Effective Prayer

[Starcrash]

... there were several people who missed or ignored my point that there are some prayers God does not hear, as well as those He answers with a “yes” or “no” or “later when the timing is right” and that we are sometimes the reason He refuses to hear or says, “no.”

But this begs the question by presupposing that God answers all prayers. What would a non-answer look like? How would it different from a prayer "not heard" or a "no"?

Muslims also believe that Allah hears their prayers, and you believe (as I do) that Allah hears nothing because he doesn't exist. And yet Muslims believe that all prayers are answered and if you think it was a "no" then you are to blame for not noticing that it was a "yes"... or, of course, they offer the same answer of "Allah says either yes, no, or maybe" in order to cover all their bases. It's both unverifiable and unproveable, because anything that happens after a prayer can be interpreted as "an answer".

 

[Kerry]

But this begs the question by presupposing that God answers all prayers. What would a non-answer look like? How would it different from a prayer "not heard" or a "no"?

Muslims also believe that Allah hears their prayers, and you believe (as I do) that Allah hears nothing because he doesn't exist. And yet Muslims believe that all prayers are answered and if you think it was a "no" then you are to blame for not noticing that it was a "yes"... or, of course, they offer the same answer of "Allah says either yes, no, or maybe" in order to cover all their bases. It's both unverifiable and unproveable, because anything that happens after a prayer can be interpreted as "an answer".

God told Paul no and said that His grace was sufficient. Yes any prayer that is in line with His or purpose for your life will be answered and most of the time it is on His time and not ours. He is not a microwave, although He does at times answer quickly, usually its over time and something you go through.

For instance, if you ask for healing of heart disease, but you continue to ribs and Mcdonalds everyday. Don't hold your breath. But if ask and start putting effort behind it, He will do what you and the doctor cannot. Thats how God delivered me from alcohol and asthma and cigarettes and dipping snuff and temper and racism and many more. More importantly it was by the cross, the only place here God can meet man personally. I still am no where near perfect and won't be until the trumps sound or He takes me first.

 

[my_adonai_]

oh man, indeed sis that is very true. forgiveness first then go on to our needs..
thinking we have not sinned could show a self righteous attitude ..

 

[Starcrash]

God told Paul no and said that His grace was sufficient. Yes any prayer that is in line with His or purpose for your life will be answered and most of the time it is on His time and not ours. He is not a microwave, although He does at times answer quickly, usually its over time and something you go through.

Microwave, Santa Claus, gumball machine... there are many metaphors for it that try to make it sound more absurd than it is. What we expect is for God to at least be as responsive as an average person. When you ask your spouse "will you wash the dishes?", do you expect to only find out the answer to your question by finding out if the dishes are done later on? Of course not, because your spouse is fully capable of giving you a clear and concise answer that is unambiguous ("yes" or "no"). Yet God, who is allegedly at least as capable as an average person of understanding language and how we use it, doesn't choose to do so. The "Santa Claus" metaphor is at least close to how you expect God to act, in which you ask for something and then find out on Christmas if you got it. Microwaves and gumball machines, on the other hand, either give you what you paid for or they don't without wait or ambiguity... and God can't even live up to that standard, in much the same way that praying to thin air also can't live up to that standard.

A prayer and a dollar will buy you a coffee. There's a reason why you have to "ask and start putting effort behind it", because asking alone does nothing. You're trying to make your prayers come true just so you can give God the credit and feel smart about praying... but isn't it possible that this is exactly what those who pray to nonexistent gods are also doing?

 

[pickles]

I was going to do a blog on this, but it may better serve by being shared here.
A family member recently passed, and attnding the memorial, I saw through the many people there, just how much my brother served in Jesus, all in his life.
His life showed and witnessed to the streangth and power given when we serve, and the witness of God love for us in my prothers every action.
You see, he was disabled from birth, but one rarely saw his infermity, and one never saw it keep him from what he believed we are called to do in Jesus.
This was a very strong witness to me in Jesus, as I have prayed for a long time to be delivered from the pain, chronic fatigue and illness that has tried to steal from my life for a longtime now.
And even though I had not been delivered, in Jesus, I have done more than thought possible by my drs, and have recived a faith so deep and filling that my very bones praise God for it!

