Following the Leader

[MissCris]

I'm making this thread to hopefully help the Leadership thread not get derailed, and also I'm very curious what people think-

What does it look like when a woman allows herself to be led in a relationship? How does she do that in a manner pleasing to the Lord, and to her spouse (or boyfriend/fiance)?

Does it all come down to submission, or is following different?

I'm hoping that this will not turn into an ugly debate about how women are supposed to submit and the bile that always gets spewed in THAT discussion....

What I'm looking for here is opinions/thoughts on how FOLLOWING the leader of the relationship looks/is done (I'm off to put my two cents in on the Leadership thread, I shall return...!)

 

[dyingeveryday]

MissCris, I know that either person in the relationship can go astray. If both people in the relationship are walking strong together with the Lord then it looks like God is leading because He is. I may lead my family into prayer and reading the word. I may be the one who speaks when discipline is needed but I am saying what is on both of our minds. When she speaks it is the same. When there is conflict I believe both should submit to and follow God. However, when there is division and one person falls away it is different. Still one leads and the other follows reluctantly. I have found that even in this situation the person who is lead by God to lead has something that can not be debated. In all situations everyone must submit to God because it is God who is really leading. Unless you are dealing with a non believer. I've never been in that situation though except for when I was a not walking with God.

 

[Fenner]

I've come to think of a relationship as team work. However I like when my husband makes decisions, we talk about things and I want his honest input. All relationships are different and I've seen woman and know woman who are more submissive then me. But that doesn't mean that they are meek. Culture plays a role too. My Italian side of the family the women did all of the cooking and house work. Times are different now too. In some families both couples work full time and both husband and wife share the workload at home. In my mind, do what works for your family.

 

[lil_christian]

I'm making this thread to hopefully help the Leadership thread not get derailed, and also I'm very curious what people think-

What does it look like when a woman allows herself to be led in a relationship? How does she do that in a manner pleasing to the Lord, and to her spouse (or boyfriend/fiance)?

Does it all come down to submission, or is following different?

I'm hoping that this will not turn into an ugly debate about how women are supposed to submit and the bile that always gets spewed in THAT discussion....

What I'm looking for here is opinions/thoughts on how FOLLOWING the leader of the relationship looks/is done (I'm off to put my two cents in on the Leadership thread, I shall return...!)

I think something important about submission is, even if you don't always agree with that person, you still go with it (unless it leads you or him into sin. Then that's just stupid.) I'll give an example.

Let's just go ahead and say the couple is married. The husband wants to buy a motorcycle, but the wife doesn't want him to. So they talk it out and come to the conclusion that if he wants to buy the motorcycle, then he can. They have the finances to and everything. She still might not totally agree with him buying it, but nonetheless she respects his decision.

I know my answer and example might seem a bit lame. But I based that example off of a true story. Wasn't a motorcycle, but yeah.

(And off-topic, I saw the thread and thought of this)

[video=youtube;ouFCE3VjNQs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouFCE3VjNQs[/video]

 

[Jullianna]

Good example, lil Christian.

When my husband was living he and I did not always agree, but he always asked for and respected my opinion. He did not lord anything over me or make me feel unimportant in the process. WHEN we disagreed re: big family decisions, we went with his decision, knowing that the accountability was his. And the very few times he was wrong there was no need to say so, as he felt worse about it than I did.

It's much like my relationship with Christ. I don't always understand why the Lord wants me to do/not do things, but I honor Him anyway knowing that He loves me and wants only the best for me. When you are married to a man that you trust with all that you are and know that he loves you and wants only the best for you, following is not hard. This is exactly why Christian ladies must carefully and prayerfully choose a husband. If you cannot trust him or are unsure of his ability to love/protect/care for you, keep walking. You have not yet found the right guy.

I learned VERY quickly that when a couple is trying to live as godly husband/wife, God has a way of giving a man wise counsel. If my man is praying about a thing and truly feels God leading him in one direction or another, you'd better know there is no way in the world I would want to put my foot in the way. I don't wanna end up in God's woodshed.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

I'll vote for following always = submission. I can't think of any example where someone can be following but not submitting at the same time. Can any of you guys think of one?

 

[Water1944]

In my opinion, first there is your faith to the Lord. Then there is a deep love and respect for each other. I can't answer to the husband being the head of the house, as I was was married to a nonbeliever. I feel in a strong healthy marriage, you both take turns being the strong one, or the one who needs to be lifted up. The biggest thing is you share and support each other's strengths and weaknesses. You truly want your partner to grow and be the best they can be, as a christian, as a spouse, parent, friend. I think mostly it depends on your family and what you are both comfortable with.

 

[Liamson]

I don't like the word submissive just because of its Metaphorical symbolism.

