Food for thought

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M

midwestbob

Guest
#1
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye

Have we (the church) allowed doctrine to make the word of God of none effect? With a couple thousand denominations all believing they have it right, wouldn’t it be in our best interest to seek out the truth of God’s Holy Word? What many people in today’s churches don’t realize is that the doctrines that they believe are traditional eschatological doctrine are in most case only 100 – 500 years old. So it would be in our best interest to research the roots of the doctrines we hold. Most churches (not all) are in agreement when it comes to the core doctrines, and issues of salvation, the number of interpretations of figurative language of the dreams and visions of prophecy are countless. Virtually all established in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The 19th century brought us:
Mary Eddy Baker - Christian Science
Joseph Smith - LDS Mormon
Charles Taze Russel – Jehovas witness
William Miller – Millerites
Edward Irving – irvingites
John Nelson Darby – dispensationalism futurism
Dr John Thomas – Christadelphians
George W. F. Hegel – Idealism
Madame Blavatsky – Theosophical society
Wescott and Hort – wrote corrupt 19th century minority Greek texts that is the basis of most modern bible versions.
United and Oneness Pentecostal Church – linked to several individuals
Pope Pious IX – 1854 dogma of immaculate conception

And the list goes on and on….. and it is most certainly not limited to the 19th century consider:
Constantine – 3rd-4th century - Roman church
Ribera – 16th century -futurists doctrine creator and seed for Darby’ doctrine
Alcazar – 17th century – preterist doctrine Preterism
Jean de Labadie - 17th century – millennial reign
Manuel De Lacunza – 17th century – middle man between Ribera and Darby


Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:

When I researched the views held by many of the former age I discovered that many believed prophecy unfolded over hundreds of years not just the last seven. Even most Christians and Jews look at the Old Testament prophecies that way. For example most recognize that Daniel’s beast/kingdoms were kingdoms that came to pass over hundreds of years.

Many scholars of the former ages believed that prophecy would unfold over hundreds of years, not just all in the first century or all in just the last seven years. Many Christians don’t hesitate to use a day as a year understanding for Daniel’s first 69 weeks. But then don’t hesitate to toss a proven method out the window when it comes to dealing with other days, months and year prophecies, especially when this line of thinking does not fit their doctrine. The application of sound principles of hermeneutics requires a consistent approach, rather then picking and choosing to match our doctrinal view.

Thieleman van Braght (the author of Martyr’s Mirror) wrote in pages 21-24; “a thousand two hundred and threescore days, which reckoned according to prophetic language means as many years…… let it be reckoned as it may, say we, as a very long period of time.”

Years later Matthew Henry came to the same conclusion, he wrote in his Commentary of the Whole Bible (Volume VI page 1157 column 1 paragraph 2) “if the beginning of that interval could be ascertained, this number of prophetic days, taking a day for a year, would give us a prospect of when the end might be.”

The Jamison, Faucett and Brown commentary “in the wilderness ’a thousand two hundred and threescore days. ‘In the wider sense we may either adopt the year-day theory of 1260 years…..”

Many other scholars also believed this way. A few examples:
Augustine (AD 430)
Nahawndi (Jewish) (AD 8-9th century)
Jehoram (AD 10th century)
Abraham bar Hiyya (Jewish) (AD1136)
Arnold of Villanova (AD1292)
Tichonius (AD 380)
Joachim of Floris (AD 1202)
John Wycliff (AD c.1379)
Nicolas of Cusa (AD c. 1452)
Martin Luther (AD 1522)
Phillip Melanchton (AD 1543)
Johan Funck (AD 1558)
James 1 of England (AD 1600)
Sir Isaac Newton (AD 1727)


While those of the former age may have understood how to interpret prophecy maybe they were not in aposition to do so.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end.

There are 2 main schools of thought when it comes to Biblical eschatology. On one hand you have the futurists who believe most prophecy about the second coming occurs in the last 7 years. On the other hand you have partial preterism, which believes that most, if not all prophecy was fulfilled in the first century.

A most interesting observation in regard to the two most popular eschatologies in the 20th-21st century church - futurism and partial-preterism - is that these doctrines eliminate the possibility that Mohammed could be THE false prophet mentioned in the book of Revelation! This in spite of Mohammed's 1400 year record of success, with approximately 1/4 of mankind following Mohammed’s antichrist religion in today’s world (and how many billion since it’s inception). It shouldn't come as a surprise then, that those who follow these two eschatologies must each consider the other to be virtually 100% wrong in regard to their understanding of the book of Revelation (after chapter 3) because a 1900 year gulf divides the two views. Could both views be wrong?

If by chance we are truly in “the time of the end’ and some from the former age are correct in their beliefs about interpreting prophecy, then maybe we are looking through the wrong end of the telescope. Many of the Jews thought they understood prophecy, but when Christ stood in front of them many did not recognize Him? Why? In some cases the spirit of slumber, but that only explains some. I suspect, preconceived notions, may have blinded many of the others.

"The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton

“Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that expectation they are reserved. Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe”. - Matthew Henry

If we truly fear making the word of God of none effect then maybe it s time to set aside our doctrinal glasses and reexamine the word of God from the other end of the telescope to see if maybe we have been so blinded by our doctrinal glasses that we missed the fulfillment of scripture that has unfolded right in front of us.
 
Oct 22, 2011
628
7
18
#2
In light of the various discussions being discussed today I thought this should be revisited.

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#3
'that we missed the fulfillment of scripture that has unfolded right in front of us. " would you care to elaborate?