But seeing my brother's life set before me , I saw a man who had recieved thisstreangth , and I wondered why I had not recieived the streangth I have prayed for for a long time now.
I wanted so much to serve in Jesus, that even as I write this my eyes weep with this desire for Our Lord Jesus.
But quietly over the last several days, Jesus has opened my eyes.
You see, my brother did not wait for the streangth to serve, he served in faith, and by this faith did so because the streangth was already with him.
Scripture says that when we ask God Our Father for something, in faith,believe upon it, and it is given.
This speaks as well to scripture saying, we walk by faith, not by sight.
That we are called to a work of faith.
I realised that as long as I kept waiting for the streangth, removal of pain and infermities, I would continue to wait.
Because I was not doing a work of faith, I was not living God's message.
Now does this mean my body will be healed and all infermities and pain removed?
for now, I dont know, but I do know that in Jesus, God has already given us all we need to overcome.
And just as I had overcome many difficulties in my life that drs didnt think I would, this same faith applies to living Gods answer to our prayers.
I now see that the streangth I have prayerd for is recieived not in waiting, but in doing.
A work of faith, for it is by this that we know and see God's power and glory in our lives.
For in faith, by doing the work, the streangth is already given.

For it is in our weaknesses, that God's power is made perfect, glorified!
As Paul spoke to, for it is when I am weak, that I am trully made strong.
For Gods grace is trully enough, overflowing!

So now in prayer, I ask not for the streangth needed, but now I will praise God for all that is already set upon us all, by faith on Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh, through Him, His grace given.
Not by anything we have done, so no man may take pride in it, for all is Gods gift!

in Jesus, God bless
pickles

 

[calebcontrive13]

I strongly recommend reading Charles Stanley's, "The Ultimate Conversation - Talking with God Through Prayer". It has been extremely informative and helpful to me so far.

 

[just-us-2]

Elijah – a name that means “My God is Yah” according to the Holman Bible Dictionary – that already sounds “special” to me. And not that I doubt what the Bible says, but I’m having a hard time really comprehending the fact that he was just an ordinary person like me. James 5:17 “Eliyahu [Elijah] was only a human being like us;…” and then his first miracle recorded in the Bible makes up the rest of that verse, “…yet he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and no rain fell on the Land for three years and six months.”
The next thing this ‘ordinary’ guy does is goes to the wilderness as he hears God tell him to do. He is told to drink from the stream there and that ravens would bring him food - and they did! That is, until the stream dried up from the lack of rain which Elijah had caused to afflict that land. So, off he goes to Zarephath, again at God’s direction. God says He has ordered a widow there to provide for Elijah, but the poor woman is getting ready to cook up the last of her food for her and her son and then they can die, she says. It doesn’t seem like she had any knowledge of this command by God to feed the prophet but she did as Elijah said. 1 Kings 17:10-16 (CJB) “… On reaching the gate of the city, he saw a widow there gathering sticks. He called out to her, "Please bring a little water in a container for me to drink." 11 As she was going to get it, he called after her, "Please bring me a piece of bread in your hand." 12 She answered, "As ADONAI your God lives, I have nothing baked, only a handful of meal in a pot and a little oil in the jug. Here I am, gathering a couple sticks of wood, so that I can go and cook it for myself and my son. After we have eaten that, we will die." 13 Eliyahu said to her, "Don't be afraid. Go; and do what you said; but first, use a little of it to make me a small loaf of bread; and bring it out to me. After that, make food for yourself and your son. 14 For this is what ADONAI the God of Isra'el, says: 'The pot of meal will not get used up, nor will there fail to be oil in the jug, until the day ADONAI sends rain down on the land.'" 15 She went and acted according to what Eliyahu had said; and she, he and her household had food to eat for a long time. 16 The pot of meal did not get used up, nor did there fail to be oil in the jug, in fulfillment of the word of ADONAI spoken through Eliyahu.”