Wives...

be like this dog.

Because...

You are MY wife...

Instead a Leader should be able to communicate, support, inspire, lead by example, plan and take the needs of his wife into selfless consideration.

Do you Trust me?



Trust.

 

[Shouryu]

I don't like the word submissive just because of its Metaphorical symbolism.

Wives... be like this dog.

Because... You are MY wife...




Instead a Leader should be able to communicate, support, inspire, lead by example, plan and take the needs of his wife into selfless consideration.

Do you Trust me?

Trust.

BOOM! Once again, Liamson nails it. For a while, I'd been pondering this thread, because I knew how I felt about the topic, but wasn't sure how I could word it. Liamson worded it perfect. Awesome.

 

[MissCris]

These are good answers, guys

There have been a couple of posts mentioning what people are "comfortable" with in their own relationship...and I'm not saying that's necessarily a wrong opinion, but I just wonder if it's Biblical, or more worldly?

I kind of feel like when we start down that path of what we're "comfortable" with, we can use that as an excuse to not do some of the things God commands us to do. As a woman, and a married one at that, I am NOT always comfortable letting my husband be the leader, and it's NOT always comfortable to submit in the manner the Bible tells me to. And that's not my husband's fault, it's me wanting to be the boss sometimes.

I guess what I'm getting at with this comfort level thing is that it's not going to always be an easy, "comfortable" thing to do, following your husband. But I strongly, strongly feel that it should be done, anyway. I'm not talking about the strengths and weaknesses thing that was mentioned, or taking turns being the strong one in the relationship- I don't think that following, or submitting, has anything to do with either of those, really.

I think most of you have summed it up pretty well so far

 

[isaria]

Liamson, what a wonderful reply.
I love the pictures you attach to help describe and express your opinion and point.
One of my favorite ways of communicating and tutoring or understanding happens to be this and you choose such wonderful pictures.
Well done!
Hope i may learn more of adding pics here also . (saw a post regarding it)

Many do not know diference between dominant and bully /abuse or between being a leader and being an abusing dictator.
4instance some may forse someone into marriage and say "i man, you obey" and slap woman who say , no i will not marry you and your wife as a second wife slave.Then she may be isolated and abused etc.

Woman also abuse authority and what they think it is.
Have seen many power crazed woman disrespecting authority they wrongfully were given.
Often they might use sex to get power.
Have seen female politicians be bullies and slander and lie in society but then again also seen professional leaders.


Not every one knows difference.
and difference is huuuuuge and oh so important.


Agree with your post.


Sometimes when one lets the other part lead it can be good thing.
I once went to restaurant (does not happen often) the man asked if he could order for me.
First and only time a man ever ordered for me and it was lovely.
It was a dish i would neeeeever of ordered and i simply loved it and was delighted and excited.

partnership and teamwork and all things liamson mentioned are important.

I like to be the boss sometimes but 4instance...: if im boss in my own business but if i take another job where i am hired in or employed like a cafe then they are the boss and i do as they will at the cafe.

also respect.
mutual respect.


The clear difference is amazing and praise for pictures and words expressing such a difference of leadership.
Such a good husband.

 

[Loveneverfails]

I had a thought I was going to share in the leadership thread, but this could really go in either that one or this one so I might as well post here.

First, I'll speak of how I hope and pray I'll be able to follow my future husband. This is my perspective, which evolves from my understanding of scripture, observing godly couples in my life, likely some of my multicultural background, and plenty of prayer.

Liamson definitely hit the nail on the head with the keyword trust. Thanks for the great use of pictures, too!

The term "submit" doesn't offend me, only because I've been raised to equate "submission" with "trust". As a child I submitted to my parents because I trusted them. I submit to the Lord for many reasons, one of them being that I trust Him. My prayer is to marry a man who follows the Lord to the best of his ability at any given season in life. A man like that would earn my trust, and if I trusted him, I think I'd be willing to trust his decisions even if they didn't make sense to me or if I didn't agree with them. That's not to say I wouldn't voice my opinion, especially if he asked, but I wouldn't put up a fight so long as I knew he was earnestly following the Lord.

If the man submits to the Lord, I will gladly submit to him.

My second point is that I definitely think that there's a distinction between a married couple and an unmarried couple. The Bible commands that I submit to my husband, not my boyfriend. In my currently relationship, I'm on the lookout for signs that he's the type of man I would be willing to be led by within marriage, but that does not mean he leads me now. I look for things like habitually seeking God's will regarding big decisions, a healthy prayer life, humility, and a servant's heart. And likewise, he's also on the lookout for signs that I would be comfortable trusting and following a man within marriage, and he's able to make those observations based on how I trust and follow those who are currently in God-given positions of authority in my life.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

We used to play a game called follow the leader in elementary school. I hated it. I always wanted to do my own thing.

