew before they could be saved or please God by pronouncing ישוע in Hebrew

God bless you in whatever languages you use and learn.
but we should never, ever suggest God Almighty does not save people who call upon the Name of Jesus in their own language, or that His Name is not KNOWN in every language. this was God`s Plan.

zone

lol of course you're right, the Hebrew language wasn't a prerequisite before the gospel...but the Hebrew culture IS (because Christ himself said "salvation is of the Jews"; John 4:22); as you say, they were STILL Jews...and thank you for the blessing.

well, they likely wouldnt call you Hey-soos (whats with the adding in Zeus btw....thats ridiculous) because your name is not JESUS. it is Joshua - an ENGLISH translation of an hebrew name (presumably), and therefore an English name.

if your name was JESUS in Mexico, they would pronounce it Hey-soos.

are Mexcians not allowed to call upon the name of Jesus without worrying about a debunked theory of Zeus

in Latin, which was the language of the Romans (who also got saved; and Paul likely spoke); Yeshua sounds like Gee-zooce, or as you wrote: Gee-zuz

what is the problem...Joshua in Latin sounds like: ee-aw-shwa

if a Latin speaker called you ee-aw-shwa would you be offended

My apologies, Zone. Unfortunately, I'm not speaking to you but writing to you (and others), so to understand my pronunciations I wrote what it sounds like...but I'm not a linguist. But, HEY?!.....you wouldn't be getting offended at how I chose to phonetically write a pronunciation, would you??? Especially after your specific replies??? I didn't write "Jesus", I wrote "hey-zeus".

in Latin my name sounds like: Kettee... in Russian it sounds like Kray-tya

guess what - it`s STILL MY NAME

If you equally respond to those names that's great...but until you actually told me what you just told me, I wouldn't have presumed that that was true for you, out of respect for you and the name your were given.

 

[4enlightment]

Interesting and tell me,...where did the name and spelling of JESUS come from my informed friend?

Jesus is the greek name for the hebrew name Joshua or Ieoshua.

James is the greek word for Jacob or Ia'aqov

 

[Apostol2013]

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of Yahweh cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall Yahweh go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and Yahweh my Elohim shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to Yahweh, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And Yahweh shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Yahweh, and his name one.
Zec 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith Yahweh will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Zec 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from Yahweh shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
Zec 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
Zec 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith Yahweh will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO YAHWEH; and the pots in Yahweh's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto Yahweh of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of Yahweh of hosts. what about this

 

[Bryancampbell]

A lot of people like to debate about the name of God. But I think people are emphasizing the name instead of the actual meaning. YHWH is God's name, but so was Eloi and Shaddai and Adonai, etc. I think one of the reasons God took the name YHWH because it best describes His existence. That's really all that matters isn't it? I think His name isn't just literal letters, I think it's actually who He is. That's His name, His marking in existence, His permanent engraving in creation. Not just having this one word. Although His name is very special, and the letters and everything. But sometimes I wonder if it really was more on what it defined than the word itself. Call Him Creator, Father, Merciful, One who governs the universe, etc. Because that's His marking, His name.