Then the lady’s son gets sick and dies, and she is upset with Elijah, who in turn cries out to God for an answer. 1 Kings 17:17-24 (CJB) 17 A while later, the son of the woman whose house it was fell ill; his illness grew increasingly serious until his breathing stopped. 18 She said to Eliyahu, "What do you have against me, you man of God? Did you come to me just to remind me how sinful I am by killing my son?" 19 "Give me your son," he said to her. Taking him from her lap, he carried him into the room upstairs where he was staying and laid him on his own bed. 20 Then he cried out to ADONAI: "ADONAI my God! Have you brought also this misery on the widow I'm staying with by killing her son?" 21 He stretched himself out on the child three times and cried out to ADONAI: "ADONAI my God, please! Let this child's soul come back into him!" 22 ADONAI heard Eliyahu's cry, the child's soul came back into him, and he revived. 23 Eliyahu took the child, brought him down from the upstairs room into the house and gave him to his mother; and Eliyahu said, "See? Your son is alive." 24 The woman replied to Eliyahu, "Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of ADONAI that you speak is the truth."

The next chapter starts with Elijah getting ready to pray for relief from the drought he caused to occur three years before, and a meeting with Obadiah – not the prophet Obadiah – in preparation for the well-known story of God burning up a water soaked altar. Then in chapter 19, Jezebel sends a message to Elijah, “May the gods do terrible things to me and worse ones besides if by this time tomorrow I haven't taken your life, just as you took theirs!" (verse 2)

It surprised me a little that a man with as much power with God as Elijah had, would actually turn tail and run away to hide, but he did. He felt very poorly about himself and prayed to God for his own death. He didn’t get death, rather, he got fed by an angel. After sleeping, the angel feeds him again and tells him that he better eat hearty because that meal would have to keep him going for forty days. At the end of the forty days Elijah finds a cave in Mt Horeb where God asks him, “What are you doing here?” This great prophet admits to God that he’s scared, by saying, “…I have been very zealous for ADONAI the God of armies, because the people of Isra'el have abandoned your covenant, broken down your altars and killed your prophets with the sword. Now I'm the only one left, and they're coming after me to kill me too." 1 Kings 19:10 (CJB)

Then one of my favorite scriptures about God’s might is given to us. 1 Kings 19:11-12 (CJB) 11 He said, "Go outside, and stand on the mountain before ADONAI"; and right then and there, ADONAI went past. A mighty blast of wind tore the mountains apart and broke the rocks in pieces before ADONAI, but ADONAI was not in the wind. After the wind came an earthquake, but ADONAI was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake, fire broke out; but ADONAI was not in the fire. And after the fire came a quiet, subdued voice.
It wasn’t in the wind or the earthquake or the fire…it was a still, small voice when God spoke to him.

There is a lot more we can read about Elijah, a man who was not flawless, but was instantly obedient in whatever God told him to do. Study this prophet's life and see what difficult things God asked of him. God sent him to the wilderness of Kerith/Cherith to be ministered to by ravens and to Zarephath to be cared for by a lowly widow, a person at the very bottom of the social ladder in those days. Then Almighty God tells Elijah to go show himself to the king who has been hunting all over the area to find him so he could kill him. He hasn't asked anything so frightful of me but He knows I'm still working on that “instant obedience” thing. Elijah feared God – but not a fear as in being afraid of God. Its like raising children – only when they are very young is fear of discipline a useful, beneficial tool. When they get a little older we, as parents, want them to be obedient out of respect for us and trust in our guidance, which builds a relationship rather than simple fear of punishment being the outcome. Fear of God is to be in awe of Him in addition to having that same kind of trust and respect we want from our children.

I guess it is pretty obvious that Elijah is one of my favorite Bible characters. And I know I get long-winded so before this gets any longer, I’ll just say that even reading only this much about Elijah has made one thing very clear to me - response is required from us! We have to hear God’s direction and act on it every step of the way…instantly.