20 some years later and i'm still much the same. I've always been rebellious, it's a character flaw i know. My ONLY character flaw actually. (no seriously, i'm nearly perfect)

I would never ever ever date someone who expected me to follow along with what he said. I don't even follow along with what i say.

Story time people

I dated a guy once who was all for the YOU WILL LIIISTEN TOOO MEEE!! Then we stopped dating.

That was my story, and i know it was horrible, but the moral is.....i don't waaanaa do what you say!

 

[kayem77]

I was gonna ask if we were talking about a marriage relationship or a dating relationship, because those relationships don't have the same dynamic, but Loveneverfails pretty much said what I was gonna say thank you

 

[BananaPie]

Does it all come down to submission, or is following different?

There are times when the husband doesn't want to lead; he doesn't care to lead, or he simply doesn't know how to lead.

The Bible's recommendation is for the wife to continually be adorned "with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God"
(1 Peter 3).
Rather than "telling" (ordering) the husband what to do, or how to fix it, daily prayer for one's marriage and head-of-household comes in handy.

Yes, the husband (and the wife) will make mistakes, and all godly marriages should make healthy allowance for mistakes to be made; allowance for mistakes to be fixed and forgiven, and especially to learn from household/spousal mistakes in order to avoid repeating them.

What worth is submission if nobody is leading orderly? If the husband is not in submission to Christ, learning from Christ, and the wife is not in submission to the husband, learning from her husband, then who exactly is in charge? Where is the Lord in the marriage? Better yet, how is Jesus one's "Master" if we are not His bondservants?

Let's keep in mind that we (the saints) have been betrothed to one husband who is Christ. I would never, ever dare tell my Lord Jesus Christ what to do, let alone take charge to over-ride His holy authority over me.

In the same reasoning, when the wife, being the weaker vessel, uses prudence to consider the authority of her husband to such an extent as she would respect Christ, our King of Glory, then perspective is shifted from "I'm boss" to "not I, but Christ." After all, a man is king of his castle, right? ...or was that a man-cave?

Anyway, just thinking out loud...

 

[SeatBelt]

These are good answers, guys

There have been a couple of posts mentioning what people are "comfortable" with in their own relationship...and I'm not saying that's necessarily a wrong opinion, but I just wonder if it's Biblical, or more worldly?

I kind of feel like when we start down that path of what we're "comfortable" with, we can use that as an excuse to not do some of the things God commands us to do. As a woman, and a married one at that, I am NOT always comfortable letting my husband be the leader, and it's NOT always comfortable to submit in the manner the Bible tells me to. And that's not my husband's fault, it's me wanting to be the boss sometimes.

I guess what I'm getting at with this comfort level thing is that it's not going to always be an easy, "comfortable" thing to do, following your husband. But I strongly, strongly feel that it should be done, anyway. I'm not talking about the strengths and weaknesses thing that was mentioned, or taking turns being the strong one in the relationship- I don't think that following, or submitting, has anything to do with either of those, really.

I think most of you have summed it up pretty well so far

I've thought this about you for a while, on other topics and for other reasons... I know you are a busy mom with much on your plate (though sometimes that plate is used as a pallet to mix paints on)... but this post, I can't not say it any more:
Cris, you totally should make the time to lead some women's Bible studies. Maybe for young moms, maybe for the teens or the post teens of your congregation. I don't know... but God has given you wisdom and understanding, as well as a life full of lessons learned that you can draw upon, all of which others could be benefiting from. Please give this some consideration.

 

[dashadow]

Good example, lil Christian.

When my husband was living he and I did not always agree, but he always asked for and respected my opinion. He did not lord anything over me or make me feel unimportant in the process. WHEN we disagreed re: big family decisions, we went with his decision, knowing that the accountability was his. And the very few times he was wrong there was no need to say so, as he felt worse about it than I did.

It's much like my relationship with Christ. I don't always understand why the Lord wants me to do/not do things, but I honor Him anyway knowing that He loves me and wants only the best for me. When you are married to a man that you trust with all that you are and know that he loves you and wants only the best for you, following is not hard. This is exactly why Christian ladies must carefully and prayerfully choose a husband. If you cannot trust him or are unsure of his ability to love/protect/care for you, keep walking. You have not yet found the right guy.

I learned VERY quickly that when a couple is trying to live as godly husband/wife, God has a way of giving a man wise counsel. If my man is praying about a thing and truly feels God leading him in one direction or another, you'd better know there is no way in the world I would want to put my foot in the way. I don't wanna end up in God's woodshed.

A very wise and thoughtful response, indeed!