Eastern Concepts - Forgiveness

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 28, 2013
88
0
0
#1
Just before Jesus died, he uttered a phrase of words that I allow to echo right into my mind. As his position dictates, he was powerful to condemn, or to forgive. Willing as God wills, he did the righteous of the two. He uttered those words 'forgive them father, for they do not know what they are doing'.

The Old Aramaic (the language Jesus would have spoken, as opposed to Hebrew) in this instance was translated to mean 'forgive', in somewhat the western sense of the word. But it was so much more than that.

In the text, the word 'shbag' is used, and the literal translation is something like 'to loosen'. But .. and it's a huge but .. our concept of forgiveness is far different to the Eastern Ethos. To us it is something like this;

'You've done something bad to me. So you have made me feel bad. So I have a choice to forgive you.'

It is objective. It puts the person in a position of being less than I am, of needing forgiveness and that it is the trespasser who has made me feel the way that I feel. But in reality, this is a western concept. It is blaming someone else for the output of my own mind. My internal process and reaction to what they have done becomes somehow a product of someone else! Ridiculous when we think about it deeply! Our minds have this trigger, 'You have wronged me, so I react. And I am right, and they are wrong'

'If you didn't say that to me, I wouldn't have had to feel this way!'

Yet the Eastern Concept is far different.

It is more internal. Like this; 'This person has done something which makes me become angry and upset. That anger inside me needs to be 'forsaken''. As in 'let loose', or 'returned into its original state'.

It becomes a matter of 'they have done this, yet I see that I am not also perfect inside of myself'. It becomes less about right and wrong and more about a personal journey. A compassionate way of thought. The word 'shbag' has a concept more alike to 'bring to peace'.

What Jesus had was compassion for his aggressors. I can assume saying to himself 'Oh how lost these sheep are right now'. Instead of being against them, he did not see something that they needed punished for, but rather asked that the whole scenario be forsaken and blotted out!

When we realise our primal reactions and expectations are not a result of someone else's actions, and that they are actually a result of mental processes that we allow, then we can start to understand the consequences and hardships we can cause others simply by what we perceive to be a normal, okay way of thinking.

So the next time we strike a reaction to something that happens to us, let us look inside and realise we are also not perfect!
 
Jan 28, 2013
88
0
0
#2
It also begs then the question of why Jesus never outwardly condemned a person too. Perhaps the act of exacting eye for eye would be lawful, but then since when does any law make the abuse of power for it's own sake righteous?

.......................................................................................................................................................
 
T

Trax

Guest
#3
It also begs then the question of why Jesus never outwardly condemned a person too. Perhaps the act of exacting eye for eye would be lawful, but then since when does any law make the abuse of power for it's own sake righteous?

.......................................................................................................................................................

Joh 8:20-24 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man
laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come. (21) Then said Jesus again unto them, I go
my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. (22) Then
said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. (23) And he said
unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
(24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye
shall die in your sins.

Do you grasp the condemning words of Jesus in those verses? He told them if they don't
believe in Him, they would go to hell. He told them, while they were still alive, "you can't come."

And then there these verses:
Mat 11:20-23 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty
works were done, because they repented not: (21) Woe unto thee, Chorazin!
woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you,
had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth
and ashes. (22) But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon
at the day of judgment, than for you. (23) And thou, Capernaum, which art
exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works,
which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained
until this day.

Jesus laid the condemning words on whole towns. And Capernaum, He said they
were going to be brought down to hell. Now, I dunno what your concept of
condemning is, but to me, it appears Jesus got onto them in a very condemning way.
People think Jesus was just peace and harmony and preached, "let's just all get along."
He told the Pharisees, "You are of your father the devil." He condemned them to their
face, out in the open, for everyone to hear.
 
Jan 28, 2013
88
0
0
#4
Joh 8:20-24 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man
laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come. (21) Then said Jesus again unto them, I go
my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. (22) Then
said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. (23) And he said
unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
(24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye
shall die in your sins.

Do you grasp the condemning words of Jesus in those verses? He told them if they don't
believe in Him, they would go to hell. He told them, while they were still alive, "you can't come."

And then there these verses:
Mat 11:20-23 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty
works were done, because they repented not: (21) Woe unto thee, Chorazin!
woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you,
had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth
and ashes. (22) But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon
at the day of judgment, than for you. (23) And thou, Capernaum, which art
exalted unto heaven
, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works,
which have been done in thee
, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained
until this day.

Jesus laid the condemning words on whole towns. And Capernaum, He said they
were going to be brought down to hell. Now, I dunno what your concept of
condemning is, but to me, it appears Jesus got onto them in a very condemning way.
People think Jesus was just peace and harmony and preached, "let's just all get along."
He told the Pharisees, "You are of your father the devil." He condemned them to their
face, out in the open, for everyone to hear.
I do understand the point you try to make.

I ask myself when reading these, why Jesus says that he comes not to condemn, but to save.

He brings low the self-righteousness of the Pharisees. For what is exalted will be brought low.

So then was his motive condemnation? Or rather another form of beginning to open the eyes of those who he spoke to?

The day of judgement will fall on the Pharisees with great turmoil, yet I hope that they then see and have opened eyes. Whether they be in Earth or in Hades, Jesus is Lord of both the dead and living.

'Yet with men this is impossible. but with God, all things are possible'.

So I offer my hope for these men, that in God they can be brought low, either in life or in death, and shown their errors.
 
T

Trax

Guest
#5
I do understand the point you try to make.

I ask myself when reading these, why Jesus says that he comes not to condemn, but to save.
Read the rest of it. Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.