 

[just-us-2]

There in 1 Kings 19 I was reading all this good stuff about Elijah when in verse 16, God tells Elijah to anoint Elisha to be his successor. One interesting thing I discovered as I was reading about Elisha, although not particularly dealing with prayer, was this: “At the time in which Elijah and Elisha exercised their functions religion and morals had gone down to the lowest possible point in Israel. The very schools of the prophets had themselves felt the corrupting influence of the times. Ahab was able to gather four hundred false prophets at a time, the remarkable circumstance being that they were not prophets of Baal, but false prophets of the Lord himself.” (Bible Characters, Moody, Dwight Lyman; Talmage, T. De Witt; Parker, Joseph; Gillette, C. B.)

Imagine that! Four hundred false prophets at a time and they were false prophets of the Lord, not Baal. This reminds me of the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century, and all of the false doctrine flourishing today. Elisha was very young when Elijah cast his mantle upon him out in the field where he was plowing alongside eleven servants/slaves, and he wasn’t too proud to work alongside the guys doing the nitty gritty dirty work. He asked Elijah if he could go kiss his parents after the older prophet, without a word, spread his sheepskin mantle over Elisha. There is nothing that shows up as frivolous or self-important, or even self-sufficient in this young man. Such characteristics would have destroyed his ability to be a prophet before he even got started. Elisha learns for several years from Elijah before the old man is taken away.

Elisha’s humility very plainly stands out and as I studied I found two “takes” on what is probably the most momentous of his deeds. One school of thought dwells on Elisha’s boldness toward God and the other, his humility regarding this same incident:

2 Kings 2:6 Eliyahu said to him, "Please wait here, because ADONAI has sent me to the Yarden." He replied, "As ADONAI lives, and as you live, I will not leave you." So the two of them went on.
7 Fifty of the guild prophets went and stood watching them from a distance, while they stood by the Yarden.
8 Then Eliyahu took his cloak, rolled it up and struck the water with it; and the water divided itself to the left and to the right; so that they crossed on dry ground.
9 After they had crossed, Eliyahu said to Elisha, "Tell me what I can do for you before I am taken away from you." Elisha said, "Please! Let a double share of your spirit be on me!"
10 He replied, "You have requested a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, you will get what you asked for; but if not, you won't."
11 Suddenly, as they were walking on and talking, there appeared a fiery chariot with horses of fire; and as it separated the two of them from each other, Eliyahu went up into heaven in a whirlwind.
12 Elisha saw it and cried out, "My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Isra'el!" Then he lost sight of him. Seizing his clothes, he tore them in half.
13 Then he picked up Eliyahu's cloak, which had fallen off him. Standing on the bank of the Yarden,
14 he took the cloak that had fallen off Eliyahu, struck the water and said, "Where is ADONAI, the God of Eliyahu?" But when he actually did strike the water, it divided itself to the left and to the right; then Elisha crossed over.
15 When the guild prophets of Yericho saw him in the distance, they said, "The spirit of Eliyahu does rest on Elisha." Advancing to meet him, they prostrated themselves on the ground before him

I hesitate to dwell too much on the “boldness” thought because I see it so …misused and overdone! When people pray in church, or any other ‘religious’ gathering for that matter, I hear no confession of sins – not even generic (not all sin needs to be confessed in front of a whole congregation of people) – and literally demanding God do something or other for them. The scripture that I have heard used to support this demanding attitude toward Almighty God is “Therefore, let us confidently approach the throne from which God gives grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace in our time of need.“ Hebrews 4:16 (CJB)
Time passes and we see that He didn’t do whatever it was, and the excuse is that God said, “no,” or “wait.” It is never an acknowledgment that the person or group who prayed may have not been pure in heart. This “boldness” is simply referring to the privilege we have of approaching God in prayer without the need to slaughter a goat and have a high priest offer it in our behalf, a necessity now fulfilled by Jesus Christ/Yeshua. “So, brothers, we have confidence to use the way into the Holiest Place opened by the blood of Yeshua.” Hebrews 10:19 (CJB)

Just one more thing I found as I was working on the “boldness” topic that strongly supports what we know is right and that is to STUDY the scriptures, as the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. I read a book about being bold with our prayers and the author used Isaiah 45:11 as a basis for claiming that God tells us to command Him to do for us. Apparently he used the KJV which says: “Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.” But, I looked in the Complete Jewish Bible, which is translated directly from the original Hebrew, which everyone agrees was the language the Old Testament was first written in, and it says: “Thus says ADONAI, the Holy One of Isra'el, his Maker: "You ask for signs concerning my children? You give orders concerning the work of my hands?” The changing of questions in the original to statements in the KJV totally changes the meaning of the passage. It is actually saying, ‘who are you to demand anything of me?’….not, ‘go ahead tell me to do anything you want to.’ So much for boldly going where no man should go.

This is getting very long so will take up the other part of this discussion in the next post.

Also see thread “The falling away” for more on this especially post #266.

 

[just-us-2]

There is MUCH more in the Bible about our need to be humble before God and other people – way too much to go into each passage of scripture. Humility is obviously a major problem for us because there are so many passages of scripture exhorting us to be humble and explaining the results of either being humble or not.

Toward God: 1 Chronicles 7:14 “then, if my people, who bear my name, will humble themselves, pray, seek my face and turn from their evil ways, I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin and heal their land.”
1 Peter 5:6 “Therefore, humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God,…”

Other people: 1 Peter 5:5 “… Further, all of you should clothe yourselves in humility toward one another, because God opposes the arrogant, but to the humble he gives grace.

We are also cautioned against false humility in Colossians 2:18, which would be logical since truth is the standard of real Christianity, and false humility would be…untruthful.

We, as Christians, are aware that whatever knowledge we have, or wisdom, or anything else comes from God. It is a gift to us, whom He loves so dearly. We realize this and we know all the right words to say giving God the glory for His gifts. The problem is our demeanor. It often tells a different story than our words.
And here we go again with “self-examination”…human nature being what it is, we see ourselves differently than others do and much differently than God sees us. We resist seeing the negative in ourselves so passionately that we refuse to admit what is really there. We will deny it. So honest evaluation of ourselves is usually not very objective, therefore not really honest if left up to our human nature. And to try to pull the wool over God’s eyes as far as our humility – well, that’s downright laughable.

Modern civilization is heavily influenced by the ancient Greek culture, which abhorred the quality of humility in distinct contrast to Biblical teaching in both Old and New Testaments. Thus, the flesh wars against the spirit.

Another quote from the book mentioned before concerning Elisha and his cry of "Where is the Lord God of Elijah?" says this: “It is when we stand back in humility and in almost despair, and cry out in our desolateness "Where is the Lord God of Elijah?" that we begin our work in the right spirit, and only then.
In this whole ministry of righteousness and redemption there is no place for self-sufficiency. Apostle Paul said: "Our sufficiency is of God." The great inquiry "Who is sufficient for these things?" keeps down human ambition and vanity, and prepares the heart for the utterance of prevailing prayer. The question which was thus propounded by Elisha is full of suggestion to ourselves. When we come to read the Bible we should not inquire so much where inspiration is, but where is wisdom which can be applied to our own circumstances and be made unto us as the very staff of life.” (Bible Characters, Moody, Dwight Lyman; Talmage, T. De Witt; Parker, Joseph; Gillette, C. B.)

After digging into the question of why so often the prayers of professing Christians seem to go unanswered and then looking at these two great prophets for lessons on effective prayer as James steered me to, I have come to a conclusion. The message that stands out much more plainly to me from Elijah immediate is obedience, and from Elisha I have learned to temper boldness with humility.

James 4:6 But the grace he gives is greater, which is why it says, "God opposes the arrogant, but to the humble he gives grace."
James 4:10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
Matthew 18:4 So the greatest in the Kingdom is who ever makes himself as humble as this child.
Isaiah 57:15 For thus says the High, Exalted One who lives forever, whose name is Holy: "I live in the high and holy place but also with the broken and humble, in order to revive the spirit of the humble and revive the hearts of the broken ones.